[DeTomaso] FW: A/C test results

James coyne tecnosound at hotmail.com
Thu May 16 19:31:20 EDT 2013


Mike, Where did you aquire your high density condenser ?
 

> From: panteraplace at hotmail.com
> To: tmshinro at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 17:13:45 -0400
> Subject: [DeTomaso] FW: A/C test results
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the link to the AC performance test process video. It is
> really great to have some benchmark numbers for comparison. I spent some
> time creating a check list from the video and took temp readings today.
> The ambient temp at the time of the test was 83, sunny and humidity of about
> 42 percent. 
> 
> 
> 
> I first started to do the test in the driveway with the windows down and on
> a cold startup and warm up like in the video. I was getting a 55 degree
> delta between the condenser air inlet of 87 and the evaporator air outlet of
> 32, but for some odd reason the temp drop across the condenser was pretty
> low. 
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to take the car for a short drive and then came back and parked in
> the garage out of the sun. At that point I had a 54 degree delta between
> the condenser air inlet of 84 and the evaporator air outlet of 30.
> Recommended: a minimum of 30 but 40 would be great. The windows being
> closed did not make much difference on the evaporator temp. The condenser
> inlet temp was 143 with an exit of 100 for a 43 delta. Recommended: a
> minimum of 20 to max of 50. 
> 
> 
> 
> I was not able to measure the evaporator efficiency because all of the metal
> parts of my suction line the evaporator are wrapped with the black AC
> insulation tape. But, I could feel that the insulation and rubber hose was
> pretty cold meaning that the system is charged well and the expansion valve
> is doing its job. 
> 
> 
> 
> In the video they say a 2 degree delta between the condenser to evaporator
> temp compared to the condenser temp drop is good efficacy, but as you can
> see I'm way over that number with 12. 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do some more testing later in the summer when it gets hotter, but from
> their numbers, I've apparently achieved Pantera AC nirvana. After all these
> years of wrenching on the AC system and the never ending cost, the high
> density condenser seems to be the key to it all. 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you that are thinking about a new condenser I found out that
> even though the parts book shows only one part number there are two
> different sizes. The 71 cars with the large plastic shroud uses smaller
> size than the later cars with the flatter metal shroud. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Mike Dailey 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:39 PM
> To: 'Tom Shinrock'; 'detomaso at poca.com'
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> 
> That is a great video. I need to go through it and document the recommended
> temps and then check them with my IR temp reader. My condenser air inlet
> temp ratio to evaporator air outlet was 55 degrees or better today and in
> the video they are saying 40 is great. My doors and windows were closed
> though. At 82 degrees today I had plenty of cooling that doesn't seem to
> change at highway speed, but I don't have any highways close by where I can
> drive over 70 for a prolonged time. So far it looks like my new high
> density condenser is removing a lot of heat. The big question will be what
> happens with our Atlanta high humidity 95 degree weather this summer.
> Great info and it is a treasure hunt for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Tom Shinrock 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:52 PM
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> Welcome to the A/C treasure hunt. Sounds like we have similar experiences
> in that vent air is not very cold at high way speeds and too cold at low
> speeds. I was googling on ideal A/C temps and found a youtube video that
> explained how various parts of the system can be measured to verify
> operating efficiency ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRbWx23Tgsw ). I
> don't have the fancy measuring equipment but I used my temperature probe to
> measure the air temp entering the condenser (80 deg) and the air temp
> exiting the vent (36 deg) at idle. The difference of 47 deg exceeds their
> stated minimum of 30 deg, but I still thinking it's too cold at idle making
> me wonder if I have too much R-12 in the system. I going to talk to some
> A/C shops and see what they have to say.
> 
> Good luck in your quest.
> 
> Tom
> #5186
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Dailey <panteraplace at hotmail.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 3:32 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C test results
> 
> Those of you that have been following my A/C blog on Pantera Place
> http://www.panteraplace.com/page123.htm know that I've been working on my
> A/C system for a few years now. It always seems like I'm just another $300
> away from total success and A/C nirvana. This may be the most expensive
> Pantera A/C system in history. 
> 
> 
> 
> In November of last year I thought I'd finally found a combination of stuff
> that really worked. But, I've been hesitant to publish anything on it until
> I could test it in the Atlanta heat and humidity. The problem I've had with
> the testing, is the weather has been really mild here so far and when it has
> been warmer the humidity has been fairly low. 
> 
> 
> 
> Today it was 82 with a low humidity of 37 percent and sunny. I made a test
> run of a combination of stop and go traffic and about five minutes on the
> freeway at 65 to 70 MPH. The evaporator exit air temp stayed pretty much
> the same between the 65 -70 and the traffic, in fact a bit too cold, between
> 25 and 30 degrees before my deicing switch dropped out the compressor. I'm
> getting some frost on the evaporator coils. The inside of the car was 65
> when I took it out of the garage and even with the high solar heating the
> A/C lowered that temp slightly throughout the drive of 20 min. 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the deicing switch would work a lot better if the temp sensing probe
> on the Pantera was located further toward the exits in the evaporator box.
> On my 71 it enters the box where the evaporator return line exits the box
> and I think that is too close to the fan inlet/return air. Or I may need to
> add a new switch to my list of stuff! 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm running a new high density condenser with smaller aluminum tubes that
> has 30 percent more of them compared to the original old bass tube unit. My
> old condenser was original with decades of exhaust fumes corroding it and
> most likely built up cooked A/C oil inside the coils. I'm still using
> Freeze 12 with A/C mineral oil. 
> 
> 
> 
> The new condenser seems to make a huge difference even though it is in the
> stock position with a stock fan. Before I changed the condenser I tried new
> 1200 - 1450 CFM fan but oddly the stock fan seemed to work better. I
> removed the fan feedback diode to pick up an extra .6 volt of power. This
> is all tentative until we get some hot weather, so don't rush out and buy a
> new condenser.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure why I keep spending money on this dang system other than it
> bugs me when something does not work correctly on my car. 
> 
> 
> 
> More later when we finally get some of our lovely Atlanta heat. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
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