[DeTomaso] Fwd: Radiator Caps

Thu Sep 19 00:18:58 EDT 2013

Jeff,
If you recall, I had conversations with Gary last year after receiving
two damaged radiators from Summit Racing.  Gary worked with me to
understand the failures in the packaging and made them better.  I also
noted deficiencies in the assembly of the radiators, which he promptly
went out and saw for himself.  They cleaned up the processes and they
improved the packaging.  Gary was pleasant to work with and very
accommodating considering the Pantera is a small niche.

Kudos to Fluidyne for their customer service.
Asa Jay

Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
& Shelley Marie
Spokane, WA
******************************     
http://www.racingagainstautism.com
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism

On 9/18/2013 9:36 AM, Jeff Detrich wrote:
> Pantera tech manual says 13# and 0#. I seem to remember 16#  being the
> conventional wisdom. What do the vendors say?
>
> I spoke with Gary Johnson at Fluidyne. The older style FHB30 can withstand
>
> 27-30#. The newer FHB35 can take 40#. Higher is better but the radiator is
>
> usually not the weak link so its max pressure shouldn't be the limiting
> factor. More pressure is better because you can run higher temps
> (temperature is not heat - a higher temp differential between the fluid and
> the air sheds heat faster than a lower temp differential, that's why it's
> better to run fluid faster thru the tubes) and it helps purge air from the
>
> system (pressure foces gas back into liquid state). Interestingly, he said
>
> that their testing on the Pantera showed that it really makes no difference
> if the incoming fluid is attached to the upper or lower inlet/outlet pipes
>
> in terms of efficiency or in terms of purging air from the system.
>
> I didn't know they had a new radiator for the Pantera. The old one, which I
> have, had 3 rows of 1" tubing. The new one has 5 rows of 5/8 inch tubing.
> Tubing size is important because the hot liquid flows thru the center of
> the tube, there is a boundary layer of fluid at the tube that keeps the
> really hot fluid from reaching the tube. That's why he switched to smaller
>
> tubing - less boundary layer, higher temp differential. Also, a smaller
> tube can take higher pressure.  Lastly, he said that we need to have
> a thermostat or restrictor plate in the engine as it makes the water pump
> more efficient.
>
> He was really interesting to talk to and is proud of his support for the
> Pantera community. Incidentally, Fluidynes are made in the good ole US of A!
>
> Jeff
> 6559
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:33 AM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just found this at Stewart gauges website.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> *Tech Tip #2 - Radiator Caps
>>
>> Radiator Caps*
>> In a cooling system, a higher pressure equates to a higher boiling point
>> for the coolant. Higher coolant pressures also transfer heat from the
>> cylinder heads more efficiently. We recommend using a radiator cap with the
>> highest pressure rating that the radiator is designed to accept. In
>> general, performance radiators will accept 22-24 PSI, and professional
>> racing radiators will accept a 29-31 PSI.
>>
>> The coolant will typically only build to 16-18 PSI, due to expansion up to
>> 200°F. However, if the engine does overheat due to external factors, the
>> pressure inside the cooling system could reach as high as 28 PSI. Once the
>> radiator cap has opened and vented coolant, the engine will not cool down
>> until it has been turned off. The radiator cap is basically a "safety
>> valve", so always use the highest pressure radiator cap that the radiator
>> will tolerate. If you are unsure of the pressure rating for your radiator,
>> check with the manufacturer for the maximum recommended operating pressure.
>>
>>
>> *Radiator Cap Location
>> *The radiator cap should always be located at the highest point of the
>> cooling system, and on the low pressure side (after the radiator
>> core).Cross flow radiators mounted higher than the engine are ideal because
>> the cap is on the tank that is connected to the water pump inlet. This
>> configuration offers 3 advantages:
>>
>>   1.The cap is at the highest point of the system, allowing any air to
>> migrate to the area just below the cap. In the event the cap vents due to
>> excessive pressure, the air will escape first. 2. This area has the lowest
>> velocity within the system, allowing air to separate from coolant even at
>> high engine RPM. 3. The cap is located on the low pressure (suction) side
>> of the system, so it is unaffected by the pressure generated by the water
>> pump.
>> For cooling systems NOT using a cross flow radiator, mounted higher than
>> the engine, you must use a surge tank. A surge tank is typically a 1 quart
>> tank mounted at the highest point of the system, with the radiator cap on
>> top. The bottom of the tank is connected to the inlet side of the water
>> pump with a 1/2" or 3/4" line. A 1/4" to 3/8" "bleed" line from the side of
>> the surge tank is connected to the highest point of the low pressure side
>> of the radiator. The bleed line allows some circulation through the tank
>> while the engine is running. The surge tank is also large enough to allow
>> the air to separate as the coolant flows through it. Air in the system will
>> then migrate to the area just below the radiator cap, again so that it will
>> forced out first if system pressure exceeds the radiator cap's rating.
>>
>> In street car applications, an upright radiator (top and bottom tanks, with
>> the cap on the top tank) represents a compromise that will work, as long as
>> the car is not operated at sustained high RPM, like those seen in racing.
>>
>> *Any aftermarket thermostat housing that mounts the radiator cap directly
>> above the thermostat location, or that mount the radiator cap in the top
>> coolant hose, are NOT recommended. Both of those housing styles are poorly
>> designed, and will push coolant out of the cap at high RPM.
>> *
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:28 AM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Every pound of pressure raises the boiling point of water 3 degrees. if
>>> your system is designed for 10 psi and the cap is capable of holding that
>>> you have increased the boiling point 30 degrees.
>>>
>>> So a 16 psi cap could stand a temp of  260 degrees, whereas 22 psi could
>>> handle up to  278 degrees.
>>>
>>> I guess none of us want temps anywhere near 260 anyway, so perhaps the
>>> lower rated cap is sufficient.
>>>
>>> The next point then becomes, if the cap fails to release the pressure,
>>> then something else might, like a hose, gasket, etc.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Overflow is zero pressure cap.
>>>>
>>>> But why so high - 22PSI - on the surge tank cap?
>>>>
>>>> Larry
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>> www.michaelshortt.com
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> 912-232-9390
>>>
>>>
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified
>>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that
>> you
>>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
>> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3222/6178 - Release Date: 09/18/13
>
>
>