[DeTomaso] ZF gear oil--another question
Christopher Kimball
chrisvkimball at msn.com
Sat Apr 12 19:09:40 EDT 2014
So with all this talk about ZF gear oil, let me ask a questions:
I have put about 25,000 miles on my ZF--the vast majority freeway miles (to Fun Rallies in Phoenix, Reno, etc.)--following safety-wiring and inspection. Am I OK in terms of gear oil, or is it time to change it?
Thanks,
Chris
From: thomas at hax.se
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 00:33:08 +0200
To: pantdino at aol.com
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> 12 apr 2014 kl. 19:12 skrev Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>:
>
> Thomas,
>
> "And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
>
> I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass, which is what synchros are made of or at least what they were made of back in the day.
I believe the synchros are all steel in the ZF.
>
> I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s, but the problem is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off it can tear off a few molecules of the metal. Over time this can result in gear wear.
>
> My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle. It is a 75W90 GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE transaxles but not rear wheel drive diffs.
>
> Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why GL4 oil is best for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or Ferrari unit. Or maybe it would be??
>
> Jim Oddie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
>
> Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> > I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
> >
> >
> >
> > Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
> >
> >
> >
> > But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying
> > "not so slippery" I presume.
> >
> > ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO
> > slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> > synchro wear.
> >
> >
> >
> > GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor
> > consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion
> > of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
>
> And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
> appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
>
> That said, I have always used Shell Getriebeöl, which is a fully
> synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
> oil. :)
>
> Thomas
>
> >
> >
> >
> > At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for
> > use in "brand F" transaxles.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Oddie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> > To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> > Mike,
> >
> > I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.
> Did
> > I miss something?
> >
> > Corey
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2]cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
> >>
> >> Also what is the best gear oil for
> >> my ZF transaxle?
> >>
> >>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
> >> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
> >> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
> >> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils are NOT
> >> created equal!
> >> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
> >> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
> >> (SAE 90 in Europe).
> >> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
> >> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
> >> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part. GL5
> >> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
> >> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
> >> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
> >> axle.
> >> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
> >> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have reliably
> >> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
> >> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
> >> [3]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> >> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
> >> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
> >> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
> >> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
> >> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
> >> Sta-Lube:
> >> [4]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> >> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
> >> [5]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> >> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF gearbox
> >> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
> >> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the hose
> >> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
> >> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the side,
> >> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
> >> to be sure, then you're really done.
> >> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [7]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > 2. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> > 3. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> > 4. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> > 5. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
> > 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 7. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
> >
>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 76 209 8320
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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DeTomaso mailing list
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-------------- next part --------------
So with all this talk about ZF gear oil, let me ask a questions:
I have put about 25,000 miles on my ZF--the vast majority freeway miles
(to Fun Rallies in Phoenix, Reno, etc.)--following safety-wiring and
inspection. Am I OK in terms of gear oil, or is it time to change it?
Thanks,
Chris
From: thomas at hax.se
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 00:33:08 +0200
To: pantdino at aol.com
CC: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> 12 apr 2014 kl. 19:12 skrev Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>:
>
> Thomas,
>
> "And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right?"
>
> I think that is not correct. "Yellow metal" refers to brass, which is what sy
nchros are made of or at least what they were made of back in the day.
I believe the synchros are all steel in the ZF.
>
> I read somewhere that GL5 oils coat the metal better than GL4s, but the proble
m is that the coating is so adherent that when it comes off it can tear off a fe
w molecules of the metal. Over time this can result in gear wear.
>
> My Abarth guru recommends Red Line MT-90 for my Fiat transaxle. It is a 75W90
GL4 oil that is recommended for gearboxes and FRONT-WHEEL DRIVE transaxles but
not rear wheel drive diffs.
>
> Unfortunately I don't know enough about transaxles to know why GL4 oil is best
for a Fiat transaxle but wouldn't be good for a ZF or Ferrari unit. Or maybe i
t would be??
>
> Jim Oddie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tornblom <thomas at hax.se>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 11:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
>
> Pantdino skrev 2014-04-12 08:14:
> > I think Mike misspoke / miswrote
> >
> >
> >
> > Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find
> >
> >
> >
> > But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying
> > "not so slippery" I presume.
> >
> > ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO
> > slippery for proper synchro function and will predispose to early
> > synchro wear.
> >
> >
> >
> > GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor
> > consideration in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion
> > of the ZF provided by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS
>
> And there is no "yellow metal" in our ZF:s, right? So GL5 would be
> appropriate, just as the owners manual says.
>
> That said, I have always used Shell Getriebeoel, which is a fully
> synthetic GL4, but will now switch to some GL5. Might even try this RL
> oil. :)
>
> Thomas
>
> >
> >
> >
> > At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for
> > use in "brand F" transaxles.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Oddie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> > To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
> > Mike,
> >
> > I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.
> Did
> > I miss something?
> >
> > Corey
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [1]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [2]cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
> >>
> >> Also what is the best gear oil for
> >> my ZF transaxle?
> >>
> >>>>> This is a very important question. I think there is a tendancy
> >> among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
> >> but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
> >> attention to the manufacturer's recommendations. All gear oils are NOT
> >> created equal!
> >> In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
> >> The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
> >> (SAE 90 in Europe).
> >> 7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
> >> While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
> >> difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part. GL5
> >> oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
> >> synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
> >> gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
> >> axle.
> >> If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
> >> the shelf but none of it will be GL5. The only place I have reliably
> >> found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
> >> Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
> >> [3][1]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> >> It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
> >> there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
> >> a gallon jug. My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
> >> to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
> >> While you're at it, you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
> >> Sta-Lube:
> >> [4][2]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> >> Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
> >> [5][3]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.ht
ml
> >> Using this pump has transformed my life. Normally filling a ZF gearbox
> >> is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
> >> profanity. This turns it into a breeze. Just put the end of the hose
> >> in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
> >> pumping until you feel silly. When oil starts drooling out the side,
> >> you're done. Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
> >> to be sure, then you're really done.
> >> Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> [6]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> [7][4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [8]DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [9][5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > 2. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
> > 3. [6]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
> > 4. [7]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
> > 5. [8]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.ht
ml
> > 6. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 7. [9]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> > 8. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> > 9. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > [11]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:5348d9dc3863307228636!
> >
>
>
> --
> Real life: Thomas Toernblom Email: thomas at hax.se
> Snail mail: Banvallsvaegen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Cellular: +46 76 209 8320
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> !DSPAM:5349742617366153625052!
_______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
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References
1. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
2. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
3. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
6. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
7. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
8. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
9. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
11. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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