[DeTomaso] By-Laws (Re: POCA Election and email voting)

Julian Kift julian_kift at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 6 17:15:35 EST 2014


I was going to install an MSD ignition, but as all modern electronic methods are now banned by POCA I'll have to stick to a dual spark and points ;)

> From: edducati at mac.com
> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 15:04:19 -0700
> To: terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] By-Laws  (Re:  POCA Election and email voting)
> 
> I think, if you send an email which is in fact an electronic mail and it passes within the border of the U.S. It is now legally US mail. This is a minimum of first class or better, maybe even priority if you make it so in the email as high priority, only its delivered in milliseconds.
> 
> And the electronic signature makes it official.
> 
> I just made that up, but makes sense to me, and will certainly spark more debate.
> 
> Hahaha
> 
> :-)
> 
> Ed
> 
> Ps. Don't kill me just just trying to make people smile.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 5
> 
> > On Dec 6, 2014, at 12:59, Himes, Terry (397C) <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> > 
> > I agree with both.   You can add your own certified signature to the PDF.  Which is what I did.
> > I filled it in with PDF edit, did the Adobe Signature and Certification.  Then sent it via email.
> > 
> > I don't do paper any more.  It's silly.   Long gone are Faxes, Transparencies and Dodo Birds.  ;-))
> > (I threw out my home printer years ago. I wasn't going to pay HP another penny for ink Grrr!. ;-)
> > 
> > Go electronic!  The only way.
> > 
> > Terry
> > 
> > 
> > Terry W. Himes
> > JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> > InSight Sequence Team Lead
> > Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
> > Phone: (818) 393-6261
> > Cell:     (818) 653-8213
> > Fax:     (818) 393-3147
> > thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
> > 
> > ________________________________________
> > From: DeTomaso [detomaso-bounces at poca.com] on behalf of Asa Jay Laughton [asajay at asajay.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 11:18 AM
> > To: De Tomaso List
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] By-Laws  (Re:  POCA Election and email voting)
> > 
> > I'm rather with Julian on this interpretation.  It's really item L that
> > gets specific, that votes may only be on the original ballot.  But the
> > latest ballot was on a PDF, ergo... it should be returned as a PDF.  :)
> > 
> > Was the original ballot sent in accordance with the by-laws?  It was
> > included with the newsletter this year (thank you for that), but was it
> > mailed using First Class mail?  Or media mail?  Or bulk?  I don't
> > remember and I throw away the envelope.
> > 
> > Even if they were sent correctly, the only stipulation in item K is to
> > follow the return "instructions."  Well, those instructions -could- be
> > to snail mail them, email them, carve them in stone and deliver by horse
> > and cart, or spit in the wind.
> > 
> > It would seem, with the accidental omission on this year's ballot that
> > is now being compensated for by the pdf ballot, that official
> > instruction could be modified to accommodate emailing of the original
> > PDF ballot back to the official ballot counter.  After all, if we wish
> > to try and adhere to item L, which states an official ballot needs to be
> > returned... well, the official ballot was a pdf.  :)
> > 
> > I think this needs one or more POCA Board members to step in and make an
> > administrative decision; preferably the President.
> > 
> > I'm just sayin'
> > Asa Jay
> > 
> > 
> > Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> > &  Shelley Marie
> > Spokane, WA
> > ******************************
> > http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> > http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> > http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> > 
> > 
> >> On 12/6/2014 10:23 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
> >> All I see is in (k) is a requirement to send out ballots with a
> >> pre-printed return envelope and as to ballot return it states "if
> >> applicable, together with instructions for their return to the
> >> Election Committee and containing the date that the ballots must be
> >> postmarked and/or received to be eligible to be counted"
> >> 
> >> "if applicable, together with instructions for their return" I don't
> >> have a copy of my newsletter as I'm in Canada, does it explicitly say
> >> ballots have to be returned by USPS mail in the pre-printed envelope
> >> provided in the newsletter? I can scan the envelope too if it helps
> >> your overcome your bureaucracy.
> >> "date that ballots must be postmarked and/or received to be eligible
> >> to be counted" would imply that a postmark is not necessarily
> >> required, therefore couldbe delivered by such other means as hand
> >> delivered, email etc.
> >> 
> >> Julian
> >> *POCA*: *P*olitics like*O*bama; *C*onspiracies*A*bound
> >> 
> >>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 09:57:05 -0800
> >>> From: asajay at asajay.com
> >>> To: detomaso at poca.com
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] By-Laws (Re: POCA Election and email voting)
> >>> 
> >>> The POCA By-Laws are published publicly for all to see:
> >>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/club/by-laws
> >>> 
> >>> Note section 4. Elections:
> >>> Subsection (e):
> >>> (e) It shall be the function of the Election Committee to contact
> >>> individuals nominated for office; to verify their availability for
> >>> office; to verify that they are members in good standing both at the
> >>> time of their nomination and, if successful, at the time of their
> >>> election; to solicit additional nominees if warranted; to prepare, mail
> >>> and receive ballots; to verify eligibility of both Regular and
> >> Associate
> >>> members for voting; to count the valid votes; and to announce the
> >>> successful candidates;
> >>> 
> >>> and subsection (k) through (n):
> >>> 
> >>> (k) On October 1st, ballots and pre-printed return envelopes are to be
> >>> provided to Regular members via first-class U.S. mail, with space
> >>> provided on the ballot for voting by both the Regular member and the
> >>> designated Associate member, if applicable, together with instructions
> >>> for their return to the Election Committee and containing the date that
> >>> the ballots must be postmarked and/or received to be eligible to be
> >> counted;
> >>> 
> >>> (l) Voting shall be by secret written ballot and only on the original
> >>> ballot form as provided by POCA;
> >>> 
> >>> (m) Only Regular and Associate members in good standing shall be
> >>> entitled to vote;
> >>> 
> >>> (n) Only Associate members who are specifically designated as such by
> >>> Regular members will be entitled to vote;
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I would agree the methods could
> >>> change now that we're in the 21st century, but it will take a change to
> >>> the by-laws, which has it's own problems.
> >>> 
> >>> Asa Jay
> >>> 
> >>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> >>> & Shelley Marie
> >>> Spokane, WA
> >>> ******************************
> >>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> >>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> >>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>> On 12/6/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Moore wrote:
> >>>> People, All.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Come on it is 2014, damn near 15.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Just because I have a 40 year old car, it should not mean i vote bu
> >>>> snail mail.
> >>>> 
> >>>> John Buckman, I thought we covered this off Thursday night.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I completely agree with Julian.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Bill Moore
> >>>> 
> >>>> Incendium Supply
> >>>> 
> >>>> Calgary
> >>>> 
> >>>> -------- Original message --------
> >>>> 
> >>>> From: Julian Kift
> >>>> 
> >>>> Date:2014-12-06 10:30 AM (GMT-07:00)
> >>>> 
> >>>> To: cengles at cox.net,detomaso at poca.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
> >>>> 
> >>>> Chuck,
> >>>> Can you point us to where the bylaws specifically state that ballots
> >>>> have to be returned via US Mail? I see where ballots must be sent out
> >>>> via such means or as later amended within a newsletter, but no
> >>>> requirement that they have to be returned by such. This would actually
> >>>> preclude all of us outside the US that are members in good standing.
> >>>> I would sincerely hope that my PDF vote with my member number and
> >>>> signature that I emailed to you will be counted or I am afraid I shall
> >>>> be voting with my feet next time my membership comes due.
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> Julian
> >>>> From: cengles at cox.net
> >>>> To: detomaso at poca.com
> >>>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:14:35 -0600
> >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
> >>>> Dear Forum,
> >>>> The bylaws state that only mailed ballots are
> >>>> acceptable.
> >>>> At this time the bylaws do not permit email voting.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sincerely, Chuck Engles
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>> Chuck,
> >>>> Can you point us to where the bylaws specifically state that ballots
> >>>> have to be returned via US Mail? I see where ballots must be sent
> >>>> out
> >>>> via such means or as later amended within a newsletter, but no
> >>>> requirement that they have to be returned by such. This would
> >>>> actually
> >>>> preclude all of us outside the US that are members in good standing.
> >>>> I would sincerely hope that my PDF vote with my member number and
> >>>> signature that I emailed to you will be counted or I am afraid I
> >>>> shall
> >>>> be voting with my feet next time my membership comes due.
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> Julian
> >>>> From: cengles at cox.net
> >>>> To: detomaso at poca.com
> >>>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:14:35 -0600
> >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
> >>>> Dear Forum,
> >>>> The bylaws state that only mailed ballots are
> >>>> acceptable.
> >>>> At this time the bylaws do not permit email voting.
> >>>> Sincerely, Chuck Engles
> >>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
> >>>> Managed
> >>>> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> 
> >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>> 
> >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> -----
> >>>> No virus found in this message.
> >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8691 - Release Date:
> >> 12/06/14
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> 
> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>> 
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >> 
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8691 - Release Date: 12/06/14
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
   I was going to install an MSD ignition, but as all modern electronic
   methods are now banned by POCA I'll have to stick to a dual spark and
   points ;)
   > From: edducati at mac.com
   > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 15:04:19 -0700
   > To: terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov
   > CC: detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] By-Laws (Re: POCA Election and email voting)
   >
   > I think, if you send an email which is in fact an electronic mail and
   it passes within the border of the U.S. It is now legally US mail. This
   is a minimum of first class or better, maybe even priority if you make
   it so in the email as high priority, only its delivered in
   milliseconds.
   >
   > And the electronic signature makes it official.
   >
   > I just made that up, but makes sense to me, and will certainly spark
   more debate.
   >
   > Hahaha
   >
   > :-)
   >
   > Ed
   >
   > Ps. Don't kill me just just trying to make people smile.
   >
   >
   > Sent from my iPhone 5
   >
   > > On Dec 6, 2014, at 12:59, Himes, Terry (397C)
   <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
   > >
   > > I agree with both. You can add your own certified signature to the
   PDF. Which is what I did.
   > > I filled it in with PDF edit, did the Adobe Signature and
   Certification. Then sent it via email.
   > >
   > > I don't do paper any more. It's silly. Long gone are Faxes,
   Transparencies and Dodo Birds. ;-))
   > > (I threw out my home printer years ago. I wasn't going to pay HP
   another penny for ink Grrr!. ;-)
   > >
   > > Go electronic! The only way.
   > >
   > > Terry
   > >
   > >
   > > Terry W. Himes
   > > JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
   > > InSight Sequence Team Lead
   > > Rosetta/MEX Sequence Team Lead
   > > Phone: (818) 393-6261
   > > Cell: (818) 653-8213
   > > Fax: (818) 393-3147
   > > thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
   > >
   > > ________________________________________
   > > From: DeTomaso [detomaso-bounces at poca.com] on behalf of Asa Jay
   Laughton [asajay at asajay.com]
   > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2014 11:18 AM
   > > To: De Tomaso List
   > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] By-Laws (Re: POCA Election and email
   voting)
   > >
   > > I'm rather with Julian on this interpretation. It's really item L
   that
   > > gets specific, that votes may only be on the original ballot. But
   the
   > > latest ballot was on a PDF, ergo... it should be returned as a PDF.
   :)
   > >
   > > Was the original ballot sent in accordance with the by-laws? It was
   > > included with the newsletter this year (thank you for that), but
   was it
   > > mailed using First Class mail? Or media mail? Or bulk? I don't
   > > remember and I throw away the envelope.
   > >
   > > Even if they were sent correctly, the only stipulation in item K is
   to
   > > follow the return "instructions." Well, those instructions -could-
   be
   > > to snail mail them, email them, carve them in stone and deliver by
   horse
   > > and cart, or spit in the wind.
   > >
   > > It would seem, with the accidental omission on this year's ballot
   that
   > > is now being compensated for by the pdf ballot, that official
   > > instruction could be modified to accommodate emailing of the
   original
   > > PDF ballot back to the official ballot counter. After all, if we
   wish
   > > to try and adhere to item L, which states an official ballot needs
   to be
   > > returned... well, the official ballot was a pdf. :)
   > >
   > > I think this needs one or more POCA Board members to step in and
   make an
   > > administrative decision; preferably the President.
   > >
   > > I'm just sayin'
   > > Asa Jay
   > >
   > >
   > > Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
   > > & Shelley Marie
   > > Spokane, WA
   > > ******************************
   > > http://www.racingagainstautism.com
   > > http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   > > http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
   > >
   > >
   > >> On 12/6/2014 10:23 AM, Julian Kift wrote:
   > >> All I see is in (k) is a requirement to send out ballots with a
   > >> pre-printed return envelope and as to ballot return it states "if
   > >> applicable, together with instructions for their return to the
   > >> Election Committee and containing the date that the ballots must
   be
   > >> postmarked and/or received to be eligible to be counted"
   > >>
   > >> "if applicable, together with instructions for their return" I
   don't
   > >> have a copy of my newsletter as I'm in Canada, does it explicitly
   say
   > >> ballots have to be returned by USPS mail in the pre-printed
   envelope
   > >> provided in the newsletter? I can scan the envelope too if it
   helps
   > >> your overcome your bureaucracy.
   > >> "date that ballots must be postmarked and/or received to be
   eligible
   > >> to be counted" would imply that a postmark is not necessarily
   > >> required, therefore couldbe delivered by such other means as hand
   > >> delivered, email etc.
   > >>
   > >> Julian
   > >> *POCA*: *P*olitics like*O*bama; *C*onspiracies*A*bound
   > >>
   > >>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 09:57:05 -0800
   > >>> From: asajay at asajay.com
   > >>> To: detomaso at poca.com
   > >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] By-Laws (Re: POCA Election and email voting)
   > >>>
   > >>> The POCA By-Laws are published publicly for all to see:
   > >>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/club/by-laws
   > >>>
   > >>> Note section 4. Elections:
   > >>> Subsection (e):
   > >>> (e) It shall be the function of the Election Committee to contact
   > >>> individuals nominated for office; to verify their availability
   for
   > >>> office; to verify that they are members in good standing both at
   the
   > >>> time of their nomination and, if successful, at the time of their
   > >>> election; to solicit additional nominees if warranted; to
   prepare, mail
   > >>> and receive ballots; to verify eligibility of both Regular and
   > >> Associate
   > >>> members for voting; to count the valid votes; and to announce the
   > >>> successful candidates;
   > >>>
   > >>> and subsection (k) through (n):
   > >>>
   > >>> (k) On October 1st, ballots and pre-printed return envelopes are
   to be
   > >>> provided to Regular members via first-class U.S. mail, with space
   > >>> provided on the ballot for voting by both the Regular member and
   the
   > >>> designated Associate member, if applicable, together with
   instructions
   > >>> for their return to the Election Committee and containing the
   date that
   > >>> the ballots must be postmarked and/or received to be eligible to
   be
   > >> counted;
   > >>>
   > >>> (l) Voting shall be by secret written ballot and only on the
   original
   > >>> ballot form as provided by POCA;
   > >>>
   > >>> (m) Only Regular and Associate members in good standing shall be
   > >>> entitled to vote;
   > >>>
   > >>> (n) Only Associate members who are specifically designated as
   such by
   > >>> Regular members will be entitled to vote;
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I would agree the methods
   could
   > >>> change now that we're in the 21st century, but it will take a
   change to
   > >>> the by-laws, which has it's own problems.
   > >>>
   > >>> Asa Jay
   > >>>
   > >>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
   > >>> & Shelley Marie
   > >>> Spokane, WA
   > >>> ******************************
   > >>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
   > >>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
   > >>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
   > >>>
   > >>>
   > >>>> On 12/6/2014 9:44 AM, Bill Moore wrote:
   > >>>> People, All.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Come on it is 2014, damn near 15.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Just because I have a 40 year old car, it should not mean i vote
   bu
   > >>>> snail mail.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> John Buckman, I thought we covered this off Thursday night.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> I completely agree with Julian.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Cheers,
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Bill Moore
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Incendium Supply
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Calgary
   > >>>>
   > >>>> -------- Original message --------
   > >>>>
   > >>>> From: Julian Kift
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Date:2014-12-06 10:30 AM (GMT-07:00)
   > >>>>
   > >>>> To: cengles at cox.net,detomaso at poca.com
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Chuck,
   > >>>> Can you point us to where the bylaws specifically state that
   ballots
   > >>>> have to be returned via US Mail? I see where ballots must be
   sent out
   > >>>> via such means or as later amended within a newsletter, but no
   > >>>> requirement that they have to be returned by such. This would
   actually
   > >>>> preclude all of us outside the US that are members in good
   standing.
   > >>>> I would sincerely hope that my PDF vote with my member number
   and
   > >>>> signature that I emailed to you will be counted or I am afraid I
   shall
   > >>>> be voting with my feet next time my membership comes due.
   > >>>> Sincerely,
   > >>>> Julian
   > >>>> From: cengles at cox.net
   > >>>> To: detomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:14:35 -0600
   > >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
   > >>>> Dear Forum,
   > >>>> The bylaws state that only mailed ballots are
   > >>>> acceptable.
   > >>>> At this time the bylaws do not permit email voting.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Sincerely, Chuck Engles
   > >>>> _______________________________________________
   > >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
   > >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >>>> Chuck,
   > >>>> Can you point us to where the bylaws specifically state that
   ballots
   > >>>> have to be returned via US Mail? I see where ballots must be
   sent
   > >>>> out
   > >>>> via such means or as later amended within a newsletter, but no
   > >>>> requirement that they have to be returned by such. This would
   > >>>> actually
   > >>>> preclude all of us outside the US that are members in good
   standing.
   > >>>> I would sincerely hope that my PDF vote with my member number
   and
   > >>>> signature that I emailed to you will be counted or I am afraid I
   > >>>> shall
   > >>>> be voting with my feet next time my membership comes due.
   > >>>> Sincerely,
   > >>>> Julian
   > >>>> From: cengles at cox.net
   > >>>> To: detomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:14:35 -0600
   > >>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] POCA Election and email voting
   > >>>> Dear Forum,
   > >>>> The bylaws state that only mailed ballots are
   > >>>> acceptable.
   > >>>> At this time the bylaws do not permit email voting.
   > >>>> Sincerely, Chuck Engles
   > >>>> _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum
   > >>>> Managed
   > >>>> by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >>>> _______________________________________________
   > >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
   > >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >>>>
   > >>>>
   > >>>>
   > >>>> _______________________________________________
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >>>>
   > >>>> DeTomaso mailing list
   > >>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >>>>
   > >>>>
   > >>>> -----
   > >>>> No virus found in this message.
   > >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   > >>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8691 - Release Date:
   > >> 12/06/14
   > >>>
   > >>> _______________________________________________
   > >>>
   > >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >>>
   > >>> DeTomaso mailing list
   > >>> DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >>
   > >> No virus found in this message.
   > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
   > >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4235/8691 - Release Date:
   12/06/14
   > >
   > > _______________________________________________
   > >
   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >
   > > DeTomaso mailing list
   > > DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > > _______________________________________________
   > >
   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >
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