[DeTomaso] ZF gear oil

Tom Shinrock tmshinro at aol.com
Sat Apr 12 13:35:12 EDT 2014


 I used Redline MTL (manual transmission/transaxle lubrication).  It was 70w80 GL-4.  I can't remember if I added a limited slip additive or not.

With the Redline in the ZF I had to overcome some resistance when I shifted into 4th and 5th.  There was no grinding just a harder pull than normal.  With the non-synthetic oil it slips right in to those gears.

Tom
5186

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
To: tmshinro <tmshinro at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil


Which Redline oil did you use?
 
If it was the NS version the noise you heard was the limited slip clutches binding a bit.  Adding a bit of limited slip additive will make the oil a bit more slippery so the clutches don't make that noise.
At least that would be one scientific explanation.
 
Most people find the box shifts better with synthetic oil.  Scientifically it should when it is cold because syn oils are less viscous when cold than dinosaur oils.  But the "shifts better" is such a subjective feeling I'm not sure it means anything.
 
Jim
 
 
 
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 10:06 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil


   I can add a data point here.   I put Redline synthetic gear oil in my
   ZF two years ago.  Not long after that my trans started making a
   groaning noise whenever I started from a dead stop and was making a
   turn (like turning at a four way stop).  The groan was lower in pitch
   and louder than the typical gear whine and went away after completing
   the turn.
   I had my windshield replaced last summer by Cory Gehling.  I mentioned
   this groaning noise and he asked when the last time I changed gear oil.
   I told him that I had put in the Redline synthetic only a year prior
   and he said that his experience was that the ZF doesn't work as well
   with synthetic oils because they were too slippery.  He replaced the
   Redline with non-synthetic oil (Castrol I think) and the groan was
   gone.   Shifting became much smoother too.
   Now I know my limited slip clutches are non-functional so that might
   make my situation atypical but my car run much better after making the
   oil switch.
   YRMV
   Tom
   5186

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>; De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 10:01 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
   Redline Oils have a good reputation, I use the Redline 75/90NS in the
   Pantera and the Porsche G50 transaxle of the Ultima as highly recommend
   by the Porsche guys.
   We had a local tech session only a week ago where our POCA chapter
   purchased the oil to promote everyone changing their ZF fluid. The
   amount of people that had either not changed it for a long time or even
   never done it was surprising, considering the effects that have been
   posted on numerous occasions. One local members ZF is with Lloyd for
   that exact reason, not used and not rotated or oil changed and rust on
   the exposed portion of the gears.
   Someone contacted Lloyd and he had recommended the Valvoline 80W90
   which as it turns out is available as a NAPA branded oil as well at
   lower cost than the Valvoline branded equivalent.
   Julian
   To: coreyjprice at gmail.com; MikeLDrew at aol.com
   From: pantdino at aol.com
   Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 02:14:10 -0400
   CC: detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil

I think Mike misspoke / miswrote

Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find

But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying "not so sli
ppery" I presume.
ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO slippery fo
r proper synchro function and will predispose to early synchro wear.

GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor considerat
ion in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion of the ZF provided
by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS

At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for use in "br
and F" transaxles.

Jim Oddie

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey Price <coreyjprice at gmail.com>
To: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil


Mike,

I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.  Did
I miss something?

Corey



> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>
>   In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
>
>     Also what is the best gear oil for
>     my ZF transaxle?
>
>>>> This is a very important question.  I think there is a tendancy
>   among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
>   but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
>   attention to the manufacturer's recommendations.  All gear oils are NOT
>   created equal!
>   In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
>   The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
>   (SAE 90 in Europe).
>   7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
>   While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
>   difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part.  GL5
>   oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
>   synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
>   gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
>   axle.
>   If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
>   the shelf but none of it will be GL5.  The only place I have reliably
>   found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
>   Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
>   [1]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
>   It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
>   there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
>   a gallon jug.  My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
>   to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
>   While you're at it,  you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
>   Sta-Lube:
>   [2]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
>   Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
>   [3]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
>   Using this pump has transformed my life.  Normally filling a ZF gearbox
>   is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
>   profanity.  This turns it into a breeze.  Just put the end of the hose
>   in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
>   pumping until you feel silly.  When oil starts drooling out the side,
>   you're done.  Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
>   to be sure, then you're really done.
>   Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> [4]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
[5]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com



   _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
   by POCA DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso at poca.com
   http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
   2. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
   3. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
   4. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   5. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

 
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

 

-------------- next part --------------
   I used Redline MTL (manual transmission/transaxle lubrication).  It was
   70w80 GL-4.  I can't remember if I added a limited slip additive or
   not.
   With the Redline in the ZF I had to overcome some resistance when I
   shifted into 4th and 5th.  There was no grinding just a harder pull
   than normal.  With the non-synthetic oil it slips right in to those
   gears.
   Tom
   5186

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
   To: tmshinro <tmshinro at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 12:20 pm
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
   Which Redline oil did you use?

   If it was the NS version the noise you heard was the limited slip
   clutches binding a bit.  Adding a bit of limited slip additive will
   make the oil a bit more slippery so the clutches don't make that noise.
   At least that would be one scientific explanation.

   Most people find the box shifts better with synthetic oil.
   Scientifically it should when it is cold because syn oils are less
   viscous when cold than dinosaur oils.  But the "shifts better" is such
   a subjective feeling I'm not sure it means anything.

   Jim




   -----Original Message-----
   From: Tom Shinrock <[1]tmshinro at aol.com>
   To: detomaso <[2]detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 10:06 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
   I can add a data point here.   I put Redline synthetic gear oil in my
   ZF two years ago.  Not long after that my trans started making a
   groaning noise whenever I started from a dead stop and was making a
   turn (like turning at a four way stop).  The groan was lower in pitch
   and louder than the typical gear whine and went away after completing
   the turn.
   I had my windshield replaced last summer by Cory Gehling.  I mentioned
   this groaning noise and he asked when the last time I changed gear oil.
   I told him that I had put in the Redline synthetic only a year prior
   and he said that his experience was that the ZF doesn't work as well
   with synthetic oils because they were too slippery.  He replaced the
   Redline with non-synthetic oil (Castrol I think) and the groan was
   gone.   Shifting became much smoother too.
   Now I know my limited slip clutches are non-functional so that might
   make my situation atypical but my car run much better after making the
   oil switch.
   YRMV
   Tom
   5186

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
   To: Pantdino <[4]pantdino at aol.com>; De Tomaso List <[5]detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Sat, Apr 12, 2014 10:01 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil
   Redline Oils have a good reputation, I use the Redline 75/90NS in the
   Pantera and the Porsche G50 transaxle of the Ultima as highly recommend
   by the Porsche guys.
   We had a local tech session only a week ago where our POCA chapter
   purchased the oil to promote everyone changing their ZF fluid. The
   amount of people that had either not changed it for a long time or even
   never done it was surprising, considering the effects that have been
   posted on numerous occasions. One local members ZF is with Lloyd for
   that exact reason, not used and not rotated or oil changed and rust on
   the exposed portion of the gears.
   Someone contacted Lloyd and he had recommended the Valvoline 80W90
   which as it turns out is available as a NAPA branded oil as well at
   lower cost than the Valvoline branded equivalent.
   Julian
   To: [6]coreyjprice at gmail.com; [7]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   From: [8]pantdino at aol.com
   Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 02:14:10 -0400
   CC: [9]detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil

I think Mike misspoke / miswrote

Most gear oil is GL5 and it is GL4 that is hard to find

But the best oil for the ZF is Red Line 75W90NS--- the NS signifying "not so sli
ppery" I presume.
ANY oil that says it is OK to use in a limited slip diff will be TOO slippery fo
r proper synchro function and will predispose to early synchro wear.

GL4 oil is better for "yellow metal" gears but this is a fairly minor considerat
ion in comparison to better lubrication for the diff portion of the ZF provided
by the GL5 Red Line 75W90NS

At least this was the conclusion reached by the ferrarichat group for use in "br
and F" transaxles.

Jim Oddie

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey Price <[10]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
To: MikeLDrew <[11]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <[12]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] ZF gear oil


Mike,

I thought GL-4 was the recommended oil, per Lloyd's website "FAQ" section.  Did
I miss something?

Corey



> On Apr 11, 2014, at 9:41 PM, [13]MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>
>   In a message dated 4/11/14 12 32 13, [14]cwhamm at frontier.com writes:
>
>     Also what is the best gear oil for
>     my ZF transaxle?
>
>>>> This is a very important question.  I think there is a tendancy
>   among many people to just grab any old gear oil and throw it in there,
>   but the nature of a transaxle demands that one pays very close
>   attention to the manufacturer's recommendations.  All gear oils are NOT
>   created equal!
>   In this case, the first thing to do is RTFM.
>   The manual specifically calls for SAE 80, AP GL5
>   (SAE 90 in Europe).
>   7 1/2 pints of the stuff.
>   While it is very easy to find SAE 80-90 gear oil, it is surprisingly
>   difficult to find *GL5* gear oil, and that's the important part.  GL5
>   oil has specific characteristics designed to work with the types of
>   synchros that our gearboxes have, which are different from most other
>   gearboxes, and definitely different from a typical differential/rear
>   axle.
>   If you go to most auto parts stores, there will be lots of gear oil on
>   the shelf but none of it will be GL5.  The only place I have reliably
>   found GL5 is NAPA auto parts; it is made by Sta-Lube/CRC.
>   Here is the exact link to what you should buy:
>   [1][15]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
>   It is normally sold in pints or gallons; since you need 7.5 pints and
>   there are 8 pints in a gallon, obviously it is to your advantage to buy
>   a gallon jug.  My local NAPA store used to carry them, but I just had
>   to order a jug a couple of weeks ago as they only have pints now.
>   While you're at it,  you might as well buy a gear oil pump, also by
>   Sta-Lube:
>   [2][16]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
>   Harbor Freight has a better picture of it:
>   [3][17]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
>   Using this pump has transformed my life.  Normally filling a ZF gearbox
>   is a painful experience involving a lot of spilled gear oil and
>   profanity.  This turns it into a breeze.  Just put the end of the hose
>   in the side of the gearbox (where it's cleverly retained), and start
>   pumping until you feel silly.  When oil starts drooling out the side,
>   you're done.  Let it sit for a few minutes, give a few more pumps just
>   to be sure, then you're really done.
>   Mike (going to change my gearbox oil tomorrow as a matter of fact....)
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [18]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [4][19]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
[20]DeTomaso at poca.com
[5][21]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com



   _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum Managed
   by POCA DeTomaso mailing list [22]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. [24]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
   2. [25]http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
   3. [26]http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
   4. [27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   5. [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
[29]DeTomaso at poca.com
[30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
[31]DeTomaso at poca.com
[32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. mailto:tmshinro at aol.com
   2. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   3. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
   4. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   6. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
   7. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   8. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  10. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
  11. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  14. mailto:cwhamm at frontier.com
  15. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
  16. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
  17. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
  18. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  19. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  21. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  24. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL2473
  25. http://www.crcindustries.com/ei/product_detail.aspx?id=SL4344
  26. http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-gear-fluid-oil-pump-40714.html
  27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com


More information about the DeTomaso mailing list