[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 122, Issue 20
Bob Lehmann
bob at longwood2.com
Wed Aug 20 15:23:50 EDT 2014
Windshield wipers, windshield washer! You mean you take your Pantera out in the rain?
On Aug 20, 2014, at 3:00 PM, detomaso-request at poca.com wrote:
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part # (David Nunn)
> 2. Re: ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part # (Mike Drew)
> 3. Re: ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part # (David Nunn)
> 4. Back space (mark skwarek)
> 5. Re: Back space (Mike Drew)
> 6. Re: Back space (Asa Jay Laughton)
> 7. Re: Back space (Boyd Casey)
> 8. Must ask again Need Some Help Here (SOBill at aol.com)
> 9. Re: Must ask again Need Some Help Here (Curt Hall)
> 10. Must ask again Need Some Help Here (wolfgang geisler)
> 11. Freight company (Mikael)
> 12. Re: Freight company (mark skwarek)
> 13. Re: Back space (B Hower)
> 14. Re: McLain Automotive (mark skwarek)
> 15. Re: Flex-a-lite question (Jeff Detrich)
> 16. Re: Flex-a-lite question (Boyd Casey)
> 17. Looking for a particular picture from the book "Panteras For
> the Road" by Rassmussen. (DeTomaso Pantera)
> 18. Re: Flex-a-lite question (Larry - Ohio Time)
> 19. "Getting back" into the game (DeTomaso Pantera)
> 20. Re: Looking for a particular picture from the book "Panteras
> For the Road" by Rassmussen. (jgkrenton at comcast.net)
> 21. Re: McLain Automotive (Daniel C Jones)
> 22. Re: Flex-a-lite question (Jeff Detrich)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:21:52 -0700
> From: "David Nunn" <dnunn at telus.net>
> To: <detomaso at poca.com>, <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part #
> Message-ID: <001b01cfbbe2$d5c6eae0$8154c0a0$@telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Only $5.73 at Rockauto.com !
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Only $5.73 at Rockauto.com !
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:33:26 -0700
> From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: David Nunn <dnunn at telus.net>
> Cc: "<detomaso at poca.com>" <detomaso at poca.com>,
> "<fresnofinches at aol.com>" <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part #
> Message-ID: <886F5048-4470-4FBA-9334-AEE6CE1260E4 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Sounds good! But can you provide the part number or reference. Rock auto has a LOT of parts to choose from! :)
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:21, "David Nunn" <dnunn at telus.net> wrote:
>
>> Only $5.73 at Rockauto.com !
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:39:42 -0700
> From: "David Nunn" <dnunn at telus.net>
> To: "'Mike Drew'" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, <detomaso at poca.com>,
> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part #
> Message-ID: <001a01cfbbe5$53530b90$f9f922b0$@telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mike,
>
> I just went to the Rockauto.com web site and did a Part # search for the A/C
> Delco part # (23049841).
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:33 PM
> To: David Nunn
> Cc: <detomaso at poca.com>; <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF drain plugs - common AC/Delco part #
>
> Sounds good! But can you provide the part number or reference. Rock auto
> has a LOT of parts to choose from! :)
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:21, "David Nunn" <dnunn at telus.net> wrote:
>
>> Only $5.73 at Rockauto.com !
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:18:46 -0700
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Message-ID:
> <1408504726.20741.YahooMailNeo at web140905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
> -------------- next part --------------
> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:44:08 -0700
> From: Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Message-ID: <6B90DD12-2574-4C01-B1E6-B19FE64B52BF at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Mark,
>
> What kind of car are you talking about?
>
> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably too narrow for the rear.
>
> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>
> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought for his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to demonstrate the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have been quietly for sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 21:24:11 -0700
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Message-ID: <53F422EB.60303 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Gee Mike, why all the scrutiny here? When -you- wanted to know the
> right sizes you simply demanded somebody give you the right sizes and I
> might point out pushed back when others tried to understand exactly what
> you were doing and tried to give you some sizing pointers. so why can't
> you just tell him what the right backspace is supposed to be for an 18x9
> wheel? What gives here?
>
> Asa Jay
> I'm running 18x9.5 with a 6" backspace and plenty of clearance. I think
> we could safely say an 18x9 could have anything from a 5.5" to a 6"
> backspace and clear, but the larger backspace will put the tire further
> into the fender which might look funny.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 8/19/2014 8:44 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> What kind of car are you talking about?
>>
>> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably too narrow for the rear.
>>
>> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>>
>> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought for his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to demonstrate the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have been quietly for sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date: 08/15/14
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 01:39:31 -0400
> From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> To: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Message-ID:
> <CALsQ=cvSP8jwUPG1cTNfkFOK4+=f3T72+sZ_7awcU+AbyKe6ug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have 18" front wheels wheels with Nitto NT-05's that are 9.57" wide.
> They do rub on full lock but I have never had my wheels turned to full lock
> except when making a u turn or three point turn. I have 19" Nitto NT-05
> 335/30 that are 13.31"'s wide and there are no interference problems. ((my
> car is a 73 narrow body) When I buy new front tires I will get 18" 225/40's
> that are 9.06" wide.I have my back space and offset written down somewhere,
> but as I have mentioned before I had my wheels made by "True forged wheels"
> made in USA and they sent me test fit wheels made to my specs to be sure
> they fit properly. They have done several Panteras which they have featured
> on their web page ( along with my car) My car is the white one with the red
> brembo calipers on Pg 2 of the Pantera gallery .
> http://trueforgedwheels.com/#/content/start/
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Gee Mike, why all the scrutiny here? When -you- wanted to know the
>> right sizes you simply demanded somebody give you the right sizes and I
>> might point out pushed back when others tried to understand exactly what
>> you were doing and tried to give you some sizing pointers. so why can't
>> you just tell him what the right backspace is supposed to be for an 18x9
>> wheel? What gives here?
>>
>> Asa Jay
>> I'm running 18x9.5 with a 6" backspace and plenty of clearance. I think
>> we could safely say an 18x9 could have anything from a 5.5" to a 6"
>> backspace and clear, but the larger backspace will put the tire further
>> into the fender which might look funny.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>>
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> & Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>
>>
>> On 8/19/2014 8:44 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> What kind of car are you talking about?
>>>
>>> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably too
>> narrow for the rear.
>>>
>>> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>>>
>>> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought for
>> his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to demonstrate
>> the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have been quietly for
>> sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mark
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date: 08/15/14
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> I have 18" front A wheels wheels with Nitto NT-05's that are 9.57"
> wide. They do rub on full lock but I have never had my wheels turned to
> full lock except when making a u turn or three point turn. I have 19"
> Nitto NT-05 335/30 that are 13.31"'s wide and there are no interference
> problems. ((my car is a 73 narrow body) When I buy new front tires I
> will get 18" 225/40's that are 9.06" wide.I have my back space and
> offset written down somewhere, but as I have mentioned before I had my
> wheels made by "True forged wheels" made in USA and they sent me test
> fit wheels made to my specs to be sure they fit properly. They have
> done several Panteras which they have featured on their web page (
> along with my car) My car is the white one with the red brembo calipers
> on Pg 2 of the Pantera gallery A
> .[1]http://trueforgedwheels.com/#/content/start/
> Boyd
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Asa Jay Laughton
> <[2]asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
>
> Gee Mike, why all the scrutiny here?A When -you- wanted to know the
> right sizes you simply demanded somebody give you the right sizes
> and I
> might point out pushed back when others tried to understand exactly
> what
> you were doing and tried to give you some sizing pointers.A so why
> can't
> you just tell him what the right backspace is supposed to be for an
> 18x9
> wheel?A What gives here?
> AsaA Jay
> I'm running 18x9.5 with a 6" backspace and plenty of clearance.A I
> think
> we could safely say an 18x9 could have anything from a 5.5" to a 6"
> backspace and clear, but the larger backspace will put the tire
> further
> into the fender which might look funny.
> AsaA Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [3]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> [4]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> [5]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
> On 8/19/2014 8:44 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> What kind of car are you talking about?
>>
>> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably
> too narrow for the rear.
>>
>> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>>
>> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought
> for his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to
> demonstrate the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have
> been quietly for sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
> <[6]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A A Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>>> A A Thanks,
>>> A A Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - [11]www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date:
> 08/15/14
>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://trueforgedwheels.com/#/content/start/
> 2. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 3. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
> 4. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 5. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 11. http://www.avg.com/
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 01:56:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: SOBill at aol.com
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Must ask again Need Some Help Here
> Message-ID: <36251.16259284.4125928a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray adequately over
>
> the Pantera windshield?
>
> Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
>
> Anyone?
>
>
> Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
>
> Thanks,
>
> SOBill
>
>
>
> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> Have fun today!
> SOBill
> -------------- next part --------------
>
>
>
>
> Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray adequately
> over
> the Pantera windshield?
> Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
> Anyone?
>
>
>
>
>
> Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
> Thanks,
> SOBill
>
>
>
> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> Have fun today!
> SOBill
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 23:30:04 -0700
> From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "SOBill at aol.com" <SOBill at aol.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Must ask again Need Some Help Here
> Message-ID:
> <1408516204.52813.YahooMailNeo at web184702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sobill...
>
> Years ago I thought I'd see if my windshield washer on my 73?worked! So I cleaned?things up, filled the washer tank with water, made sure I had power to the pump and hit the button! Crap...few drops of water at the nozzle! What the hell! So I cleaned the nozzle with a needle and tried again! This time it shot water over the windshield! I was able to adjust the nozzle?to hit the windshield! Yeah
>
> But...having the washer work doesn't do me much good since I haven't?had the wipers on the Car since I've had it!
>
> Curt?????
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:56 PM, SOBill via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ? Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray adequately
> ? over
> ? the Pantera windshield?
> ? Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
> ? Anyone?
>
>
>
>
>
> ? Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
> ? Thanks,
> ? SOBill
>
>
>
> ? The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> ? Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> ? Have fun today!
> ? SOBill
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> Sobill...
> Years ago I thought I'd see if my windshield washer on my 73 worked! So
> I cleaned things up, filled the washer tank with water, made sure I had
> power to the pump and hit the button! Crap...few drops of water at the
> nozzle! What the hell! So I cleaned the nozzle with a needle and tried
> again! This time it shot water over the windshield! I was able to
> adjust the nozzle to hit the windshield! Yeah
> But...having the washer work doesn't do me much good since I
> haven't had the wipers on the Car since I've had it!
> Curt
> On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:56 PM, SOBill via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray
> adequately
> over
> the Pantera windshield?
> Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
> Anyone?
> Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
> Thanks,
> SOBill
> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> Have fun today!
> SOBill
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:44:07 +0200
> From: wolfgang geisler <wgeisler66 at gmail.com>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com List" <detomaso at poca.com>, SOBill at aol.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Must ask again Need Some Help Here
> Message-ID:
> <CAKj2CTHUw9d8LfCb+WSZMXPNjZAmsBtLXJeGBGNtMtMmmXk3Yg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Bill,
> mine is working (or at least it *was* working a few months ago when I have
> tried for the last time). I`ll try to do a small video on the weekend and
> will send you a link. OK?
> Wolfgang
> #5891
>
>
>
> *SOBill at aol.com <http://aol.com>* SOBill at aol.com
> <detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20Must%20ask%20again%20%20Need%20Some%20Help%20Here&In-Reply-To=%3C36251.16259284.4125928a%40aol.com%3E>
> *Tue Aug 19 22:56:26 MST 2014*
>
>
> - Previous message: [DeTomaso] Back space
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray adequately over
>
> the Pantera windshield?
>
> Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
>
> Anyone?
>
>
> Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
>
> Thanks,
>
> SOBill
>
>
>
> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> Have fun today!
> SOBill
> -------------- next part --------------
> Bill,
> mine is working (or at least it was working a few months ago when I
> have tried for the last time). I`ll try to do a small video on the
> weekend and will send you a link. OK?
> Wolfgang
> #5891
> A
> A
> A
> SOBill at [1]aol.com [2]SOBill at aol.com
> Tue Aug 19 22:56:26 MST 2014
>
> * Previous message: [3][DeTomaso] Back space
> * Next message: [4][DeTomaso] Must ask again Need Some Help Here
> * Messages sorted by: [5][ date ] [6][ thread ] [7][ subject ] [8][
> author ]
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Do the Pantera Lucas windshield washer pumps actually spray adequately over
>
> the Pantera windshield?
>
> Have you actually seen this with your own eyes?
>
> Anyone?
>
>
> Shall I buy a NOS bottle and pump or ??????
>
> Thanks,
>
> SOBill
>
>
>
> The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> Have fun today!
> SOBill
>
> References
>
> 1. http://aol.com/
> 2. mailto:detomaso%40poca.com?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BDeTomaso%5D%20Must%20ask%20again%20%20Need%20Some%20Help%20Here&In-Reply-To=%3C36251.16259284.4125928a%40aol.com%3E
> 3. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/228465.html
> 4. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/228467.html
> 5. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/date.html#228466
> 6. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/thread.html#228466
> 7. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/subject.html#228466
> 8. http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/2014-August/author.html#228466
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 12:12:54 +0200
> From: "Mikael" <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> To: <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Freight company
> Message-ID: <024901cfbc5f$53a85710$faf90530$@mail.tele.dk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi
>
> I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta Georgia in
> a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>
> What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done, cheap and
> safe?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mvh/Regards
>
> Mikael
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi
>
> I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
> Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>
> What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
> cheap and safe?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Mvh/Regards
>
> Mikael
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 05:17:20 -0700
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> To: Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Freight company
> Message-ID:
> <1408537040.38156.YahooMailNeo at web140904.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00 by R&L Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>
>
>
> ? Hi
>
> ? I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
> ? Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>
> ? What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
> ? cheap and safe?
>
>
> ? Thanks
>
> ? Mvh/Regards
>
> ? Mikael
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00 by R&L
> Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
> Mark
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael
> <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
> Hi
> I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
> Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
> What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
> cheap and safe?
> Thanks
> Mvh/Regards
> Mikael
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [1]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [2]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 2. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 06:36:36 -0700
> From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
> To: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Message-ID:
> <1408541796.36304.YahooMailNeo at web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> If we agree that the OEM 10" has the correct outer tire edge to body fitment. Then one should be able to relate that to any wheel width and adjust back spacing accordingly. NO?
>
> ?
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
>
>
> Gee Mike, why all the scrutiny here?? When -you- wanted to know the
> right sizes you simply demanded somebody give you the right sizes and I
> might point out pushed back when others tried to understand exactly what
> you were doing and tried to give you some sizing pointers.? so why can't
> you just tell him what the right backspace is supposed to be for an 18x9
> wheel?? What gives here?
>
> Asa? Jay
> I'm running 18x9.5 with a 6" backspace and plenty of clearance.? I think
> we could safely say an 18x9 could have anything from a 5.5" to a 6"
> backspace and clear, but the larger backspace will put the tire further
> into the fender which might look funny.
>
> Asa? Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************? ?
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>
>
> On 8/19/2014 8:44 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> What kind of car are you talking about?
>>
>> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably too narrow for the rear.
>>
>> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>>
>> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought for his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to demonstrate the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have been quietly for sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ? Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>>> ? Thanks,
>>> ? Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date: 08/15/14
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> If we agree that the OEM 10" has the correct outer tire edge to body
> fitment. Then one should be able to relate that to any wheel width and
> adjust back spacing accordingly. NO?
>
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
> ! )
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Back space
> Gee Mike, why all the scrutiny here? When -you- wanted to know the
> right sizes you simply demanded somebody give you the right sizes and I
> might point out pushed back when others tried to understand exactly
> what
> you were doing and tried to give you some sizing pointers. so why
> can't
> you just tell him what the right backspace is supposed to be for an
> 18x9
> wheel? What gives here?
> Asa Jay
> I'm running 18x9.5 with a 6" backspace and plenty of clearance. I
> think
> we could safely say an 18x9 could have anything from a 5.5" to a 6"
> backspace and clear, but the larger backspace will put the tire further
> into the fender which might look funny.
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> & Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> [1]http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> [2]http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> [3]http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> On 8/19/2014 8:44 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso wrote:
>> Mark,
>>
>> What kind of car are you talking about?
>>
>> 17x9 is too wide to fit on the front of a stock Pantera and arguably
> too narrow for the rear.
>>
>> You want 17x8 front and either 17x10 or 17x11 in the rear.
>>
>> I have a set of 17x9 Mustang wheels that a poor guy in Europe bought
> for his Pantera. I mounted them on my car and sent him photos to
> demonstrate the error of his ways and he bailed out. The wheels have
> been quietly for sale--to the Mustang crowd--ever since.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 20:18, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
> <[4]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Considering 18x9 wheels. What back space is recommended?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mark
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [7]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4745 / Virus Database: 4007/8041 - Release Date:
> 08/15/14
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.racingagainstautism.com/
> 2. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 3. http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 07:01:34 -0700
> From: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> To: "cengles at cox.net" <cengles at cox.net>, "detomaso at poca.com"
> <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] McLain Automotive
> Message-ID:
> <1408543294.26355.YahooMailNeo at web140906.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Chuck,
> Here it is. Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
> I'll do a full write up a little later this week when I can find the
> time but some basics are:
> A 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with 3mm oil
> rings)
> A 6.125" Scat forged connecting rods
> A 3.75" stroke Scat forged crankshaft, internally balanced (Part
> Number: 4-351C-3750-6125)
> A 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
> A 11:1 compression
> A Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
> A 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash (0.024"
> and 0.026"), 110 LSA
> A Competition Cams solid roller lifters
> A PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with dampers
> A Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the intake,
> 601 lbs for the exhaust
> A Titanium retainers
> A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style
> crank combination
> A Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only with an
> 0.040" restrictor in the back of the left side galley
> A Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil pump
> drive shaft and Aviad Pantera pan
> A Clearances are .0025 mains .0022 rods using Federal Mogul mains and
> Clevite rod bearings
> A Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these
> clearances with the Scat forged steel crank.
> A Romac harmonic damper
> A Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
> A Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave)
> A 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
> A Jomar stud girdle
> A Manley guide plates
> A SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
> A Cooling system modifications
> A 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the back of
> the heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4 AN line
> from each head that tees together and runs to the suction side of the
> water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always pulls
> coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads
> A Cometic MLS head gaskets with Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
> A MSD Pro Billet distributor with bronze gear
> A Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range), AR 3910
> for race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
> A 30 degrees total timing
> A Precision Proformance high port Pantera headers
> A 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
> Mark runs his Pantera in open road races and rarely drives it on the
> street.A His ZF has the original gearing so we wanted something that
> would pull well from 3500 to 7000+ RPM.A I designed the cam to
> maximize the power between 4000 and 7000 RPM, with a torque peak at
> around 5000 RPM.A I designed several cams using the Reed ULX lobes and
> the one chosen was the smallest (lowest overlap) and had the best power
> below 6000 RPM, along with the flattest torque curve.A The Reed ULX
> lobes are older designs that are relatively easy on the valve train so
> work well in endurance racing and marine applications.A Dave spent
> some time modifying the A331 intake.A A 1" thick open spacer was
> milled to level the carb and welded to the intake.A On top of that,
> several 1" spacers with an HVH 1 inch merge spacer working best.
> Dynomation was predicting a little under 600 HP and usually
> under-predicts the so I thought we'd hit 600 HP.A Final results were
> 623.1 HP at 6900 RPM and and 521.6 ft-lbs at 5100 RPM running through
> the 4-into-1 Pantera headers with 2 1/2" pipes and mufflers.A The
> torque curve is really flat in the operating RPM range.
> More details to follow...
> Dan Jones
> ?
> ? Posts: 236?|?city, state or province, country: east haddam,
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:42 AM, "cengles at cox.net" <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Mark,
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ah, the McLain Shop.? I am curious about your experience.
> I anticipate that I will have them do some small work for me.? I was
> favorably impressed after a phone conversation with Dave.? Dan Jones'
> affliation is obviously a good sign.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? What did you have them do on your engine?? Did you have a
> good experience?
>
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Warmest regards,? Chuck Engles
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso wrote:
>
>> I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00 by R&L
>> Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael
>> <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ?? Hi
>>
>> ?? I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
>> ?? Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>>
>> ?? What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
>> ?? cheap and safe?
>>
>>
>> ?? Thanks
>>
>> ?? Mvh/Regards
>>
>> ?? Mikael
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> ? ? ? ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> -------------- next part --------------
> Chuck,
> Here it is.
>
> Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
> I'll do a full write up a little later this week when I can find the
> time but some basics are:
> A 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with 3mm oil
> rings)
> A 6.125" Scat forged connecting rods
> A 3.75" stroke Scat forged crankshaft, internally balanced (Part
> Number: 4-351C-3750-6125)
> A 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
> A 11:1 compression
> A Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
> A 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash (0.024"
> and 0.026"), 110 LSA
> A Competition Cams solid roller lifters
> A PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with dampers
> A Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the intake,
> 601 lbs for the exhaust
> A Titanium retainers
> A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style
> crank combination
> A Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only with an
> 0.040" restrictor in the back of the left side galley
> A Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil pump
> drive shaft and Aviad Pantera pan
> A Clearances are .0025 mains .0022 rods using Federal Mogul mains and
> Clevite rod bearings
> A Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these
> clearances with the Scat forged steel crank.
> A Romac harmonic damper
> A Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
> A Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave)
> A 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
> A Jomar stud girdle
> A Manley guide plates
> A SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
> A Cooling system modifications
> A 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the back of
> the heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4 AN line
> from each head that tees together and runs to the suction side of the
> water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always pulls
> coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads
> A Cometic MLS head gaskets with Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
> A MSD Pro Billet distributor with bronze gear
> A Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range), AR 3910
> for race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
> A 30 degrees total timing
> A Precision Proformance high port Pantera headers
> A 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
> Mark runs his Pantera in open road races and rarely drives it on the
> street.A His ZF has the original gearing so we wanted something that
> would pull well from 3500 to 7000+ RPM.A I designed the cam to
> maximize the power between 4000 and 7000 RPM, with a torque peak at
> around 5000 RPM.A I designed several cams using the Reed ULX lobes and
> the one chosen was the smallest (lowest overlap) and had the best power
> below 6000 RPM, along with the flattest torque curve.A The Reed ULX
> lobes are older designs that are relatively easy on the valve train so
> work well in endurance racing and marine applications.A Dave spent
> some time modifying the A331 intake.A A 1" thick open spacer was
> milled to level the carb and welded to the intake.A On top of that,
> several 1" spacers with an HVH 1 inch merge spacer working best.
> Dynomation was predicting a little under 600 HP and usually
> under-predicts the so I thought we'd hit 600 HP.A Final results were
> 623.1 HP at 6900 RPM and and 521.6 ft-lbs at 5100 RPM running through
> the 4-into-1 Pantera headers with 2 1/2" pipes and mufflers.A The
> torque curve is really flat in the operating RPM range.
> More details to follow...
> Dan Jones
> i
>
>
>
> [1]Posts: 236 | city, state or province, country: east haddam,
>
> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:42 AM, "cengles at cox.net"
> <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Mark,
> Ah, the McLain Shop. I am curious about your experience.
> I anticipate that I will have them do some small work for me. I was
> favorably impressed after a phone conversation with Dave. Dan Jones'
> affliation is obviously a good sign.
> What did you have them do on your engine? Did you have a
> good experience?
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso wrote:
>> I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00 by R&L
>> Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael
>> <[2]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
>> Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>>
>> What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
>> cheap and safe?
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mvh/Regards
>>
>> Mikael
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [3]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=2940019434
> 2. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 10:03:33 -0500
> From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
> Message-ID:
> <CANX29aV1TTbqCOV15d360tUreNdk5C0pkWdHh+v72FJAs6LUUw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Check your fan grounds.
>
> Jeff
> 6559
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> All,
>> I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans are getting
>> tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
>> I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a large jump in
>> temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel. 20-30 degrees
>> jump. Wasn't always that way.
>> I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron Francis radiator
>> for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
>> Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm, S-blades, etc.
>> But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet groups the 440
>> pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
>> It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and black/black, fan to
>> power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and black/red for
>> the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are expected to
>> perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard blades are
>> optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency when
>> rotating opposite to the intended function.
>> I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on Monday, but in
>> the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
>> suggestions.
>> Thanks,
>> Larry
>> ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the archives) are
>> now getting duplicated by the List software.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Check your fan grounds.
> Jeff
> 6559
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch <[1]fresnofinches at aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> A A All,
> A A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans are
> getting
> A A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
> A A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a large
> jump in
> A A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel. 20-30
> degrees
> A A jump. Wasn't always that way.
> A A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron Francis
> radiator
> A A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
> A A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm, S-blades,
> etc.
> A A But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet groups
> the 440
> A A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
> A A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
> black/black, fan to
> A A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and
> black/red for
> A A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are expected
> to
> A A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard
> blades are
> A A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency
> when
> A A rotating opposite to the intended function.
> A A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on
> Monday, but in
> A A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
> A A suggestions.
> A A Thanks,
> A A Larry
> A A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the
> archives) are
> A A now getting duplicated by the List software.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:06:09 -0400
> From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> To: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
> Message-ID:
> <CALsQ=csx6WyyOEbBmyHBOgL1yJzbaarPKCXFnibqtGveF6jbkg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Mike Short makes a good point when he mentions that Larry is
> assigning anthropomorphic
> attributes to parts of his Pantera.( Anthropomorphism is the attribution
> of *human characteristics to machines or animals). **If Larry (or anyone
> else) thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is not
> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the effectiveness of
> the system in question. You can easily obtain a variety of devices that
> are capable of measuring the actual airflow, rpm of the fan blades etc. As
> an example for measuring CFM ( which can be useful for measuring air flow
> for cooling or for air intake for the engine** , **Carburetion, **Fu**el
> injection etc.) This link shows a small sample of some of the devices
> .http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
> <http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en>
> This removes the question of wondering if your car or fans are"tired" and
> replaces the *Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate and
> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like to
> assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe can
> actually enhance the ownership experience when it comes to maintaining
> peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on technology and not
> asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Check your fan grounds.
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch <[1]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> A A All,
>> A A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans are
>> getting
>> A A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
>> A A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a large
>> jump in
>> A A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel. 20-30
>> degrees
>> A A jump. Wasn't always that way.
>> A A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron Francis
>> radiator
>> A A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
>> A A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm, S-blades,
>> etc.
>> A A But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet groups
>> the 440
>> A A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
>> A A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
>> black/black, fan to
>> A A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and
>> black/red for
>> A A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are expected
>> to
>> A A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard
>> blades are
>> A A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency
>> when
>> A A rotating opposite to the intended function.
>> A A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on
>> Monday, but in
>> A A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
>> A A suggestions.
>> A A Thanks,
>> A A Larry
>> A A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the
>> archives) are
>> A A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A Mike Short makes a good point A when he mentions that Larry is
> assigning A anthropomorphic attributes to parts of his
> Pantera.(A A Anthropomorphism is the attribution ofA human
> characteristics to machines or animals). If Larry (or anyone else)
> A thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is not
> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the
> effectiveness of the system in question. A You can easily obtain a
> variety of devices that are capable of measuring the actual airflow,
> rpm of the fan blades etc. As an example for measuring CFM ( which can
> be useful for measuring air flow for cooling or for A air intake for
> the engineA ,A Carburetion,A Fuel injection etc.) A This link A shows a
> small sample of some of the devices
> .[1]http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&
> oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en A This removes the question of
> wondering if your car or fans are"tired" A and replaces
> theA Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate and
> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like
> to assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe
> can actually enhance the ownership experience A when it comes to
> maintaining peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on
> technology and not asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
> Boyd
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <[2]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A A Check your fan grounds.
> A A Jeff
> A A 6559
> A A On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch
> <[1][3]fresnofinches at aol.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A A AA A All,
> A A A AA A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah
> fans are
> A A A getting
> A A A AA A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic
> cooling.
> A A A AA A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a
> large
> A A A jump in
> A A A AA A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway
> travel. 20-30
> A A A degrees
> A A A AA A jump. Wasn't always that way.
> A A A AA A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron
> Francis
> A A A radiator
> A A A AA A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
> A A A AA A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm,
> S-blades,
> A A A etc.
> A A A AA A But I noted the online-available PDF installation
> sheet groups
> A A A the 440
> A A A AA A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
> A A A AA A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
> A A A black/black, fan to
> A A A AA A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black
> and
> A A A black/red for
> A A A AA A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are
> expected
> A A A to
> A A A AA A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always
> heard
> A A A blades are
> A A A AA A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced
> efficiency
> A A A when
> A A A AA A rotating opposite to the intended function.
> A A A AA A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this
> on
> A A A Monday, but in
> A A A AA A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas,
> thoughts and
> A A A AA A suggestions.
> A A A AA A Thanks,
> A A A AA A Larry
> A A A AA A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in
> the
> A A A archives) are
> A A A AA A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>
> A A A _______________________________________________
> A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A A [2][4]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A A [3][5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1. mailto:[6]fresnofinches at aol.com
>
> A A 2. mailto:[7]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A 3. [8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [9]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
> 2. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 3. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 4. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 6. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:11:50 -0400
> From: DeTomaso Pantera <tampapantera at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Looking for a particular picture from the book
> "Panteras For the Road" by Rassmussen.
> Message-ID:
> <CAAXtRAurXqAH8n2wAOrRwAvQwnyt_-NwFXcBSPNsE1uKoLf9TA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi:
> I'm looking for a photo or image from the book "Panteras for the Road." It
> features a 1973 or 1974 Pantera that was "restomodded" by Gary Hall. It
> was orange and black in color and featured Group 4 styling. Thanks!
>
> Cal #2428 in Tampa.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hi:
> I'm looking for a photo or image from the book "Panteras for the Road."
> A It features a 1973 or 1974 Pantera that was "restomodded" by Gary
> Hall. A It was orange and black in color and featured Group 4 styling.
> A Thanks!A
> Cal #2428 in Tampa.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:14:46 -0400
> From: "Larry - Ohio Time" <Larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
> To: "'Boyd Casey'" <boyd411 at gmail.com>, "'Jeff Detrich'"
> <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com, 'Larry Finch' <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
> Message-ID: <C26DCDC7E9ED4DBCA2154385DED105BC at LarryHPPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> << Anthropomorphism is the attribution of *human characteristics to
> machines>>
>
> Boyd are you saying my cars no longer have balls?
>
> Larry (someone need to check) - Cleveland
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Boyd Casey
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM
> To: Jeff Detrich
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; Larry Finch
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
>
> Mike Short makes a good point when he mentions that Larry is
> assigning anthropomorphic
> attributes to parts of his Pantera.( Anthropomorphism is the attribution
> of *human characteristics to machines or animals). **If Larry (or anyone
> else) thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is not
> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the effectiveness of
> the system in question. You can easily obtain a variety of devices that
> are capable of measuring the actual airflow, rpm of the fan blades etc. As
> an example for measuring CFM ( which can be useful for measuring air flow
> for cooling or for air intake for the engine** , **Carburetion, **Fu**el
> injection etc.) This link shows a small sample of some of the devices
> .http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
> #q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
> <http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
> #q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en>
> This removes the question of wondering if your car or fans are"tired" and
> replaces the *Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate and
> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like to
> assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe can
> actually enhance the ownership experience when it comes to maintaining
> peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on technology and not
> asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Check your fan grounds.
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch <[1]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> A A All,
>> A A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans are
>> getting
>> A A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
>> A A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a large
>> jump in
>> A A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel. 20-30
>> degrees
>> A A jump. Wasn't always that way.
>> A A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron Francis
>> radiator
>> A A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
>> A A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm, S-blades,
>> etc.
>> A A But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet groups
>> the 440
>> A A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
>> A A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
>> black/black, fan to
>> A A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and
>> black/red for
>> A A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are expected
>> to
>> A A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard
>> blades are
>> A A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency
>> when
>> A A rotating opposite to the intended function.
>> A A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on
>> Monday, but in
>> A A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
>> A A suggestions.
>> A A Thanks,
>> A A Larry
>> A A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the
>> archives) are
>> A A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> << Anthropomorphism is the attribution of *human characteristics to
> machines>>
>
>
> Boyd are you saying my cars no longer have balls?
>
>
> Larry (someone need to check) - Cleveland
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Boyd
> Casey
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:06 PM
> To: Jeff Detrich
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; Larry Finch
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
>
>
> Mike Short makes a good point when he mentions that Larry is
>
> assigning anthropomorphic
>
> attributes to parts of his Pantera.( Anthropomorphism is the
> attribution
>
> of *human characteristics to machines or animals). **If Larry (or
> anyone
>
> else) thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is
> not
>
> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the
> effectiveness of
>
> the system in question. You can easily obtain a variety of devices
> that
>
> are capable of measuring the actual airflow, rpm of the fan blades etc.
> As
>
> an example for measuring CFM ( which can be useful for measuring air
> flow
>
> for cooling or for air intake for the engine** , **Carburetion,
> **Fu**el
>
> injection etc.) This link shows a small sample of some of the devices
>
> .http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=
> UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
>
> <http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=
> UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en>
>
> This removes the question of wondering if your car or fans are"tired"
> and
>
> replaces the *Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate
> and
>
> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like
> to
>
> assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe
> can
>
> actually enhance the ownership experience when it comes to maintaining
>
> peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on technology and
> not
>
> asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
>
>
> Boyd
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Check your fan grounds.
>
>> Jeff
>
>> 6559
>
>>
>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch
> <[1]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>
>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> A A All,
>
>> A A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans
> are
>
>> getting
>
>> A A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
>
>> A A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a
> large
>
>> jump in
>
>> A A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel.
> 20-30
>
>> degrees
>
>> A A jump. Wasn't always that way.
>
>> A A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron
> Francis
>
>> radiator
>
>> A A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
>
>> A A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm,
> S-blades,
>
>> etc.
>
>> A A But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet
> groups
>
>> the 440
>
>> A A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
>
>> A A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
>
>> black/black, fan to
>
>> A A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and
>
>> black/red for
>
>> A A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are
> expected
>
>> to
>
>> A A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard
>
>> blades are
>
>> A A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency
>
>> when
>
>> A A rotating opposite to the intended function.
>
>> A A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on
>
>> Monday, but in
>
>> A A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
>
>> A A suggestions.
>
>> A A Thanks,
>
>> A A Larry
>
>> A A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the
>
>> archives) are
>
>> A A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>
>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>>
>
>> References
>
>>
>
>> 1. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>
>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>>
>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>>
>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>>
>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:25:11 -0400
> From: DeTomaso Pantera <tampapantera at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] "Getting back" into the game
> Message-ID:
> <CAAXtRAsoGAjOa2UMXpQabQwdhxvO51t5WFSA_DCwLTdYP5cjnA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello All:
> Some of you remember when nearly 15 years ago, I bought #2428 from Jim Last
> in Sacramento. It was an interesting two point five years going from
> essentially a rust issued car to taking my first ever trip to the Plaza
> Hotel back around 2002 in #2428. But to tell you the truth, I missed it:
> welding, rewiring, restoring, and the like. Also, during this time, as a
> result of being familiar with the Ford marque, I also admired the vintage
> Ford and Mercury cars, to include the Mustang. Without further a due,
> here's a picture of a 1966 coupe that I picked up earlier this week. Also
> not pictured are a six cylinder and transmission that was given to me (that
> came from a 65 Ford Falcon). I also have a spare C-6 trans that came with
> the project. I also bought a rotisserie from a local car restorer that
> looks nearly brand new. I'm already eying my welder and some candidate
> sheet metal stuff so stay tuned! Cal #2428.
> -------------- next part --------------
> Hello All:
> Some of you remember when nearly 15 years ago, I bought #2428 from Jim
> Last in Sacramento. It was an interesting two point five years going
> from essentially a rust issued car to taking my first ever trip to the
> Plaza Hotel back around 2002 in #2428. A But to tell you the truth, I
> missed it: welding, rewiring, restoring, and the like. A Also, during
> this time, as a result of being familiar with the Ford marque, I also
> admired the vintage Ford and Mercury cars, to include the Mustang.
> A Without further a due, here's a picture of a 1966 coupe that I picked
> up earlier this week. A Also not pictured are a six cylinder and
> transmission that was given to me (that came from a 65 Ford Falcon).
> A I also have a spare C-6 trans that came with the project. A I also
> bought a rotisserie from a local car restorer that looks nearly brand
> new. A I'm already eying my welder and some candidate sheet metal stuff
> so stay tuned! Cal #2428. A
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> URL: <http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/attachments/20140820/d5af9786/attachment-0001.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:35:44 +0000 (UTC)
> From: jgkrenton at comcast.net
> To: DeTomaso Pantera <tampapantera at gmail.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Looking for a particular picture from the book
> "Panteras For the Road" by Rassmussen.
> Message-ID:
> <520895425.3822553.1408556144020.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Cal:
>
> It sounds like you are talking about the "Hall Pantera GTS" featured in the book?? The book says it's chassis number 4941. (Orange/Black with the big flares)
>
> Maybe the registry has more data or a photo?
>
> Jeff #2467, near Seattle.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "DeTomaso Pantera" <tampapantera at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:11:50 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Looking for a particular picture from the book "Panteras For the Road" by Rassmussen.
>
> Hi:
> I'm looking for a photo or image from the book "Panteras for the Road." It
> features a 1973 or 1974 Pantera that was "restomodded" by Gary Hall. It
> was orange and black in color and featured Group 4 styling. Thanks!
>
> Cal #2428 in Tampa.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> Cal:
> It sounds like you are talking about the "Hall Pantera GTS" featured in
> the book?? The book says it's chassis number 4941. (Orange/Black with
> the big flares)
> Maybe the registry has more data or a photo?
> Jeff #2467, near Seattle.
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: "DeTomaso Pantera" <tampapantera at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 10:11:50 AM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Looking for a particular picture from the book
> "Panteras For the Road" by Rassmussen.
> Hi:
> I'm looking for a photo or image from the book "Panteras for the Road."
> It
> features a 1973 or 1974 Pantera that was "restomodded" by Gary Hall.
> It
> was orange and black in color and featured Group 4 styling. Thanks!
> Cal #2428 in Tampa.
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:28:27 -0500
> From: Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] McLain Automotive
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=EzWVAScnwysZ2+_GWMxGzpHwvKeHhfT+mNzVZHH3jm-mAAQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>> Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
>
> I haven't had a chance to finish the full write up and add links to the
> video, dyno graphs and pictures but here's what I have so far:
>
> Mark's previous engine was supposed to be a stroker but, when torn down,
> turned out to be a 0.030" over 351C with flat top pistons, Eagle rods and a
> stock 3.5" nodular iron crankshaft. Camshaft was a Competition Cams 308
> Magnum roller which was being run with 1.6:1 ratio rockers and 0.020"
> intake and exhaust lash. Heads were closed chamber 4V that were filled on
> the intake side, along with port plates on the exhaust side. The intake
> was a Holley Strip Dominator with the floors raised to match the stuffed
> heads. Inspection revealed both heads were cracked and Mark needed headers
> so we had some we had some flexibility when it came to replacement cylinder
> heads. We ended up going with a set of Ford Motorsport A3 heads and a
> matching A331 intake that I had on hand. Plans were to test the raised
> floor Strip Dominator on the A3 heas but that didn't work out so Dave
> decided to do some work on the A331. Externally, the Edelbrock A331 looks
> like a Torker:
>
>
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_01.jpg
>
> but has smaller A3 ports and no cross-over:
>
>
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_02.jpg
>
> You can see how much smaller the A3 port is here:
>
>
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/4V_intake_gasket_on_A3_head.jpg
>
> That's a 4V gasket on top of an A3 port. What's not obvious is the A3 roof
> is higher (obscured behind the gasket). You can clearly see the evolution
> of the high port heads here:
>
>
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_exh_cropped.jpg
>
> On the left is an iron 4V modified with an aluminum high port exhaust port
> plate like they ran in Pro Stock. You can see the lower edge of the
> original exhaust port (painted blue). In the middle is an A3 port which is
> slightly higher with a more uniform round shape, instead of the weird area
> changes of the iron 4V port. At the right is a ported C302B. Note the
> C302B ports start out much smaller:
>
>
> http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/media/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_int_cropped.jpg
>
> Based upon the iron Pro Stock 351C heads, the A3 ports were designed by
> Jack Roush, Bud Moore and Leonard Wood. As cast, they have the largest
> intake port volume (241 cc's) and exhaust port volume (134 cc's) of the
> high port family of Ford Motorsport heads:
>
>
> http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/highport_comparison_cropped.jpg
>
> There's a slight bend on intake port walls to accommodate the pushrods and
> the raised floor increases port radius, straightening the turn for incoming
> mixture and minimizing fuel separation. A3s can have a couple of different
> exhaust bolt patterns. Mark's heads have the later exhaust port bolt
> pattern and had some previous port work done. Before rebuilding them with
> new valves, Dave dropped in a pair of valves from Mark's old heads and put
> the A3s on the flow bench. He also flowed the 4V heads I could run the
> original engine through Dynomation for comparison purposes. Results were:
>
> Lift Int Exh Int Exh
> Inches CFM CFM CFM CFM
> A3 A3 Stuffed 4V
> 0.025 13.9 11.6 13.4 14.3
> 0.050 34.5 28.6 34.1 25.2
> 0.100 67.1 57.4 69.9 52.9
> 0.150 96.1 88.8 94.1 80.1
> 0.200 135.4 110.0 121.0 99.4
> 0.300 198.8 145.3 183.1 133.4
> 0.400 245.5 169.1 225.5 158.4
> 0.500 288.7 188.6 266.1 174.7
> 0.600 320.6 206.2 300.8 182.6
> 0.700 343.0 223.2 325.0 188.6
> 0.800 353.4 234.1 310.3 193.3
>
> Ford Motorsport A3 High Port aluminum heads and port floor filled iron 4V
> heads tested on Dave McLain's SuperFlow flow bench at 10" and converted to
> 28". Clayed intake radius but no exhaust pipe. Tested on 4.030" diameter
> bore tube with a valve chamfer like a stock block. Valves used for testing
> were from one of Mark's old heads. As with most of the Cleveland heads
> we've tested, they generate little to no swirl motion. I didn't measure
> the port area on these A3 heads but they should be very close to the set I
> previously measured:
>
> 2.74 square inches minimum intake port area
> 1.88 square inches minimum exhaust port area
> intake port 2.125" high by 1.725" wide (3.665 square inches)
> exhaust port 1.65" high by 1.725"? wide (2.27 square inches)
>
> In previous dyno testing, the Edelbrock Scorpion performed quite a bit
> better than the Torker. The Scorpion looks much like the Torker but is a
> couple of inches taller with a level carb pad. Since the Pantera mounts
> the engine level, Dave milled a 1" tall open spacer to level out the carb
> pad and welded it to the A331. The spacer also permits the porting to be
> extended higher up the plenum which allows larger, more gradual, radii into
> the tops of the runners. Dave had previously welded extensions onto the
> runner entries when we tested the A331 intake on my 403C. Based upon that
> testing, Dave decided to shorten the extensions. Several spacers were
> tested on dyno with the HVH 1" merge spacer being best. A simple 4 hole 1"
> spacer was also pretty good.
>
> Mark races his Pantera in open road races like Silver State and the Pony
> Express but rarely runs it on the street. With his stock ZF gearing and
> tire diameter, he's RPM limited. A 3.75" stroke was chosen as it would
> have acceptable piston speed at maximum RPM while supporting his 550+ HP
> goal. Also, Mark wants to run on 92-93 octane pump gas and with the 3.75"
> stroke, flat top pistons and the A3 combustion chamber volume, the
> compression ratio worked out to be 11:1 which should work with pump gas,
> given the cam's overlap. Previously, I wrote a program to calculate the
> speed in gear at a given shift point RPM, along with the RPM drop going
> into the next gear. Mark's Pantera has the Dash 2 ZF gearing:
>
> 1st gear = 2.23
> 2nd gear = 1.47
> 3rd gear = 1.04
> 4th gear = 0.846
> 5th gear = 0.705
> final drive ratio = 4.22:1
>
> He's running 315/35/17 tires with a calculated diameter of 25.68".
> Assuming a 7000 RPM shift point:
>
> Shifting from 1st to 2nd, Fall Back Engine RPM = 4614 at 57 MPH
> Shifting from 2nd to 3rd, Fall Back Engine RPM = 4952 at 86 MPH
> Shifting from 3rd to 4th, Fall Back Engine RPM = 5964 at 122 MPH
> Shifting from 4th to 5th, Fall Back Engine RPM = 5833 at 150.0 MPH
>
> In 5th gear, 7000 RPM equates to 180 MPH. With the rev limiter set at 7200
> RPM, that works out to 185 MPH. I also have some wind tunnel data on the
> Pantera (Ford tested a Pantera in a wind tunnel and the results were
> published in Issue 29 of the Italian design magazine "Style Auto"), along
> with a couple of other sources for a Pantera's frontal area and drag
> coefficient. I ran the numbers through a program I wrote to calculate
> power required to overcome aerodynamic drag and it was apparent that Mark's
> new engine would provide a bunch more power than required to peg the rev
> limiter in 5th gear. I also ran some brake specific fuel consumption
> figures and it looks like he could run out of fuel at the longer (90+
> miles) open road races, if he was WOT the entire way, but I figure he can
> coast a long way from 185 MPH :-)
>
> For this sort of application, Dave likes the Reed ULX line of solid roller
> lobes. The Reed ULX lobes are older designs that are relatively easy on
> the valve train, so work well in endurance racing and marine applications.
> Reed is no longer in business but Steve Demos has the lobes. I ran a cam
> optimization to optimize power between 4000 to 7000 RPM and crossed the
> result against the ULX lobe catalog, then ran several combinations of
> intake and exhaust lobes and lobe separation angles and sent the results to
> Dave. The cam picked was the smallest one which Dynomation predicted would
> be the best below 6000 RPM and close to the others on peak power. The
> simulation prediction was for just under 600 HP. Competition Cams solid
> roller lifters were chosen and, for Mark's useage, Dave recommends just
> changing them out every couple of years. Dave soaks the lifters in mineral
> spirits and blows them out 3 or 4 times to get all the assembly grease out,
> then soaks them in 10W-30 motor oil before putting in the engine.
>
> Given the sustained high RPM intended usage, several oiling system
> modifications were made. The right side only lifter bores were bushed and
> an 0.040" restrictor was placed in the back of the left side galley. The
> previous builder had fitted a plug under the front main bearing. Dave
> doesn't think that helps anything but it doesn't hurt either so he left it
> alone. Oil pump is a stock volume and pressure Melling M84A with a Melling
> oil pump drive shaft and a "10 quart" Aviad gated and baffles Pantera road
> race oil pan. Clearances were set at 0.0025" for the mains and 0.0022" for
> the rods using Federal Mogul main bearings and Clevite rod bearings.
>
> On the cooling system, Dave made a plug with a 0.100" hole for the bypass
> passage in the block. A -4 AN line was run from the back of each head.
> They tee together and run to the suction side of the water pump where Dave
> put a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always pulls coolant and any
> bubbles out of the back of the heads. Dave thinks that can be important in
> the Pantera because the engine sits level.
>
> The MSD Pro Billet distributor from the original engine was re-used. It
> had the two light springs and the plain colored advance limiter bushing but
> wasn't very consistent so Dave locked out the timing which made the idle a
> lot better. On the dyno, without any flywheel mass, idle was 1200 RPM.
> Once it's in the car with a flywheel attached, idle can be set a bit
> lower. Timing was best at 30 degrees. With this much cam and only 11:1
> static compression, it shouldn't be too hard to start. If Mark decided to
> put a curve back in the distributor, it needs to be really short. An
> aluminum-bronze gear was installed on the distributor and the gear on the
> cam de-burred to try to help make the gear last longer. Moderate heat
> range "Street" Autolite 3923's spark plugs were used on the dyno. In an
> aluminum headed application, they are hot enough to stay clean with normal
> driving and cold start/short trip use. For race use, Dave provided a set
> of AR 3910's which are about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923's. Dave
> noted that engines can be quite sensitive to heat range. Several years ago
> he had a problem with this in a circle track engine. The customer had run
> the same plugs in the engine for over a season with no fouling or trouble
> of any kind. In the off season he changed to another car with a better
> chassis and I also worked on the engine package to find some more power.
> He could run about four laps and burn up the plugs if the track was pretty
> heavy (dirt track). But if the track was slightly slicker and had less
> grip the plugs would look perfect and never cause a problem. A data logger
> was installed on the car and the difference between the heavy and normal
> track as far as the engine went was almost non existent. The time the
> driver was off the throttle was only about 1/10 of a second less on the
> heavy track but it was enough to cause a problem where the plug would go
> from looking fine to absolutely burned up! Switching to something colder
> cured the problem and they still stay clean enough that he can run a set of
> plugs for most of a season.
>
> The Ford Motorsport M-9439-A341 intake manifold gaskets for the A3 heads
> are no longer available. Fel Pro makes two intake gasket sets for the
> Motorsport high port heads. Though 1229 is listed for A3 heads, the port
> opening measures the close to C302B heads (1.35" x 2.20"). 1265 is listed
> for B351 and C302B heads but the port size is listed as 1.35" x 2.22".
> Both are "trim to fit" for the A3 heads. P/N 1229 has round holes on both
> ends in case coolant is run through the intake (Windsor block
> application). Both 1229 and 1265 of those are 0.060" thick. Fel Pro makes
> similar intake gaskets in thinner (p/n 12531 is 0.030", 12532 and 1253S2
> are 0.045") and thicker (12535 is 0.120") sizes for Yates heads that could
> probably be adapted if you need to compensate for head or intake milling.
> On the exhaust side, Fel Pro makes two different header gaskets for high
> port heads. P/N 1417 is for the early exhaust bolt pattern and has a 1.94"
> diameter round port size. P/N 1431 is for the later pattern and has a
> 1.81" diameter round port size.
>
> Dave initially ran the engine on his dyno carb, a Bobby Oliver built Holley
> 950 HP to baseline against the annular booster Holley 830 from Mark's
> original engine. The Holley 830 is far from Dave's favorite carb. As
> supplied, it had 82 jets and no power valves. After considerable dyno
> tuning, it ended up with 92 and 96 jets with power valves front and rear.
> Generally speaking, taking the power valve out of the circuit makes you
> need to add about 10 or 12 jet sizes to make up the difference. Having to
> go so far on jetting usually indicates the carb (size/boosters) selected is
> wrong for the application. Given a choice, Dave would have opted Holley
> 4779 prepared by Competition Carburetion (Bobby Oliver) with a circle
> track/road racing package. This is about the same as their normal 4779
> except for the float configuration and for adding a rear power valve. This
> reduces the jetting requirement in the rear which can help prevent loading
> up during a hard de-acceleration into a corner.
>
> The overall parts list ended up looking like:
>
> 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with 3mm oil rings)
> SCAT 4340 forged steel rods (6.125" long with 7/16" ARP bolts)
> 3.75" stroke Scat 4340 forged crankshaft, SVO (Windsor snout design with
> Cleveland main diameter) crankshaft, internally balanced (p/n:
> 4-351C-3750-6125)
> 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
> 11:1 compression
> Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave McLain)
> Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
> SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
> Manley guide plates
> 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
> Jomar stud girdle
> Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
> 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash (0.024" and
> 0.026"), 110 LSA, 109 ICL
> Competition Cams solid roller lifters
> PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with dampers
> Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the intake, 601
> lbs for the exhaust
> Comp Cams titanium retainers
> Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style crank
> combination
> Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only with an 0.040"
> restrictor in the back of the left side galley
> Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil pump drive
> shaft
> Aviad Pantera gated and baffled road race oil pan
> Clearances are 0.0025" mains 0.0022" rods using Federal Mogul mains and
> Clevite rod bearings
> Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these clearances
> with the Scat forged steel crank
> Romac 351C SFI spec harmonic damper, zero balance
> Flow Kooler water pump
> Cooling system modifications
> 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the back of the
> heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4
> AN line from each head that tees together and runs to the suction side of
> the water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the
> engine always pulls coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads
> Cometic MLS head gaskets and Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
> MSD Pro Billet mechanical advance distributor (small cap for Pantera
> firewall and rear window clearance) with aluminum-bronze distributor gear
> Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range), AR 3910 for
> race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
> Precision Proformance high port 4-into-1 Pantera headers
> 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
> Ford Racing polished cast aluminum valve covers
> double roller timing chain
> neutral balance aluminum flywheel
> custom length 0.080"? wall push rods
> Fuel pump block off plate (dyno providing the fuel flow)
> Head bolts from Mark's original engine plus Grade 8's (and hardened
> washers) for the 4 extra long ones on the exhaust side
>
> With Mark's carb, the best pull was 623 HP at 6800 to 6900 RPM and 521
> ft-lbs at 5100 RPM through my Pantera 4-into-1 shorty high port headers and
> 2 1/2" diameter mufflers. The primaries on these range from 16 to 20
> inches or so. Previous testing suggests the engine would make better power
> with 3" inlet/outlet Magnaflow mufflers and a cross-over. Mark's original
> plan was to cut off the 2 1/2" collectors from the Pantera headers and weld
> on 3" diameter collectors but the dyno results with smaller collectors was
> good enough for Mark. He'll keep the stock collectors and run 3"
> inlet/outlet mufflers but may add a cross-over at a later date.
>
> Dan Jones
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:01 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <
> detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>> Here it is.
>>
>> Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
>> I'll do a full write up a little later this week when I can find the
>> time but some basics are:
>> A 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with 3mm oil
>> rings)
>> A 6.125" Scat forged connecting rods
>> A 3.75" stroke Scat forged crankshaft, internally balanced (Part
>> Number: 4-351C-3750-6125)
>> A 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
>> A 11:1 compression
>> A Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
>> A 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash (0.024"
>> and 0.026"), 110 LSA
>> A Competition Cams solid roller lifters
>> A PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with dampers
>> A Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the intake,
>> 601 lbs for the exhaust
>> A Titanium retainers
>> A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style
>> crank combination
>> A Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only with an
>> 0.040" restrictor in the back of the left side galley
>> A Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil pump
>> drive shaft and Aviad Pantera pan
>> A Clearances are .0025 mains .0022 rods using Federal Mogul mains and
>> Clevite rod bearings
>> A Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these
>> clearances with the Scat forged steel crank.
>> A Romac harmonic damper
>> A Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
>> A Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave)
>> A 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
>> A Jomar stud girdle
>> A Manley guide plates
>> A SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
>> A Cooling system modifications
>> A 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the back of
>> the heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4 AN line
>> from each head that tees together and runs to the suction side of the
>> water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always pulls
>> coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads
>> A Cometic MLS head gaskets with Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
>> A MSD Pro Billet distributor with bronze gear
>> A Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range), AR 3910
>> for race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
>> A 30 degrees total timing
>> A Precision Proformance high port Pantera headers
>> A 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
>> Mark runs his Pantera in open road races and rarely drives it on the
>> street.A His ZF has the original gearing so we wanted something that
>> would pull well from 3500 to 7000+ RPM.A I designed the cam to
>> maximize the power between 4000 and 7000 RPM, with a torque peak at
>> around 5000 RPM.A I designed several cams using the Reed ULX lobes and
>> the one chosen was the smallest (lowest overlap) and had the best power
>> below 6000 RPM, along with the flattest torque curve.A The Reed ULX
>> lobes are older designs that are relatively easy on the valve train so
>> work well in endurance racing and marine applications.A Dave spent
>> some time modifying the A331 intake.A A 1" thick open spacer was
>> milled to level the carb and welded to the intake.A On top of that,
>> several 1" spacers with an HVH 1 inch merge spacer working best.
>> Dynomation was predicting a little under 600 HP and usually
>> under-predicts the so I thought we'd hit 600 HP.A Final results were
>> 623.1 HP at 6900 RPM and and 521.6 ft-lbs at 5100 RPM running through
>> the 4-into-1 Pantera headers with 2 1/2" pipes and mufflers.A The
>> torque curve is really flat in the operating RPM range.
>> More details to follow...
>> Dan Jones
>> i
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]Posts: 236 | city, state or province, country: east haddam,
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:42 AM, "cengles at cox.net"
>> <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
>> Dear Mark,
>> Ah, the McLain Shop. I am curious about your experience.
>> I anticipate that I will have them do some small work for me. I was
>> favorably impressed after a phone conversation with Dave. Dan Jones'
>> affliation is obviously a good sign.
>> What did you have them do on your engine? Did you have a
>> good experience?
>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso wrote:
>>> I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00 by R&L
>>> Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael
>>> <[2]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri to Atlanta
>>> Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
>>>
>>> What freight companies would be worth contacting to get this done,
>>> cheap and safe?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mvh/Regards
>>>
>>> Mikael
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [3]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [5]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1.
>> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=2940019434
>> 2. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
>> 3. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
>> Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
> I haven't had a chance to finish the full write up and add links to the
> video, dyno graphs and pictures but here's what I have so far:
> Mark's previous engine was supposed to be a stroker but, when torn
> down, turned out to be a 0.030" over 351C with flat top pistons, Eagle
> rods and a stock 3.5" nodular iron crankshaft.A Camshaft was a
> Competition Cams 308 Magnum roller which was being run with 1.6:1 ratio
> rockers and 0.020" intake and exhaust lash.A Heads were closed chamber
> 4V that were filled on the intake side, along with port plates on the
> exhaust side.A The intake was a Holley Strip Dominator with the floors
> raised to match the stuffed heads.A Inspection revealed both heads
> were cracked and Mark needed headers so we had some we had some
> flexibility when it came to replacement cylinder heads.A We ended up
> going with a set of Ford Motorsport A3 heads and a matching A331 intake
> that I had on hand.A Plans were to test the raised floor Strip
> Dominator on the A3 heas but that didn't work out so Dave decided to do
> some work on the A331.A Externally, the Edelbrock A331 looks like a
> Torker:
> A [1]http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleve
> land%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_01.jpg
> but has smaller A3 ports and no cross-over:
> A [2]http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleve
> land%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_02.jpg
> You can see how much smaller the A3 port is here:
> A [3]http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleve
> land%20Stuff/4V_intake_gasket_on_A3_head.jpg
> That's a 4V gasket on top of an A3 port.A What's not obvious is the A3
> roof is higher (obscured behind the gasket).A You can clearly see the
> evolution of the high port heads here:
> A [4]http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleve
> land%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_exh_cropped.jpg
> On the left is an iron 4V modified with an aluminum high port exhaust
> port plate like they ran in Pro Stock. You can see the lower edge of
> the original exhaust port (painted blue).A In the middle is an A3 port
> which is slightly higher with a more uniform round shape, instead of
> the weird area changes of the iron 4V port.A At the right is a ported
> C302B.A Note the C302B ports start out much smaller:
> A [5]http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/media/351%20Clevel
> and%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_int_cropped.jpg
> Based upon the iron Pro Stock 351C heads, the A3 ports were designed by
> Jack Roush, Bud Moore and Leonard Wood.A As cast, they have the
> largest intake port volume (241 cc's) and exhaust port volume (134
> cc's) of the high port family of Ford Motorsport heads:
> A [6]http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleve
> land%20Stuff/highport_comparison_cropped.jpg
> There's a slight bend on intake port walls to accommodate the pushrods
> and the raised floor increases port radius, straightening the turn for
> incoming mixture and minimizing fuel separation.A A3s can have a
> couple of different exhaust bolt patterns.A Mark's heads have the
> later exhaust port bolt pattern and had some previous port work done.A
> Before rebuilding them with new valves, Dave dropped in a pair of
> valves from Mark's old heads and put the A3s on the flow bench.A He
> also flowed the 4V heads I could run the original engine through
> Dynomation for comparison purposes.A Results were:
> A LiftA A IntA A ExhA A A IntA A Exh
> A Inches CFMA A CFMA A A CFMA A CFM
> A A A A A A A A3A A A A3A A A A Stuffed 4V
> A 0.025A 13.9A 11.6A A 13.4A 14.3
> A 0.050A 34.5A 28.6A A 34.1A 25.2
> A 0.100A 67.1A 57.4A A 69.9A 52.9
> A 0.150A 96.1A 88.8A A 94.1A 80.1
> A 0.200 135.4 110.0A 121.0A 99.4
> A 0.300 198.8 145.3A 183.1 133.4
> A 0.400 245.5 169.1A 225.5 158.4
> A 0.500 288.7 188.6A 266.1 174.7
> A 0.600 320.6 206.2A 300.8 182.6
> A 0.700 343.0 223.2A 325.0 188.6
> A 0.800 353.4 234.1A 310.3 193.3
> Ford Motorsport A3 High Port aluminum heads and port floor filled iron
> 4V heads tested on Dave McLain's SuperFlow flow bench at 10" and
> converted to 28".A Clayed intake radius but no exhaust pipe.A Tested
> on 4.030" diameter bore tube with a valve chamfer like a stock block.A
> Valves used for testing were from one of Mark's old heads.A As with
> most of the Cleveland heads we've tested, they generate little to no
> swirl motion.A I didn't measure the port area on these A3 heads but
> they should be very close to the set I previously measured:
> A 2.74 square inches minimum intake port area
> A 1.88 square inches minimum exhaust port area
> A intake port 2.125" high by 1.725" wide (3.665 square inches)
> A exhaust port 1.65" high by 1.725"? wide (2.27 square inches)
> In previous dyno testing, the Edelbrock Scorpion performed quite a bit
> better than the Torker.A The Scorpion looks much like the Torker but
> is a couple of inches taller with a level carb pad.A Since the Pantera
> mounts the engine level, Dave milled a 1" tall open spacer to level out
> the carb pad and welded it to the A331.A The spacer also permits the
> porting to be extended higher up the plenum which allows larger, more
> gradual, radii into the tops of the runners.A Dave had previously
> welded extensions onto the runner entries when we tested the A331
> intake on my 403C.A Based upon that testing, Dave decided to shorten
> the extensions.A Several spacers were tested on dyno with the HVH 1"
> merge spacer being best.A A simple 4 hole 1" spacer was also pretty
> good.
> Mark races his Pantera in open road races like Silver State and the
> Pony Express but rarely runs it on the street.A With his stock ZF
> gearing and tire diameter, he's RPM limited.A A 3.75" stroke was
> chosen as it would have acceptable piston speed at maximum RPM while
> supporting his 550+ HP goal.A Also, Mark wants to run on 92-93 octane
> pump gas and with the 3.75" stroke, flat top pistons and the A3
> combustion chamber volume, the compression ratio worked out to be 11:1
> which should work with pump gas, given the cam's overlap.A Previously,
> I wrote a program to calculate the speed in gear at a given shift point
> RPM, along with the RPM drop going into the next gear.A Mark's Pantera
> has the Dash 2 ZF gearing:
> A 1st gear = 2.23
> A 2nd gear = 1.47
> A 3rd gear = 1.04
> A 4th gear = 0.846
> A 5th gear = 0.705
> A final drive ratio = 4.22:1
> He's running 315/35/17 tires with a calculated diameter of 25.68".A
> Assuming a 7000 RPM shift point:
> A Shifting from 1st to 2nd, Fall Back Engine RPM = 4614 atA 57 MPH
> A Shifting from 2nd to 3rd, Fall Back Engine RPM = 4952 atA 86 MPH
> A Shifting from 3rd to 4th, Fall Back Engine RPM = 5964 at 122 MPH
> A Shifting from 4th to 5th, Fall Back Engine RPM = 5833 at 150.0 MPH
> In 5th gear, 7000 RPM equates to 180 MPH.A With the rev limiter set at
> 7200 RPM, that works out to 185 MPH.A I also have some wind tunnel
> data on the Pantera (Ford tested a Pantera in a wind tunnel and the
> results were published in Issue 29 of the Italian design magazine
> "Style Auto"), along with a couple of other sources for a Pantera's
> frontal area and drag coefficient.A I ran the numbers through a
> program I wrote to calculate power required to overcome aerodynamic
> drag and it was apparent that Mark's new engine would provide a bunch
> more power than required to peg the rev limiter in 5th gear.A I also
> ran some brake specific fuel consumption figures and it looks like he
> could run out of fuel at the longer (90+ miles) open road races, if he
> was WOT the entire way, but I figure he can coast a long way from 185
> MPH :-)
> For this sort of application, Dave likes the Reed ULX line of solid
> roller lobes.A The Reed ULX lobes are older designs that are
> relatively easy on the valve train, so work well in endurance racing
> and marine applications.A Reed is no longer in business but Steve
> Demos has the lobes.A I ran a cam optimization to optimize power
> between 4000 to 7000 RPM and crossed the result against the ULX lobe
> catalog, then ran several combinations of intake and exhaust lobes and
> lobe separation angles and sent the results to Dave.A The cam picked
> was the smallest one which Dynomation predicted would be the best below
> 6000 RPM and close to the others on peak power.A The simulation
> prediction was for just under 600 HP.A Competition Cams solid roller
> lifters were chosen and, for Mark's useage, Dave recommends just
> changing them out every couple of years.A Dave soaks the lifters in
> mineral spirits and blows them out 3 or 4 times to get all the assembly
> grease out, then soaks them in 10W-30 motor oil before putting in the
> engine.
> Given the sustained high RPM intended usage, several oiling system
> modifications were made.A The right side only lifter bores were bushed
> and an 0.040" restrictor was placed in the back of the left side
> galley.A The previous builder had fitted a plug under the front main
> bearing.A Dave doesn't think that helps anything but it doesn't hurt
> either so he left it alone.A Oil pump is a stock volume and pressure
> Melling M84A with a Melling oil pump drive shaft and a "10 quart" Aviad
> gated and baffles Pantera road race oil pan.A Clearances were set at
> 0.0025" for the mains and 0.0022" for the rods using Federal Mogul main
> bearings and Clevite rod bearings.
> On the cooling system, Dave made a plug with a 0.100" hole for the
> bypass passage in the block.A A -4 AN line was run from the back of
> each head.A They tee together and run to the suction side of the water
> pump where Dave put a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always pulls
> coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads.A Dave thinks
> that can be important in the Pantera because the engine sits level.
> The MSD Pro Billet distributor from the original engine was re-used.A
> It had the two light springs and the plain colored advance limiter
> bushing but wasn't very consistent so Dave locked out the timing which
> made the idle a lot better.A On the dyno, without any flywheel mass,
> idle was 1200 RPM.A Once it's in the car with a flywheel attached,
> idle can be set a bit lower.A Timing was best at 30 degrees.A With
> this much cam and only 11:1 static compression, it shouldn't be too
> hard to start.A If Mark decided to put a curve back in the
> distributor, it needs to be really short.A An aluminum-bronze gear was
> installed on the distributor and the gear on the cam de-burred to try
> to help make the gear last longer.A Moderate heat range "Street"
> Autolite 3923's spark plugs were used on the dyno.A In an aluminum
> headed application, they are hot enough to stay clean with normal
> driving and cold start/short trip use.A For race use, Dave provided a
> set of AR 3910's which are about 2 heat ranges colder than the
> 3923's.A Dave noted that engines can be quite sensitive to heat
> range.A Several years ago he had a problem with this in a circle track
> engine.A The customer had run the same plugs in the engine for over a
> season with no fouling or trouble of any kind.A In the off season he
> changed to another car with a better chassis and I also worked on the
> engine package to find some more power.A He could run about four laps
> and burn up the plugs if the track was pretty heavy (dirt track).A But
> if the track was slightly slicker and had less grip the plugs would
> look perfect and never cause a problem.A A data logger was installed
> on the car and the difference between the heavy and normal track as far
> as the engine went was almost non existent.A The time the driver was
> off the throttle was only about 1/10 of a second less on the heavy
> track but it was enough to cause a problem where the plug would go from
> looking fine to absolutely burned up!A Switching to something colder
> cured the problem and they still stay clean enough that he can run a
> set of plugs for most of a season.
> The Ford Motorsport M-9439-A341 intake manifold gaskets for the A3
> heads are no longer available.A Fel Pro makes two intake gasket sets
> for the Motorsport high port heads.A Though 1229 is listed for A3
> heads, the port opening measures the close to C302B heads (1.35" x
> 2.20").A 1265 is listed for B351 and C302B heads but the port size is
> listed as 1.35" x 2.22".A Both are "trim to fit" for the A3 heads.A
> P/N 1229 has round holes on both ends in case coolant is run through
> the intake (Windsor block application).A Both 1229 and 1265 of those
> are 0.060" thick.A Fel Pro makes similar intake gaskets in thinner
> (p/n 12531 is 0.030", 12532 and 1253S2 are 0.045") and thicker (12535
> is 0.120") sizes for Yates heads that could probably be adapted if you
> need to compensate for head or intake milling.A A On the exhaust side,
> Fel Pro makes two different header gaskets for high port heads.A P/N
> 1417 is for the early exhaust bolt pattern and has a 1.94" diameter
> round port size.A P/N 1431 is for the later pattern and has a 1.81"
> diameter round port size.
> Dave initially ran the engine on his dyno carb, a Bobby Oliver built
> Holley 950 HP to baseline against the annular booster Holley 830 from
> Mark's original engine.A The Holley 830 is far from Dave's favorite
> carb.A As supplied,A it had 82 jets and no power valves.A After
> considerable dyno tuning, it ended up with 92 and 96 jets with power
> valves front and rear.A Generally speaking, taking the power valve out
> of the circuit makes you need to add about 10 or 12 jet sizes to make
> up the difference.A Having to go so far on jetting usually indicates
> the carb (size/boosters) selected is wrong for the application.A A
> Given a choice, Dave would have opted Holley 4779 prepared by
> Competition Carburetion (Bobby Oliver) with a circle track/road racing
> package.A This is about the same as their normal 4779 except for the
> float configuration and for adding a rear power valve.A This reduces
> the jetting requirement in the rear which can help prevent loading up
> during a hard de-acceleration into a corner.
> The overall parts list ended up looking like:
> A 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with 3mm oil
> rings)
> A SCAT 4340 forged steel rods (6.125" long with 7/16" ARP bolts)
> A 3.75" stroke Scat 4340 forged crankshaft, SVO (Windsor snout design
> with Cleveland main diameter) crankshaft, internally balanced (p/n:
> 4-351C-3750-6125)
> A 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
> A 11:1 compression
> A Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave McLain)
> A Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
> A SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
> A Manley guide plates
> A 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
> A Jomar stud girdle
> A Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
> A 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash (0.024"
> and 0.026"), 110 LSA, 109 ICL
> A Competition Cams solid roller lifters
> A PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with dampers
> A Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the intake,
> 601 lbs for the exhaust
> A Comp Cams titanium retainers
> A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO style
> crank combination
> A Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only with an
> 0.040" restrictor in the back of the left side galley
> A Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil pump
> drive shaft
> A Aviad Pantera gated and baffled road race oil pan
> A Clearances are 0.0025" mains 0.0022" rods using Federal Mogul mains
> and Clevite rod bearings
> A Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these
> clearances with the Scat forged steel crank
> A Romac 351C SFI spec harmonic damper, zero balance
> A Flow Kooler water pump
> A Cooling system modifications
> A 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the back of
> the heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4
> A AN line from each head that tees together and runs to the suction
> side of the water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the
> A engine always pulls coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the
> heads
> A Cometic MLS head gaskets and Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
> A MSD Pro Billet mechanical advance distributor (small cap for Pantera
> firewall and rear window clearance) with aluminum-bronze distributor
> gear
> A Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range), AR 3910
> for race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
> A Precision Proformance high port 4-into-1 Pantera headers
> A 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
> A Ford Racing polished cast aluminum valve covers
> A double roller timing chain
> A neutral balance aluminum flywheel
> A custom length 0.080"? wall push rods
> A Fuel pump block off plate (dyno providing the fuel flow)
> A Head bolts from Mark's original engine plus Grade 8's (and hardened
> washers) for the 4 extra long ones on the exhaust side
> With Mark's carb, the best pull was 623 HP at 6800 to 6900 RPM and 521
> ft-lbs at 5100 RPM through my Pantera 4-into-1 shorty high port headers
> and 2 1/2" diameter mufflers.A The primaries on these range from 16 to
> 20 inches or so.A Previous testing suggests the engine would make
> better power with 3" inlet/outlet Magnaflow mufflers and a
> cross-over.A Mark's original plan was to cut off the 2 1/2" collectors
> from the Pantera headers and weld on 3" diameter collectors but the
> dyno results with smaller collectors was good enough for Mark.A He'll
> keep the stock collectors and run 3" inlet/outlet mufflers but may add
> a cross-over at a later date.
> Dan Jones
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:01 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
> <[7]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>
> A A Chuck,
> A A Here it is.
> A A Dan Jones might be willing to make some comments.
> A A I'll do a full write up a little later this week when I can
> find the
> A A time but some basics are:
> A A A 4.04" bore Probe forged flat top pistons (1/16", 1/16" with
> 3mm oil
> A A rings)
> A A A 6.125" Scat forged connecting rods
> A A A 3.75" stroke Scat forged crankshaft, internally balanced
> (Part
> A A Number: 4-351C-3750-6125)
> A A A 4.04" bore x 3.75" stroke = 384.6 cubic inches
> A A A 11:1 compression
> A A A Solid roller cam using Reed ULX lobes:
> A A A 254/258 @ 0.050" (R290ULX/R292ULX), 0.692"/0.701 less lash
> (0.024"
> A A and 0.026"), 110 LSA
> A A A Competition Cams solid roller lifters
> A A A PBM/Erson 3850 chrome silicon double valve springs with
> dampers
> A A A Installed at 1.950", 223 lbs seat and 582 lbs open for the
> intake,
> A A 601 lbs for the exhaust
> A A A Titanium retainers
> A A A Rollmaster timing set that's made for the Cleveland block/SVO
> style
> A A crank combination
> A A A Oiling mods are bushed lifter bores on the right side only
> with an
> A A 0.040" restrictor in the back of the left side galley
> A A A Stock volume and pressure Melling M84A oil pump, Melling oil
> pump
> A A drive shaft and Aviad Pantera pan
> A A A Clearances are .0025 mains .0022 rods using Federal Mogul
> mains and
> A A Clevite rod bearings
> A A A Main bearing size is 1/2 under and rods are -1 to get these
> A A clearances with the Scat forged steel crank.
> A A A Romac harmonic damper
> A A A Ford Motorsport A3 high port aluminum Cleveland heads
> A A A Ford Motorsport A331 (modified by Dave)
> A A A 1.73:1 ratio Competition Cams "gold" aluminum roller rockers
> A A A Jomar stud girdle
> A A A Manley guide plates
> A A A SI stainless valves (2.19" intake, 1.71" exhaust)
> A A A Cooling system modifications
> A A A 0.100" diameter block bypass passage plug, petcocks in the
> back of
> A A the heads to let air out of the rear of the engine with a -4 AN
> line
> A A from each head that tees together and runs to the suction side
> of the
> A A water pump with a 0.060" restrictor so that the engine always
> pulls
> A A coolant and any bubbles out of the back of the heads
> A A A Cometic MLS head gaskets with Fel-Pro gaskets elsewhere
> A A A MSD Pro Billet distributor with bronze gear
> A A A Autolite 3923 spark plugs for street (moderate heat range),
> AR 3910
> A A for race (about 2 heat ranges colder than the 3923s)
> A A A 30 degrees total timing
> A A A Precision Proformance high port Pantera headers
> A A A 830 annular discharge Holley (from Mark's previous engine)
> A A Mark runs his Pantera in open road races and rarely drives it
> on the
> A A street.A His ZF has the original gearing so we wanted something
> that
> A A would pull well from 3500 to 7000+ RPM.A I designed the cam to
> A A maximize the power between 4000 and 7000 RPM, with a torque
> peak at
> A A around 5000 RPM.A I designed several cams using the Reed ULX
> lobes and
> A A the one chosen was the smallest (lowest overlap) and had the
> best power
> A A below 6000 RPM, along with the flattest torque curve.A The Reed
> ULX
> A A lobes are older designs that are relatively easy on the valve
> train so
> A A work well in endurance racing and marine applications.A Dave
> spent
> A A some time modifying the A331 intake.A A 1" thick open spacer
> was
> A A milled to level the carb and welded to the intake.A On top of
> that,
> A A several 1" spacers with an HVH 1 inch merge spacer working
> best.
> A A Dynomation was predicting a little under 600 HP and usually
> A A under-predicts the so I thought we'd hit 600 HP.A Final results
> were
> A A 623.1 HP at 6900 RPM and and 521.6 ft-lbs at 5100 RPM running
> through
> A A the 4-into-1 Pantera headers with 2 1/2" pipes and mufflers.A
> The
> A A torque curve is really flat in the operating RPM range.
> A A More details to follow...
> A A Dan Jones
> A A i
> A A A A [1]Posts: 236 | city, state or province, country: east
> haddam,
> A A On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:42 AM, "[8]cengles at cox.net"
> A A <[9]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> A A Dear Mark,
> A A A A A A A A A Ah, the McLain Shop.A I am curious about
> your experience.
> A A I anticipate that I will have them do some small work for me.A
> I was
> A A favorably impressed after a phone conversation with Dave.A Dan
> Jones'
> A A affliation is obviously a good sign.
> A A A A A A A A A What did you have them do on your
> engine?A Did you have a
> A A good experience?
> A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards,A Chuck
> Engles
> A A On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:17 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
> wrote:
> A A > I just had my engine shipped from Cuba, MO to CT for $300.00
> by R&L
> A A > Carriers. I picked it up at their terminal. 5 days.
> A A >
> A A >
> A A > Mark
> A A >
> A A > On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 6:18 AM, Mikael
> A A > <[2][10]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
> A A >
> A A >
> A A >A A Hi
> A A >
> A A >A A I may need to send a shortblock from St Louis Missouri
> to Atlanta
> A A >A A Georgia in a month or two. Size 31x25x21" weighs 157kg
> A A >
> A A >A A What freight companies would be worth contacting to get
> this done,
> A A >A A cheap and safe?
> A A >
> A A >
> A A >A A Thanks
> A A >
> A A >A A Mvh/Regards
> A A >
> A A >A A Mikael
> A A >
> A A > _______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >
> A A > DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > [3][11]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > [4][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A >
> A A >A A A ------------------------------
> A A >
> A A > _______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >
> A A > DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > [5][13]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > [6][14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1.
> [15]http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=29
> 40019434
> A A 2. mailto:[16]mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> A A 3. mailto:[17]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A 4. [18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A 5. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A 6. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [21]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_01.jpg
> 2. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/A331_vs_Torker_02.jpg
> 3. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/4V_intake_gasket_on_A3_head.jpg
> 4. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_exh_cropped.jpg
> 5. http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/danielcjones2/media/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/351C_head_comparison_b_int_cropped.jpg
> 6. http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l621/danielcjones2/351%20Cleveland%20Stuff/highport_comparison_cropped.jpg
> 7. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 8. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 9. mailto:cengles at cox.net
> 10. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 15. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=2940019434
> 16. mailto:mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:50:47 -0500
> From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
> <fresnofinches at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Flex-a-lite question
> Message-ID:
> <CANX29aWtfkAypZZZNE-2HFcbk0vBYHZhxQP3mHE448Sk3xaDuQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> To paraphrase an old Hewlett-Packard mantra, ?You cannot fix what you
> cannot measure."
>
> Jeff
> 6559
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike Short makes a good point when he mentions that Larry is assigning anthropomorphic
>> attributes to parts of his Pantera.( Anthropomorphism is the attribution
>> of *human characteristics to machines or animals). **If Larry (or anyone
>> else) thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is not
>> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the effectiveness of
>> the system in question. You can easily obtain a variety of devices that
>> are capable of measuring the actual airflow, rpm of the fan blades etc. As
>> an example for measuring CFM ( which can be useful for measuring air flow
>> for cooling or for air intake for the engine** , **Carburetion, **Fu**el
>> injection etc.) This link shows a small sample of some of the devices
>> .http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
>> <http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en>
>> This removes the question of wondering if your car or fans are"tired" and
>> replaces the *Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate and
>> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like to
>> assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe can
>> actually enhance the ownership experience when it comes to maintaining
>> peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on technology and not
>> asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Check your fan grounds.
>>> Jeff
>>> 6559
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch <[1]fresnofinches at aol.com
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A A All,
>>> A A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah fans are
>>> getting
>>> A A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic cooling.
>>> A A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a large
>>> jump in
>>> A A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway travel. 20-30
>>> degrees
>>> A A jump. Wasn't always that way.
>>> A A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron Francis
>>> radiator
>>> A A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
>>> A A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm, S-blades,
>>> etc.
>>> A A But I noted the online-available PDF installation sheet groups
>>> the 440
>>> A A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
>>> A A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
>>> black/black, fan to
>>> A A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black and
>>> black/red for
>>> A A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are expected
>>> to
>>> A A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always heard
>>> blades are
>>> A A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced efficiency
>>> when
>>> A A rotating opposite to the intended function.
>>> A A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this on
>>> Monday, but in
>>> A A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas, thoughts and
>>> A A suggestions.
>>> A A Thanks,
>>> A A Larry
>>> A A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in the
>>> archives) are
>>> A A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>>>
>>> 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> To paraphrase an old Hewlett-Packard mantra,A aYou cannot fix what you
> cannot measure."
> Jeff
> 6559
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:06 PM, Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A Mike Short makes a good point A when he mentions that Larry is
> assigning A anthropomorphic attributes to parts of his
> Pantera.(A A Anthropomorphism is the attribution ofA human
> characteristics to machines or animals). If Larry (or anyone else)
> A thinks that their automobiles fans ( or any other component ) is not
> operating up to specifications they can easily measure the
> effectiveness of the system in question. A You can easily obtain a
> variety of devices that are capable of measuring the actual airflow,
> rpm of the fan blades etc. As an example for measuring CFM ( which can
> be useful for measuring air flow for cooling or for A air intake for
> the engineA ,A Carburetion,A Fuel injection etc.) A This link A shows a
> small sample of some of the devices
> .[2]http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&
> oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en A This removes the question of
> wondering if your car or fans are"tired" A and replaces
> theA Anthropomorphic attributes with technically appropriate and
> scientifically accurate measurement devices. Although many of us like
> to assign a name and or a gender to our favorite "Toys" which I believe
> can actually enhance the ownership experience A when it comes to
> maintaining peak operating performance it is necessary to rely on
> technology and not asking our Cat " If it's a little tired"
> Boyd
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Detrich <[3]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A A Check your fan grounds.
> A A Jeff
> A A 6559
>
> A A On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Larry Finch
> <[1][4]fresnofinches at aol.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A A AA A All,
> A A A AA A I've come to the conclusion the Hall Pantera Meriah
> fans are
> A A A getting
> A A A AA A tired and are not up to the task of slow traffic
> cooling.
> A A A AA A I say this because in Summer/Winter I now always see a
> large
> A A A jump in
> A A A AA A temp when I get into city traffic versus highway
> travel. 20-30
> A A A degrees
> A A A AA A jump. Wasn't always that way.
> A A A AA A I would rather not remount the three-pass Quella/Ron
> Francis
> A A A radiator
> A A A AA A for sucker fans, so I'm looking at pushers.
> A A A AA A Felx-a-lite offers model 440 as a pusher. 2500 cfm,
> S-blades,
> A A A etc.
> A A A AA A But I noted the online-available PDF installation
> sheet groups
> A A A the 440
> A A A AA A pusher and the 420 puller in the same section.
> A A A AA A It instructs the 420 puller to be wired red/red and
> A A A black/black, fan to
> A A A AA A power source. And to reverse the wiring to red/black
> and
> A A A black/red for
> A A A AA A the 440 pusher model. This tells me the fan blades are
> expected
> A A A to
> A A A AA A perform whether rotating CW or CCW. But I've always
> heard
> A A A blades are
> A A A AA A optimal for one direction only, and show reduced
> efficiency
> A A A when
> A A A AA A rotating opposite to the intended function.
> A A A AA A I will try to talk with a Flex-a-lite tech about this
> on
> A A A Monday, but in
> A A A AA A the meantime I'm asking for any of your ideas,
> thoughts and
> A A A AA A suggestions.
> A A A AA A Thanks,
> A A A AA A Larry
> A A A AA A ......and no, I don't know why my emails (at least in
> the
> A A A archives) are
> A A A AA A now getting duplicated by the List software.
>
> A A A _______________________________________________
> A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A A [2][5]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A A [3][6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1. mailto:[7]fresnofinches at aol.com
>
> A A 2. mailto:[8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A 3. [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [10]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 2. http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=gmail&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=HVAC+cfm+meter&rls=en
> 3. mailto:jjdetrich at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 7. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
> 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 10. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 122, Issue 20
> *****************************************
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