[DeTomaso] New engine

[MikeLDrew at aol.com]

In a message dated 12/4/14 20 52 32, npdrs at maui.net writes:


> 
> thanks for the really helpful reply full of information!
>  
> OK, understand your points on the airflow in the intake area, so will for 
> now just settle with the regular air-cleaner without air box and ducts; any 
> suggestions on setup that works well; was looking into those 
> "flow-control" drop-down housings?
> 
>>>I seem to remember reading tests in magazines where they evaluated those 
mesh intake manifold tops, and found they actually HURT performance, by 
disrupting the airflow or something?   They concluded a conventional round air 
cleaner with a solid lid was the preferred setup.   You want a drop base, 
but you need to keep in mind that you need to have clearance above the top of 
the carb for the air to flow into it, so your air cleaner can't be too 
short.   You don't need an enormous amount of room though; I think something 
surprisingly little like 1/2 inch was thought to be enough?   Dan will probably 
have a much better idea there however.   

> >I got a tall single plane intake plus 1inch carburetor spacer and there 
> is no screen on the car as I bought it, so there is no problem with space 
> there, but am worried of interface with the deck-lid in case the filter is 
> dropped down a lot.
> 
>>>I don't think you'll have a problem.   In fact your big problem will be 
visibility, as you are setting yourself up to have very restricted vision to 
the rear with your carb/air cleaner sitting too high for comfort.   You 
might want to rethink the spacer.   It's a convenient place to put a takeoff 
for your power brake vacuum, but you may find it better to drill/tap a hole in 
the intake instead.   That one inch may give you a tiny change in 
horsepower (that is, it may move your torque curve up or down a few hundred rpm) but 
will probably be far more trouble than it's worth in terms of making the car 
unpleasant to drive.   I drove a Pantera with a really tall intake setup 
from London to Modena and back, and it was quite unnerving not being able to 
see ANYTHING out the rear view mirror, and instead having to rely solely on 
the side mirrors.
>  
> >Thanks for your suggestion on Pat Michal headers; I spoke to him today 
> and he has a set that would also bolt directly on my Yates heads, so this 
> will be best way to go.
> For stock look and good performance Pat suggested using actual Ansa 
> mufflers/pipes, but gutting them inside and replacing the front tube with 3inch 
> one that would mate to his headers.
> How could I tell if my Ansa mufflers are the ones with larger tips and no 
> resonator?
> 
>>>Uh...you would look at them? :>)   

99% of the pipes out there were made with resonators; only recent 
production versions have done away with them.   Attached is a photo of the 
current-production ANSA GTS muffler.   Note that the inside of the tip is perfectly 
smooth (as opposed to those with a resonator, which is filled with tiny 
holes).

Given the high cost of buying new mufflers ($1500 or so!), and given that 
you are already talking about whacking the front pipe off and replacing it, 
it seems to me the logical thing to do would be to just buy four replacement 
tips that have a larger inside diameter.   It's easy enough to find them 
with no resonator inside either, if that's what you prefer.   (I like how the 
resonator knocks the harshness from the exhaust note).

>In order to help financing this whole project I am looking into selling 
extra components that I got:

{snip}
>  
> Please if someone could help me with advice on reasonable prices I could 
> ask for those parts; they are all located in Munich, Germany.
> 
>>>There is a thriving community of Pantera owners in the Munich area, and 
most of them are totally nuts.   They are always building crazy engines like 
yours, so I'm sure there will be interest in buying these parts that you've 
already imported for them.   I've passed the info on to them and hopefully 
you'll hear something soon!

Mike

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   In a message dated 12/4/14 20 52 32, npdrs at maui.net writes:

     thanks for the really helpful reply full of information!

     OK, understand your points on the airflow in the intake area, so
     will for now just settle with the regular air-cleaner without air
     box and ducts; any suggestions on setup that works well; was looking
     into those "flow-control" drop-down housings?

   >>>I seem to remember reading tests in magazines where they evaluated
   those mesh intake manifold tops, and found they actually HURT
   performance, by disrupting the airflow or something?  They concluded a
   conventional round air cleaner with a solid lid was the preferred
   setup.  You want a drop base, but you need to keep in mind that you
   need to have clearance above the top of the carb for the air to flow
   into it, so your air cleaner can't be too short.  You don't need an
   enormous amount of room though; I think something surprisingly little
   like 1/2 inch was thought to be enough?  Dan will probably have a much
   better idea there however.

     >I got a tall single plane intake plus 1inch carburetor spacer and
     there is no screen on the car as I bought it, so there is no problem
     with space there, but am worried of interface with the deck-lid in
     case the filter is dropped down a lot.

   >>>I don't think you'll have a problem.  In fact your big problem will
   be visibility, as you are setting yourself up to have very restricted
   vision to the rear with your carb/air cleaner sitting too high for
   comfort.  You might want to rethink the spacer.  It's a convenient
   place to put a takeoff for your power brake vacuum, but you may find it
   better to drill/tap a hole in the intake instead.  That one inch may
   give you a tiny change in horsepower (that is, it may move your torque
   curve up or down a few hundred rpm) but will probably be far more
   trouble than it's worth in terms of making the car unpleasant to
   drive.  I drove a Pantera with a really tall intake setup from London
   to Modena and back, and it was quite unnerving not being able to see
   ANYTHING out the rear view mirror, and instead having to rely solely on
   the side mirrors.


     >Thanks for your suggestion on Pat Michal headers; I spoke to him
     today and he has a set that would also bolt directly on my Yates
     heads, so this will be best way to go.
     For stock look and good performance Pat suggested using actual Ansa
     mufflers/pipes, but gutting them inside and replacing the front tube
     with 3inch one that would mate to his headers.
     How could I tell if my Ansa mufflers are the ones with larger tips
     and no resonator?

   >>>Uh...you would look at them? :>)
   99% of the pipes out there were made with resonators; only recent
   production versions have done away with them.  Attached is a photo of
   the current-production ANSA GTS muffler.  Note that the inside of the
   tip is perfectly smooth (as opposed to those with a resonator, which is
   filled with tiny holes).
   Given the high cost of buying new mufflers ($1500 or so!), and given
   that you are already talking about whacking the front pipe off and
   replacing it, it seems to me the logical thing to do would be to just
   buy four replacement tips that have a larger inside diameter.  It's
   easy enough to find them with no resonator inside either, if that's
   what you prefer.  (I like how the resonator knocks the harshness from
   the exhaust note).
   >In order to help financing this whole project I am looking into
   selling extra components that I got:
   {snip}


     Please if someone could help me with advice on reasonable prices I
     could ask for those parts; they are all located in Munich, Germany.

   >>>There is a thriving community of Pantera owners in the Munich area,
   and most of them are totally nuts.  They are always building crazy
   engines like yours, so I'm sure there will be interest in buying these
   parts that you've already imported for them.  I've passed the info on
   to them and hopefully you'll hear something soon!
   Mike
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