[DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F sensor

Charles Engles cengles at cox.net
Mon Aug 18 19:50:49 EDT 2014


Dear Dave and Julian and all,


           Here is the succinct response from Innovate's technical support:

"Any M18x1.5 thread bung will work, it is industry standard.  You should
mount it 4-10" after the collector if possible."    


           OK, with all the help and comments and expertise, I am ready to
deal with this project.  Thanks everyone.


                            Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles




-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Londry [mailto:davel at emspace.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:39 PM
To: Charles Engles; doug351c at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F
sensor

Sorry - that was unclear Chuck.
The farther the sensor is from the exhaust outlets, the lower the low-rpm
limit at which you can read A/F.

The lower the rpm, the farther the exhaust reversions travel back up the
pipes.
(More time to travel and less opposing gas velocity) dave

On 17/08/2014 6:55 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
> Dear Dave,
>
>
>            So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting), 
> the further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
lower
> rpms.   Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e. just
> before the muffler?
>
>           I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest 
> sampling or testing unit.  Does that have any bearing on your 
> recommendation for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain better
readings?
>
>
>                            Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of 
> doug351c
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM
> To: Dave Londry; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for 
> A/F sensor
>
> Dave,
>
> By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?
>
> Doug Braun
> blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave 
> Londry
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for 
> A/F sensor
>
>
> That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,
>    the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which 
> you'll get stable A/F readings.
> The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.
> Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.
> dave
>
>
> On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>>      Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>                          Great minds think alike and experience makes the
>>      optimal location so much easier to pinpoint.   Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>                                          Warmest regards,  Chuck 
>> Engles
>>
>>
>>      From: SOBill at aol.com [mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
>>      Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM
>>      To: cengles at cox.net; detomaso at poca.com
>>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
for
>>      A/F sensor
>>
>>
>>      Chuck,
>>
>>
>>      The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
condensation
>>      does get to the sensor on startup.
>>
>>
>>      I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector because
my
>>      engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust pipe to
do
>>      the welding.
>>
>>
>>      SOBill
>>
>>
>>      The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
>>      Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
>>      Have fun today!
>>      SOBill
>>
>>
>>      In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>      [1]cengles at cox.net writes:
>>
>>        Dear Forum,
>>                            I will soon have both engines out of both
>>        Panteras for
>>        work.  It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add a
bung
>>        on the
>>        headers for use with and A/F meter sensor.    I have an email sent
>>        to
>>        Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend.    I
>>        assume that
>>        the bung should be welded into the end of the header collector.
>>                            Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal spot
>>        to put
>>        the bung?
>>                                                     Warmest regards,
Chuck
>>        Engles
>>           Dear Forum,
>>                               I will soon have both engines out of both
>>        Panteras
>>           for work.  It dawned on me that this would be a good time to
add
>>        a bung
>>           on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor.    I have an
>>        email
>>           sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the
>>        weekend.    I
>>           assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
header
>>           collector.
>>                               Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
>>        spot to
>>           put the bung?
>>                                                        Warmest regards,
>>        Chuck
>>           Engles
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>        DeTomaso mailing list
>>        [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>        [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>>      1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>>      2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>>      3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Dear Dave and Julian and all,

              Here is the succinct response from Innovate's technical
   support:

   "Any M18x1.5 thread bung will work, it is industry standard.  You
   should mount it 4-10" after the collector if possible."

              OK, with all the help and comments and expertise, I am ready
   to deal with this project.  Thanks everyone.

                               Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Dave Londry [[1]mailto:davel at emspace.com]
   Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:39 PM
   To: Charles Engles; doug351c at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for
   A/F sensor

   Sorry - that was unclear Chuck.

   The farther the sensor is from the exhaust outlets, the lower the
   low-rpm limit at which you can read A/F.

   The lower the rpm, the farther the exhaust reversions travel back up
   the pipes.

   (More time to travel and less opposing gas velocity) dave

   On 17/08/2014 6:55 PM, Charles Engles wrote:

   > Dear Dave,

   >

   >

   >            So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting),

   > the further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
   lower

   > rpms.   Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e.
   just

   > before the muffler?

   >

   >           I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest

   > sampling or testing unit.  Does that have any bearing on your

   > recommendation for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain
   better readings?

   >

   >

   >                            Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles

   >

   >

   >

   > -----Original Message-----

   > From: DeTomaso [[2]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of

   > doug351c

   > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM

   > To: Dave Londry; [3]detomaso at poca.com

   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
   for

   > A/F sensor

   >

   > Dave,

   >

   > By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?

   >

   > Doug Braun

   > blue 73L #5505

   >

   > -----Original Message-----

   > From: DeTomaso [[4]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave

   > Londry

   > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM

   > To: [5]detomaso at poca.com

   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
   for

   > A/F sensor

   >

   >

   > That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,

   >    the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which

   > you'll get stable A/F readings.

   > The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.

   > Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.

   > dave

   >

   >

   > On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:

   >>      Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike

   >>

   >>

   >>

   >>                          Great minds think alike and experience
   makes the

   >>      optimal location so much easier to pinpoint.   Thanks!

   >>

   >>

   >>

   >>                                          Warmest regards,  Chuck

   >> Engles

   >>

   >>

   >>      From: [6]SOBill at aol.com [[7]mailto:SOBill at aol.com]

   >>      Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM

   >>      To: [8]cengles at cox.net; [9]detomaso at poca.com

   >>      Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on
   headers for

   >>      A/F sensor

   >>

   >>

   >>      Chuck,

   >>

   >>

   >>      The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
   condensation

   >>      does get to the sensor on startup.

   >>

   >>

   >>      I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector
   because my

   >>      engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust
   pipe to do

   >>      the welding.

   >>

   >>

   >>      SOBill

   >>

   >>

   >>      The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

   >>      Do the best you can with what your have where you are.

   >>      Have fun today!

   >>      SOBill

   >>

   >>

   >>      In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight
   Time,

   >>      [1][10]cengles at cox.net writes:

   >>

   >>        Dear Forum,

   >>                            I will soon have both engines out of both

   >>        Panteras for

   >>        work.  It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add
   a bung

   >>        on the

   >>        headers for use with and A/F meter sensor.    I have an email
   sent

   >>        to

   >>        Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend.
   I

   >>        assume that

   >>        the bung should be welded into the end of the header
   collector.

   >>                            Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
   spot

   >>        to put

   >>        the bung?

   >>                                                     Warmest regards,
   Chuck

   >>        Engles

   >>           Dear Forum,

   >>                               I will soon have both engines out of
   both

   >>        Panteras

   >>           for work.  It dawned on me that this would be a good time
   to add

   >>        a bung

   >>           on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor.    I
   have an

   >>        email

   >>           sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the

   >>        weekend.    I

   >>           assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
   header

   >>           collector.

   >>                               Does anyone have knowledge of the
   optimal

   >>        spot to

   >>           put the bung?

   >>                                                        Warmest
   regards,

   >>        Chuck

   >>           Engles

   >>        _______________________________________________

   >>        Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

   >>        DeTomaso mailing list

   >>        [2][11]DeTomaso at poca.com

   >>        [3][12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   >>

   >> References

   >>

   >>      1. [13]mailto:cengles at cox.net

   >>      2. [14]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com

   >>      3. [15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   >>

   >>

   >>

   >> _______________________________________________

   >>

   >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

   >>

   >> DeTomaso mailing list

   >> [16]DeTomaso at poca.com

   >> [17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   >

   >

   > _______________________________________________

   >

   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

   >

   > DeTomaso mailing list

   > [18]DeTomaso at poca.com

   > [19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

   >

   >

   >

References

   1. mailto:davel at emspace.com
   2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
   7. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
   8. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  13. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


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