[DeTomaso] Ring bolts (again)

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Sat Apr 12 22:01:42 EDT 2014 

The Centerforce clutch that Steve and I use match perfectly to the Fidanza
flywheel.  I have the PN somewhere.  It is not a Pantera specific clutch.

As Steve said, the flywheel is not drilled for shoulder bolts, though.  If
you use normal flywheel bolts, the shoulder bottoms out.  It is close, but
not quite.

The first time I put everything together, I used 2 washers, and that worked
fine.  The last time I had everything apart, I was thinking about cutting
some of the threads to allow the use of shoulder bolts, but I didn¹t feel
comfortable doing that.  Instead, I used solid Rockmount inserts.
--
Will

From:  thomas <thomas at hax.se>
Date:  Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:28 PM
To:  "shawkins777 at comcast.net" <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
Cc:  Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>
Subject:  Re: [DeTomaso] Ring bolts (again)

Then you are not using the Pantera specific Centerforce clutch, which is
smaller than a stock 351C clutch and uses different mounting holes. The
clutch may have the same dimensions as a 5.0 Mustang clutch.

12 apr 2014 kl. 21:29 skrev shawkins777 at comcast.net:

> I have a Centerforce clutch and a Fidanza flywheel and the clutch bolted up to
> the flywheel with the existing bolt holes, no new holes were needed.  What you
> do have to pay attention to is the shoulder on the Ford bolts are too long and
> will bottom out before the clutch tightens against the flywheel.  I think Will
> Kooiman said that GM bolts will work.
> 
>  
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: thomas at hax.se, detomaso at poca.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:11:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ring bolts (again)
> 
> 
> In a message dated 4/12/14 9 31 11, thomas at hax.se writes:
> 
> 
>> > I'm getting ready to pull the ZF to see if it is the flywheel, or clutch
>> > that is causing the fairly violent vibrations I've had sine the latest
>> > engine rebuild, where I replaced the stuck flywheel and clutch with a
>> > Fidanza aluminum flywheel and Pantera specific Centerforce clutch.
>> > 
>>>> >>>Ah.   Ooh.   Er....
> 
> The Centerforce clutch uses a non-Ford bolt pattern, so you would have had
> to have a machine shop redrill the holes in the flywheel to accomodate the
> clutch.   It's very easy to get that job wrong; when that happens the car
> will shake like a wet dog and there's nothing you can do about it.
> 
> For that reason alone I am very much opposed to Centerforce clutches.
> 
> Chances are you could fix it by buing a very expensive Centerforce
> flywheel, or alternately, a slightly less expensive McLeod clutch that would
> bolt 
> right up to the original holes on the flywheel.
> 
> The Fidanza flywheel uses a removable balance weight so that you can have
> either 28.8 or 50.0 oz of imbalance, making it suitable for either style of
> Ford engine.   If you got that wrong, that could be the problem too.
>> > 
>>> > >The first time I had it out I drilled the old ring bolts and safety
>> > wired it, but I have decided to get new ARP bolts and redo it.
>> > 
>>>> >>>Why?   If it ain't broke don't fix it! :>)
>> > 
>>> > >So where to get the bolts and pan gasket?
>> > 
>>>> >>>ARP sells ZF ring gear bolts but does so under exclusive contract with
> Lloyd Butfoy.   They will not sell them via any other channels.
>> > 
>>> > >Someone mentioned ARP bolts for some Euro box (Rover?) that were of the
>> > correct size? Might be easier to get them around here.
>> > 
>>>>> > >>>As far as I know, the ones ARP makes for the ZF are completely
>>>>> unique.
> 
>>> > >By the way, I have now had help from a guy in the US to tune the EFI and
>> > it is like a new car :) In case anyone needs assistance tuning a stock
>> > Ford EFI I can recommend http://www.efidynotuning.com
>> > 
>>>> >>>Sounds great!
> 
> Now, if you can only fix that shaking problem....
> 
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> 
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> 
> DeTomaso mailing list
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-------------- next part --------------
   The Centerforce clutch that Steve and I use match perfectly to the
   Fidanza flywheel.  I have the PN somewhere.  It is not a Pantera
   specific clutch.
   As Steve said, the flywheel is not drilled for shoulder bolts, though.
    If you use normal flywheel bolts, the shoulder bottoms out.  It is
   close, but not quite.
   The first time I put everything together, I used 2 washers, and that
   worked fine.  The last time I had everything apart, I was thinking
   about cutting some of the threads to allow the use of shoulder bolts,
   but I didn't feel comfortable doing that.  Instead, I used solid
   Rockmount inserts.
   --
   Will

   From: thomas <[1]thomas at hax.se>
   Date: Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:28 PM
   To: "[2]shawkins777 at comcast.net" <[3]shawkins777 at comcast.net>
   Cc: Will Kooiman <[4]will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "[5]detomaso at poca.com"
   <[6]detomaso at poca.com>
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ring bolts (again)

   Then you are not using the Pantera specific Centerforce clutch, which
   is smaller than a stock 351C clutch and uses different mounting holes.
   The clutch may have the same dimensions as a 5.0 Mustang clutch.
   12 apr 2014 kl. 21:29 skrev [7]shawkins777 at comcast.net:

   I have a Centerforce clutch and a Fidanza flywheel and the clutch
   bolted up to the flywheel with the existing bolt holes, no new holes
   were needed.  What you do have to pay attention to is the shoulder on
   the Ford bolts are too long and will bottom out before the clutch
   tightens against the flywheel.  I think Will Kooiman said that GM bolts
   will work.


   Steve
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: [8]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   To: [9]thomas at hax.se, [10]detomaso at poca.com
   Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:11:36 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ring bolts (again)
   In a message dated 4/12/14 9 31 11, [11]thomas at hax.se writes:
   > I'm getting ready to pull the ZF to see if it is the flywheel, or
   clutch
   > that is causing the fairly violent vibrations I've had sine the
   latest
   > engine rebuild, where I replaced the stuck flywheel and clutch with a
   > Fidanza aluminum flywheel and Pantera specific Centerforce clutch.
   >
   >>>Ah.   Ooh.   Er....
   The Centerforce clutch uses a non-Ford bolt pattern, so you would have
   had
   to have a machine shop redrill the holes in the flywheel to accomodate
   the
   clutch.   It's very easy to get that job wrong; when that happens the
   car
   will shake like a wet dog and there's nothing you can do about it.
   For that reason alone I am very much opposed to Centerforce clutches.
   Chances are you could fix it by buing a very expensive Centerforce
   flywheel, or alternately, a slightly less expensive McLeod clutch that
   would bolt
   right up to the original holes on the flywheel.
   The Fidanza flywheel uses a removable balance weight so that you can
   have
   either 28.8 or 50.0 oz of imbalance, making it suitable for either
   style of
   Ford engine.   If you got that wrong, that could be the problem too.
   >
   > >The first time I had it out I drilled the old ring bolts and safety
   > wired it, but I have decided to get new ARP bolts and redo it.
   >
   >>>Why?   If it ain't broke don't fix it! :>)
   >
   > >So where to get the bolts and pan gasket?
   >
   >>>ARP sells ZF ring gear bolts but does so under exclusive contract
   with
   Lloyd Butfoy.   They will not sell them via any other channels.
   >
   > >Someone mentioned ARP bolts for some Euro box (Rover?) that were of
   the
   > correct size? Might be easier to get them around here.
   >
   > >>>As far as I know, the ones ARP makes for the ZF are completely
   unique.
   > >By the way, I have now had help from a guy in the US to tune the EFI
   and
   > it is like a new car :) In case anyone needs assistance tuning a
   stock
   > Ford EFI I can recommend [12]http://www.efidynotuning.com
   >
   >>>Sounds great!
   Now, if you can only fix that shaking problem....
   Mike
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References

   1. mailto:thomas at hax.se
   2. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
   3. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
   4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   7. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
   8. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   9. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  11. mailto:thomas at hax.se
  12. http://www.efidynotuning.com/
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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