[DeTomaso] FW: A/C test results

Thu May 16 20:16:20 EDT 2013

James,

>From the guys in the Pantera ebay listing section.   They had a 99.6
positive feedback on 3000+ transactions and I did some research and could
only find positive things about them.  It appears to be a one man operation
that has someone else make them for him.  They sell them for all different
types of cars. 

I didn't have a later stock condenser to compare the tube count but for the
71 there are 30 percent more tubes that are smaller than the stock unit
tubes.  If you have the larger condenser you could most likely count the
tubes on the ebay picture and compare.  I'd like to know what you find on
the tube count. 

If possible, I'd recommend switching your hoses over to O ring, but they
also can be ordered with the stock flair fittings if you need them.  I was a
bit unsure about ordering from them but they seem well made and my AC guy
agrees.  I had to drill some new holes in the stock Pantera mounting rails
and shroud and trim off a small part of the condenser frame for fitment.   I
don't think that would be the case for the later wider units with the flat
shroud.  I believe the condenser change from the small to large was around
serial 1900.  

So for it works awesome, but I'll know more in a few weeks when we get
warmer weather. 

Mike

From: James coyne [mailto:tecnosound at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:31 PM
To: Mike Dailey; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] FW: A/C test results

Mike, Where did you aquire your high density condenser ?

> From: panteraplace at hotmail.com
> To: tmshinro at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:13:45 -0400
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FW: A/C test results
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the link to the AC performance test process video. It is
> really great to have some benchmark numbers for comparison. I spent some
> time creating a check list from the video and took temp readings today.
> The ambient temp at the time of the test was 83, sunny and humidity of
about
> 42 percent. 
> 
> 
> 
> I first started to do the test in the driveway with the windows down and
on
> a cold startup and warm up like in the video. I was getting a 55 degree
> delta between the condenser air inlet of 87 and the evaporator air outlet
of
> 32, but for some odd reason the temp drop across the condenser was pretty
> low. 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to take the car for a short drive and then came back and parked
in
> the garage out of the sun. At that point I had a 54 degree delta between
> the condenser air inlet of 84 and the evaporator air outlet of 30.
> Recommended: a minimum of 30 but 40 would be great. The windows being
> closed did not make much difference on the evaporator temp. The condenser
> inlet temp was 143 with an exit of 100 for a 43 delta. Recommended: a
> minimum of 20 to max of 50. 
> 
> 
> 
> I was not able to measure the evaporator efficiency because all of the
metal
> parts of my suction line the evaporator are wrapped with the black AC
> insulation tape. But, I could feel that the insulation and rubber hose was
> pretty cold meaning that the system is charged well and the expansion
valve
> is doing its job. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the video they say a 2 degree delta between the condenser to evaporator
> temp compared to the condenser temp drop is good efficacy, but as you can
> see I'm way over that number with 12. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do some more testing later in the summer when it gets hotter, but
from
> their numbers, I've apparently achieved Pantera AC nirvana. After all
these
> years of wrenching on the AC system and the never ending cost, the high
> density condenser seems to be the key to it all. 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you that are thinking about a new condenser I found out that
> even though the parts book shows only one part number there are two
> different sizes. The 71 cars with the large plastic shroud uses smaller
> size than the later cars with the flatter metal shroud. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Mike Dailey 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM
> To: 'Tom Shinrock'; 'detomaso at poca.com'
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> 
> That is a great video. I need to go through it and document the
recommended
> temps and then check them with my IR temp reader. My condenser air inlet
> temp ratio to evaporator air outlet was 55 degrees or better today and in
> the video they are saying 40 is great. My doors and windows were closed
> though. At 82 degrees today I had plenty of cooling that doesn't seem to
> change at highway speed, but I don't have any highways close by where I
can
> drive over 70 for a prolonged time. So far it looks like my new high
> density condenser is removing a lot of heat. The big question will be what
> happens with our Atlanta high humidity 95 degree weather this summer.
> Great info and it is a treasure hunt for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Tom Shinrock 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:52 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Welcome to the A/C treasure hunt. Sounds like we have similar experiences
> in that vent air is not very cold at high way speeds and too cold at low
> speeds. I was googling on ideal A/C temps and found a youtube video that
> explained how various parts of the system can be measured to verify
> operating efficiency ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRbWx23Tgsw ). I
> don't have the fancy measuring equipment but I used my temperature probe
to
> measure the air temp entering the condenser (80 deg) and the air temp
> exiting the vent (36 deg) at idle. The difference of 47 deg exceeds their
> stated minimum of 30 deg, but I still thinking it's too cold at idle
making
> me wonder if I have too much R-12 in the system. I going to talk to some
> A/C shops and see what they have to say.
> 
> Good luck in your quest.
> 
> Tom
> #5186
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Dailey <panteraplace at hotmail.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 3:32 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> Those of you that have been following my A/C blog on Pantera Place
> http://www.panteraplace.com/page123.htm know that I've been working on my
> A/C system for a few years now. It always seems like I'm just another $300
> away from total success and A/C nirvana. This may be the most expensive
> Pantera A/C system in history. 
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year I thought I'd finally found a combination of
stuff
> that really worked. But, I've been hesitant to publish anything on it
until
> I could test it in the Atlanta heat and humidity. The problem I've had
with
> the testing, is the weather has been really mild here so far and when it
has
> been warmer the humidity has been fairly low. 
> 
> 
> 
> Today it was 82 with a low humidity of 37 percent and sunny. I made a test
> run of a combination of stop and go traffic and about five minutes on the
> freeway at 65 to 70 MPH. The evaporator exit air temp stayed pretty much
> the same between the 65 -70 and the traffic, in fact a bit too cold,
between
> 25 and 30 degrees before my deicing switch dropped out the compressor. I'm
> getting some frost on the evaporator coils. The inside of the car was 65
> when I took it out of the garage and even with the high solar heating the
> A/C lowered that temp slightly throughout the drive of 20 min. 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the deicing switch would work a lot better if the temp sensing
probe
> on the Pantera was located further toward the exits in the evaporator box.
> On my 71 it enters the box where the evaporator return line exits the box
> and I think that is too close to the fan inlet/return air. Or I may need
to
> add a new switch to my list of stuff! 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running a new high density condenser with smaller aluminum tubes that
> has 30 percent more of them compared to the original old bass tube unit.
My
> old condenser was original with decades of exhaust fumes corroding it and
> most likely built up cooked A/C oil inside the coils. I'm still using
> Freeze 12 with A/C mineral oil. 
> 
> 
> 
> The new condenser seems to make a huge difference even though it is in the
> stock position with a stock fan. Before I changed the condenser I tried
new
> 1200 - 1450 CFM fan but oddly the stock fan seemed to work better. I
> removed the fan feedback diode to pick up an extra .6 volt of power. This
> is all tentative until we get some hot weather, so don't rush out and buy
a
> new condenser.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why I keep spending money on this dang system other than it
> bugs me when something does not work correctly on my car. 
> 
> 
> 
> More later when we finally get some of our lovely Atlanta heat. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
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