[DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control armbushings to increase caster?

Tomas Gunnarsson guson at home.se
Thu Apr 3 07:27:32 EDT 2014 

When you do that it increases KPI. This leads to increased camber loss
on the outside wheel when you make a turn, this is not desirable.
 
Tomas

<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->

 	  	 From: Thomas Tornblom [thomas at hax.se]
Sent: 3/4/2014 11:39:16 AM
To: guson at home.se
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
armbushings to increase caster? 

haha, yes, that was implied :) 

Thomas 

2014-04-03 10:58, Tomas Gunnarsson skrev: 
> You would have to change the knuckle too unless you want crazy camber.
>
http://www.njstangers.org/attachments/forum/nj-stangers-lounge-67/8080d1
372256075-carbage-camber.jpg 
> :-D 
> Tomas 
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> 
> *From: thomas [thomas at hax.se]* 
> Sent: 2/4/2014 9:20:57 PM 
> To: jderyke at aol.com 
> Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com;detomaso at poca.com 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control 
> armbushings to increase caster? 
> 
> Marino's bushings are offset both upper and lower, in opposite 
> directions naturally. 
> 
> What about shortening the upper A-arm and move the upper ball joint 
> inwards to reduce the scrub radius? 
> 
> Would this mess up the front end geometry? 
> 
> Thomas 
> 
> > 2 apr 2014 kl. 21:53 skrev jderyke at aol.com: 
> > 
> > With all the upper ball-joint shims on one side PLUS offset upper
a-arm 
> > bushings, the total negative caster will be around -4.6 or so
degrees. 
> > If you need more than that, also installing offset LOWER a-arm
bushings 
> > (offset the other way) adds another couple of negative degrees.
Having 
> > a machine shop mill about 0.080"-or-so off one side of the upper
ball 
> > joint carrier can add yet another degree (you'll then need a new
0.080" 
> > thick shim). Once the bushings are in place, you can fine-tune the 
> > caster setting by moving upper ball-joint shims around. But
remember- 
> > as caster goes up (negative), steering effort also goes up.
Corvettes 
> > and other high-speed sports cars run a maximum of -7 degrees caster,
> > but they also use power steering to lessen the resulting steering
wheel 
> > load. 
> > Judy and I find that - 4.5 degrees is an excellent compromise in our
> > '72L with 245-50 front tires over the maximum stock setting of about
> > -2.6 degrees. And after everything is done, the front wheels will 
> > definitely need to be re-aligned. While this is going on, check
front 
> > brake hose routing so no tire rubbing occurs, and that large tires
do 
> > not contact the right side wiper shield at full-lock. I've had
offset 
> > upper bushings in place so long on our car, I can't remember how it 
> > steered before. 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> 
> > To: cengles <cengles at cox.net> 
> > Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com> 
> > Sent: Wed, Apr 2, 2014 12:30 pm 
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
arm 
> > bushings to increase caster? 
> > Chuck, 
> > Marino said they only provide maybe one additional degree of 
> > caster. Did you do something more than just make one end thinner? 
> > Seems like you can only get maybe 1/8 inch (1/4 inch total) of 
> > shifting? I'm not sure what the separation between ball joints is,
but 
> > that looks like less than 2 degrees of added caster? 
> > Ken 
> > From: "[1]cengles at cox.net" <[2]cengles at cox.net> 
> > To: [3]kenn_green at yahoo.com 
> > Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com 
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:33 AM 
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
arm 
> > bushings to increase caster? 
> > Dear Ken, 
> > 1) no experience with Marino's offset bushings 
> > 2) The offset homemade bushings I have provide 5 degrees 
> > of 
> > positive caster with major improvement in handling and high speed 
> > stability. Highly recommended 
> > 3) Marino is a good guy and a reliable, reputable vendor 
> > in my opinion. 
> > Go buy'em, Chuck Engles 
> >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Ken Green wrote: 
> >> Can anyone comment of the benefitA and durability ofA Marino's 
> > offset 
> > front control armA bushings?A 
> >> 
> >> Thanks, 
> >> 
> >> Ken 
> >> 
> >> ------------------------------ 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________ 
> >> 
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> >> 
> >> DeTomaso mailing list 
> >> [1][5]DeTomaso at poca.com 
> >> [2][6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> > DeTomaso mailing list 
> > [3][7]DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > [4][8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 
> > References 
> > 
> > 1. [9]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > 2. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 3. [11]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > 4. [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list 
> > [13]DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 
> > References 
> > 
> > 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net 
> > 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net 
> > 3. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com 
> > 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com 
> > 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com? 
> > 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com? 
> > 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > 14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list 
> > DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> > 
> > 
> > !DSPAM:533c6ad85441343511756! 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> 
> DeTomaso mailing list 
> DeTomaso at poca.com 
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com 
> . 
> 
> !DSPAM:533d22af230011228817372! 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________ 
> Annons: Hitta kärleken på Mötesplatsen.se - Bli medlem Gratis nu 
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Id=1;link=http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanner_id=472391
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> 
> 


-- 
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Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18 
S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320 
	


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-------------- next part --------------
   When you do that it increases KPI. This leads to increased camber loss
   on the outside wheel when you make a turn, this is not desirable.



   Tomas
   <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->

       From: Thomas Tornblom [thomas at hax.se]
   Sent: 3/4/2014 11:39:16 AM
   To: guson at home.se
   Cc: detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
   armbushings to increase caster?
   haha, yes, that was implied :)
   Thomas
   2014-04-03 10:58, Tomas Gunnarsson skrev:
   > You would have to change the knuckle too unless you want crazy
   camber.
   >
   http://www.njstangers.org/attachments/forum/nj-stangers-lounge-67/8080d
   1372256075-carbage-camber.jpg
   > :-D
   > Tomas
   >
   > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   > *From: thomas [thomas at hax.se]*
   > Sent: 2/4/2014 9:20:57 PM
   > To: jderyke at aol.com
   > Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com;detomaso at poca.com
   > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
   > armbushings to increase caster?
   >
   > Marino's bushings are offset both upper and lower, in opposite
   > directions naturally.
   >
   > What about shortening the upper A-arm and move the upper ball joint
   > inwards to reduce the scrub radius?
   >
   > Would this mess up the front end geometry?
   >
   > Thomas
   >
   > > 2 apr 2014 kl. 21:53 skrev jderyke at aol.com:
   > >
   > > With all the upper ball-joint shims on one side PLUS offset upper
   a-arm
   > > bushings, the total negative caster will be around -4.6 or so
   degrees.
   > > If you need more than that, also installing offset LOWER a-arm
   bushings
   > > (offset the other way) adds another couple of negative degrees.
   Having
   > > a machine shop mill about 0.080"-or-so off one side of the upper
   ball
   > > joint carrier can add yet another degree (you'll then need a new
   0.080"
   > > thick shim). Once the bushings are in place, you can fine-tune the
   > > caster setting by moving upper ball-joint shims around. But
   remember-
   > > as caster goes up (negative), steering effort also goes up.
   Corvettes
   > > and other high-speed sports cars run a maximum of -7 degrees
   caster,
   > > but they also use power steering to lessen the resulting steering
   wheel
   > > load.
   > > Judy and I find that - 4.5 degrees is an excellent compromise in
   our
   > > '72L with 245-50 front tires over the maximum stock setting of
   about
   > > -2.6 degrees. And after everything is done, the front wheels will
   > > definitely need to be re-aligned. While this is going on, check
   front
   > > brake hose routing so no tire rubbing occurs, and that large tires
   do
   > > not contact the right side wiper shield at full-lock. I've had
   offset
   > > upper bushings in place so long on our car, I can't remember how it
   > > steered before.
   > >
   > > -----Original Message-----
   > > From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
   > > To: cengles <cengles at cox.net>
   > > Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
   > > Sent: Wed, Apr 2, 2014 12:30 pm
   > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
   arm
   > > bushings to increase caster?
   > > Chuck,
   > > Marino said they only provide maybe one additional degree of
   > > caster. Did you do something more than just make one end thinner?
   > > Seems like you can only get maybe 1/8 inch (1/4 inch total) of
   > > shifting? I'm not sure what the separation between ball joints is,
   but
   > > that looks like less than 2 degrees of added caster?
   > > Ken
   > > From: "[1]cengles at cox.net" <[2]cengles at cox.net>
   > > To: [3]kenn_green at yahoo.com
   > > Cc: [4]detomaso at poca.com
   > > Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:33 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Any experience with Marino's offset control
   arm
   > > bushings to increase caster?
   > > Dear Ken,
   > > 1) no experience with Marino's offset bushings
   > > 2) The offset homemade bushings I have provide 5 degrees
   > > of
   > > positive caster with major improvement in handling and high speed
   > > stability. Highly recommended
   > > 3) Marino is a good guy and a reliable, reputable vendor
   > > in my opinion.
   > > Go buy'em, Chuck Engles
   > >> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Ken Green wrote:
   > >> Can anyone comment of the benefitA and durability ofA Marino's
   > > offset
   > > front control armA bushings?A
   > >>
   > >> Thanks,
   > >>
   > >> Ken
   > >>
   > >> ------------------------------
   > >>
   > >> _______________________________________________
   > >>
   > >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >>
   > >> DeTomaso mailing list
   > >> [1][5]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > >> [2][6]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > _______________________________________________
   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > > DeTomaso mailing list
   > > [3][7]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > [4][8]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > > References
   > >
   > > 1. [9]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > 2. [10]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > 3. [11]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > 4. [12]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > > _______________________________________________
   > >
   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >
   > > DeTomaso mailing list
   > > [13]DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > > References
   > >
   > > 1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   > > 2. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   > > 3. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   > > 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
   > > 5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > 6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > 7. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > 8. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > 9. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
   > > 10. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > 11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com?
   > > 12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > > 13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > 14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > _______________________________________________
   > >
   > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   > >
   > > DeTomaso mailing list
   > > DeTomaso at poca.com
   > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > >
   > >
   > > !DSPAM:533c6ad85441343511756!
   >
   > _______________________________________________
   >
   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   >
   > DeTomaso mailing list
   > DeTomaso at poca.com
   > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   > .
   >
   > !DSPAM:533d22af230011228817372!
   >
   > _______________________________________________________________
   > Annons: Hitta kaerleken paa Moetesplatsen.se - Bli medlem Gratis nu
   >
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   nId=1;link=http://rms.admeta.com/public/transfer.asp?sitebanner_id=4723
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   >
   --
   Real life: Thomas Toernblom Email: thomas at hax.se
   Snail mail: Banvallsvaegen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
   S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320

   _______________________________________________________________
   Annons: [1]Hitta kaerleken paa Moetesplatsen.se Bli medlem Gratis nu

References

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