[DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers for A/F sensor
Jerry Knotts
knottsj at galstar.com
Mon Aug 18 09:14:17 EDT 2014
Chuck,
Speaking from dated information. A few years ago the sensor for the A/F
meter were more accurate or matched to the gauge. Most of the meters
come with a sensor that is matched to their electronics. A few years
ago when I built a DIY A/F meter kit the preferred sensor for that kit
was from a particular year and type of Honda.
Also speaking from dated info: The EFI only needs to know which
cylinder is rich or lean for its learning process. The Ford ECU for a
Mass Air strategy registers a reading for each exhaust pulse and
associates the pulse with a cylinder by using time in tube from exhaust
valve. It then varies the pulse width of that injector to richen or
lean the fuel for that cylinder. This usually occurs below 2000 rpm.
The sensor for a A/F meter needs to be able to tell "how" rich or lean
the mix is not "just" that it is rich or lean.
Able to confuse myself,
jerry knotts
On 8/18/2014 7:22 AM, cengles at cox.net wrote:
> Dear Julian,
>
> That is helpful and thank you. I am a bit confused as to
> whether there is difference between the sensor for the A/F ratio meter
> and the sensor for EFI. Are they both the same oxygen sensor?
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
>
> Some useful information in this installation guide;
>
> http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf
>
> Julian
>
> > From: cengles at cox.net
>
> > To: doug351c at gmail.com; davel at emspace.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 20:55:18 -0500
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for A/F sensor
>
> >
>
> > Dear Dave,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting),
> the
>
> > further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
> lower
>
> > rpms. Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e.
> just
>
> > before the muffler?
>
> >
>
> > I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest
>
> > sampling or testing unit. Does that have any bearing on your
> recommendation
>
> > for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain better readings?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
> doug351c
>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM
>
> > To: Dave Londry; detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for A/F
>
> > sensor
>
> >
>
> > Dave,
>
> >
>
> > By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?
>
> >
>
> > Doug Braun
>
> > blue 73L #5505
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave
> Londry
>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM
>
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
> for A/F
>
> > sensor
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,
>
> > the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which
> you'll
>
> > get stable A/F readings.
>
> > The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.
>
> > Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.
>
> > dave
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
>
> > > Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Great minds think alike and experience
> makes the
>
> > > optimal location so much easier to pinpoint. Thanks!
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Warmest regards, Chuck
> Engles
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > From: SOBill at aol.com [mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM
>
> > > To: cengles at cox.net; detomaso at poca.com
>
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on
> headers for
>
> > > A/F sensor
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Chuck,
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
> condensation
>
> > > does get to the sensor on startup.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector
> because my
>
> > > engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust
> pipe to do
>
> > > the welding.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > SOBill
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
>
> > > Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
>
> > > Have fun today!
>
> > > SOBill
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight
> Time,
>
> > > [1]cengles at cox.net writes:
>
> > >
>
> > > Dear Forum,
>
> > > I will soon have both engines out of both
>
> > > Panteras for
>
> > > work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add
> a bung
>
> > > on the
>
> > > headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I have an email
> sent
>
> > > to
>
> > > Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend.
> I
>
> > > assume that
>
> > > the bung should be welded into the end of the header
> collector.
>
> > > Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
> spot
>
> > > to put
>
> > > the bung?
>
> > > Warmest regards,
> Chuck
>
> > > Engles
>
> > > Dear Forum,
>
> > > I will soon have both engines out of
> both
>
> > > Panteras
>
> > > for work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time
> to add
>
> > > a bung
>
> > > on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I
> have an
>
> > > email
>
> > > sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the
>
> > > weekend. I
>
> > > assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
> header
>
> > > collector.
>
> > > Does anyone have knowledge of the
> optimal
>
> > > spot to
>
> > > put the bung?
>
> > > Warmest
> regards,
>
> > > Chuck
>
> > > Engles
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > > [2]DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > > [3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > >
>
> > > References
>
> > >
>
> > > 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
>
> > > 2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > > 3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > >
>
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> > >
>
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> >
>
> > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> >
>
> > DeTomaso mailing list
>
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Chuck,
Speaking from dated information. A few years ago the sensor for the
A/F meter were more accurate or matched to the gauge. Most of the
meters come with a sensor that is matched to their electronics. A few
years ago when I built a DIY A/F meter kit the preferred sensor for
that kit was from a particular year and type of Honda.
Also speaking from dated info: The EFI only needs to know which
cylinder is rich or lean for its learning process. The Ford ECU for a
Mass Air strategy registers a reading for each exhaust pulse and
associates the pulse with a cylinder by using time in tube from exhaust
valve. It then varies the pulse width of that injector to richen or
lean the fuel for that cylinder. This usually occurs below 2000 rpm.
The sensor for a A/F meter needs to be able to tell "how" rich or lean
the mix is not "just" that it is rich or lean.
Able to confuse myself,
jerry knotts
On 8/18/2014 7:22 AM, [1]cengles at cox.net wrote:
Dear Julian,
That is helpful and thank you. I am a bit confused as to
whether there is difference between the sensor for the A/F ratio meter
and the sensor for EFI. Are they both the same oxygen sensor?
Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Julian Kift wrote:
Some useful information in this installation guide;
[2]http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf
Julian
> From: [3]cengles at cox.net
> To: [4]doug351c at gmail.com; [5]davel at emspace.com; [6]detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 20:55:18 -0500
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
for A/F sensor
>
> Dear Dave,
>
>
> So to rephrase what you said (which is very interesting),
the
> further down the exhaust the better the sensor reads and reads at
lower
> rpms. Therefore, the best point is as far back as possible, i.e.
just
> before the muffler?
>
> I have read that the Innovate is supposed to be the fastest
> sampling or testing unit. Does that have any bearing on your
recommendation
> for a bung further down the exhaust pipe to obtain better readings?
>
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[7]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of
doug351c
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:17 PM
> To: Dave Londry; [8]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
for A/F
> sensor
>
> Dave,
>
> By "outlet" do you mean header collector flange?
>
> Doug Braun
> blue 73L #5505
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [[9]mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com]On Behalf Of Dave
Londry
> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:05 PM
> To: [10]detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on headers
for A/F
> sensor
>
>
> That is good stuff Chuck and giving all that info first priority,
> the farther you are from the outlet - the lower the rpm at which
you'll
> get stable A/F readings.
> The reversions in our short exhaust systems are really fierce.
> Below about 1700 rpm I get nothing but crap.
> dave
>
>
> On 17/08/2014 12:03 PM, Charles Engles wrote:
> > Dear SOBill, Jerry, Asa and Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > Great minds think alike and experience
makes the
> > optimal location so much easier to pinpoint. Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > Warmest regards, Chuck
Engles
> >
> >
> > From: [11]SOBill at aol.com [[12]mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 PM
> > To: [13]cengles at cox.net; [14]detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno Question: Bung placement on
headers for
> > A/F sensor
> >
> >
> > Chuck,
> >
> >
> > The bung should be mounted at the 12 o'clock position so
condensation
> > does get to the sensor on startup.
> >
> >
> > I welded mine on the exhaust pipe just after the collector
because my
> > engine was in the car and I could easily remove the exhaust
pipe to do
> > the welding.
> >
> >
> > SOBill
> >
> >
> > The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.
> > Do the best you can with what your have where you are.
> > Have fun today!
> > SOBill
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/17/2014 8:57:41 A.M. Pacific Daylight
Time,
> > [[15]1]cengles at cox.net writes:
> >
> > Dear Forum,
> > I will soon have both engines out of both
> > Panteras for
> > work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time to add
a bung
> > on the
> > headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I have an email
sent
> > to
> > Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the weekend.
I
> > assume that
> > the bung should be welded into the end of the header
collector.
> > Does anyone have knowledge of the optimal
spot
> > to put
> > the bung?
> > Warmest regards,
Chuck
> > Engles
> > Dear Forum,
> > I will soon have both engines out of
both
> > Panteras
> > for work. It dawned on me that this would be a good time
to add
> > a bung
> > on the headers for use with and A/F meter sensor. I
have an
> > email
> > sent to Innovate for their recommendations, but it is the
> > weekend. I
> > assume that the bung should be welded into the end of the
header
> > collector.
> > Does anyone have knowledge of the
optimal
> > spot to
> > put the bung?
> > Warmest
regards,
> > Chuck
> > Engles
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [[16]2]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [3][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. [18]mailto:cengles at cox.net
> > 2. [19]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 3. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [21]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [22]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [23]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [25]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
[28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
2. http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuinstal.pdf
3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
4. mailto:doug351c at gmail.com
5. mailto:davel at emspace.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
8. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
9. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
12. mailto:SOBill at aol.com
13. mailto:cengles at cox.net
14. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
15. mailto:1]cengles at cox.net
16. mailto:2]DeTomaso at poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. mailto:cengles at cox.net
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
22. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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