[DeTomaso] Subject: A/C condensor fan test results

paulrob77 at cox.net paulrob77 at cox.net
Mon May 6 11:20:55 EDT 2013


> Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 10:01:04 -0500
> From:  <paulrob77 at cox.net>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 107, Issue 5  Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C
 condensor fan test results
> Cc: detomaso-request at poca.com
> 
> I have not seen any remarks about the heater valve open some for whatever the reason.
> 
> Maybe air control with in the cabin and outside air might be a problem, however,  Not this problem, but too much outside airflow through cabin due to bad weather stripping and so on. This can all about too much heat in the cabin.  
> 
> On My 74, purchased new, the cooling was bad.  Short story , too much oil in the system.  My quick test:  observe the sight glass on AC turn on.  If you see clear bubbles on the way to no bubbles, all is good. BUT if you see a brown bubbles, you have too much oil in the system. I just drained out one ounce at a time, slowly from lowest connection and recharged till I got it right.  Still have the original compressor system and freezes me out.  To get rid of vibration, I swapped to a cast iron compressor and put the heavy flywheel type of clutch on.  this is OK, as I do not race.
> 
> This excessive oil floods the evap and moves the max heat absorption too high and  a lot of the cooling is in return hose to the compressor.  AC guys like to add a couple of ounces of oil every time they work on a system and that causes the problem.  
> 
> THE evap should have about 25% liquid in bottom of evap.  When this boils the heat transfer is in the upper 75% with most being in the center 50%.   The oil will pool where it is cold.  I also own a R134 system that has too much oil in it. 
> 
> Get your IR heat gun out and see what temps are all up and down the evap, Condenser and /out of the compressor. Get some performance charts out and see what is going on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---- detomaso-request at poca.com wrote: 
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> > 
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> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of DeTomaso digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Daily Detomaso List Digest
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. A/C condensor fan test results (Tom Shinrock)
> >    2. Re: A/C condensor fan test results (Scott Bell)
> >    3. Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally (David in Durango)
> >    4. Re: Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally (Christopher Kimball)
> >    5. Another Query for the Forum- Subpanel Instrument	Replacements
> >       (Chris Difani)
> >    6. Re: A/C condensor fan test results (Tom Shinrock)
> >    7. New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (Vinh Ly)
> >    8. Re: New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (michael at michaelshortt.com)
> >    9. Re: Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally (David in Durango)
> >   10. Re: New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (JPEP33 at aol.com)
> >   11. Re: A/C condensor fan test results (Jeff Detrich)
> >   12. Re: New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (Christopher Kimball)
> >   13. Pantera at Auto Italia at Brooklands (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> >   14. Re: New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> >   15. Re: A/C condensor fan test results (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> >   16. Re: Pantera at Auto Italia at Brooklands (Pantdino)
> >   17. Re: A/C condensor fan test results (Tomas Gunnarsson)
> >   18. LED question (Christopher Kimball)
> >   19. Re: LED question (bill gaino)
> >   20. Re: LED question ( Charles Engles)
> >   21. Re: New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 (shawkins777 at comcast.net)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:37:41 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <8D01750A63DA059-2250-3C3F at Webmail-m107.sysops.aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > Those I met at the fun rally probably got bored/annoyed with my stories of my air conditioner not being effective on my drive from Iowa to Phoenix (believe me....I heard about it from Dena on the drive back).  I had the system filled will R-12 before I left Iowa.  I put in a new rotary compressor and drier last summer along with a high temp cut off switch. Before that I never tried to get my A/C working.  I was pleased to find a number of people that claimed to have effective A/C with rear mounted condensers so I have hope that I can get mine to work.
> > 
> > 
> > Gil Mares and Les Gray went out of their way to look at my system and put me in touch with some A/C experts in Phoenix.  To shorten a long story, when Les looked at the system we found that the A/C worked in the parking lot blowing 60 degree air with ambient temps around 100 in the car.   He didn't see any bubbles in the drier site glass.  He also noted that I had original hoses.  I called the experts that Gil had referred me to and gave them the results of the parking lot test.  Their opinion was that no bubbles indicated that the system was fully charged and the fact that  the A/C worked in the parking lot but not on the highway suggested that the condenser was not being taking enough heat out of the system which was probably due to a underpowered fan and/or an ineffective condenser.
> > 
> > 
> > On the way home I would periodically turn on the air and find that it would blow cool air for a very short time and then stop working.  On my last day of driving I ran the A/C in the late morning before it got crazy hot and found that the air actually worked for about an hour and a half before it quit working.  During that stretch I heard a sound I've rarely heard; the A/C relay clicking on and off.  This experience pushed me further to the conclusion that my condenser wasn't pulling enough heat out of the system and when it got hot enough my cut off switch was shutting down the compressor.
> > 
> > 
> > I replaced my stock condenser fan with a new fangled one last summer thinking it would be better.  Since then I've read many opinions that the stock fan moved more air.  John Buckman described to me how he tested various aftermarket fans using increasing amounts of cardboard at the condenser grill to determine which fan provided the most suction to hold the cardboard in place.  He said he did not conduct that test for the stock fan however.
> > 
> > 
> > Feeling that my A/C would be more effective if I could move more air through the condenser, I decided to perform the cardboard test to see how my aftermarket fan compared to the stock fan.  Here's what I found:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With my aftermarket fan installed I cut a piece of cardboard the size of the grill opening and turned the fan on via a battery charger and saw that the fan sucked the cardboard and held it to the grill.   I then taped more and more cardboard to this first piece of cardboard until the fan could no longer provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard against the grill.
> > 
> > 
> > I then removed the aftermarket fan and re-installed my stock fan (by the way both fans had dense foam stuffed into the sides of the fan shroud to seal the gap between the shroud and car body to prevent the fan from sucking any air from inside the engine compartment).  I found the stock fan could easily hold the mass of cardboard I ended up with when testing the aftermarket fan.  I then proceeded to add more and more cardboard until the stock fan could not provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard to the grill.  Both tests were performed with the tub out.
> > 
> > 
> > I don't have a scale small enough to weigh the different amounts of cardboard to quantify the difference in weight but I did calculate the equivalent area of card board that each fan could hold.  The aftermarket fan held 677 square inches of cardboard and the stock fan held 782 square inches (15.5% more).  So obviously I was not getting as much condenser cooling with the aftermarket fan.
> > 
> > 
> > I then proceeded to test the A/C with the tub in.  I put a temperature probe in the dash vent which indicated 70 degrees ambient.  I turned the A/C on saw that the vent air temperature was an indicated 25 degrees.  I won't really know how good it performs until we get some hot weather around here.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I heard a lot of people talk about parallel flow condensers.  I know I don't have a stock condenser but I don't really know what kind came with the car.   When I was switching condenser fans, I took a closer look at it and I'm wondering if it is a parallel flow design.   I took some pictures of it to see if someone can tell me what I have. http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=40199
> > 
> > 
> > Any and all comments are welcome.
> > 
> > 
> > Tom
> > #5186
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 20:02:00 -0700
> > From: "Scott Bell" <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: "'Tom Shinrock'" <tmshinro at aol.com>,	<detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <002001ce493c$e9e334d0$bda99e70$@saccrestorations.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Something else to consider... If the AC works for some period of time and then stops working, the problem could be the evaporator
> > icing over. This is VERY common. To test, next time the AC stops working while driving, turn the AC compressor off with the
> > thermostat knob. Leave if off for 5 minutes or so. During this time the blower should still be running. Then turn the AC compressor
> > back on and see if the AC is again blowing cold. Also, when the evaporator is icing over, it is common to have a reduction in blower
> > pressure. As the evaporator defrosts, the blower air pressure will increase.
> > 
> > Also, the switch you added cuts the compressor off when the pressure gets too high or too low, as opposed to, too hot as you stated.
> > If the compressor is turning off do to this switch, something is indeed not right. As you guessed, not enough air flow through the
> > condenser on a hot day will cause the pressure to go to high and shutoff the compressor. This condition causes hoses to blow off on
> > systems without a pressure switch.  
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Tom Shinrock
> > Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 7:38 PM
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > 
> > Those I met at the fun rally probably got bored/annoyed with my stories of my air conditioner not being effective on my drive from
> > Iowa to Phoenix (believe me....I heard about it from Dena on the drive back).  I had the system filled will R-12 before I left Iowa.
> > I put in a new rotary compressor and drier last summer along with a high temp cut off switch. Before that I never tried to get my
> > A/C working.  I was pleased to find a number of people that claimed to have effective A/C with rear mounted condensers so I have
> > hope that I can get mine to work.
> > 
> > 
> > Gil Mares and Les Gray went out of their way to look at my system and put me in touch with some A/C experts in Phoenix.  To shorten
> > a long story, when Les looked at the system we found that the A/C worked in the parking lot blowing 60 degree air with ambient temps
> > around 100 in the car.   He didn't see any bubbles in the drier site glass.  He also noted that I had original hoses.  I called the
> > experts that Gil had referred me to and gave them the results of the parking lot test.  Their opinion was that no bubbles indicated
> > that the system was fully charged and the fact that  the A/C worked in the parking lot but not on the highway suggested that the
> > condenser was not being taking enough heat out of the system which was probably due to a underpowered fan and/or an ineffective
> > condenser.
> > 
> > 
> > On the way home I would periodically turn on the air and find that it would blow cool air for a very short time and then stop
> > working.  On my last day of driving I ran the A/C in the late morning before it got crazy hot and found that the air actually worked
> > for about an hour and a half before it quit working.  During that stretch I heard a sound I've rarely heard; the A/C relay clicking
> > on and off.  This experience pushed me further to the conclusion that my condenser wasn't pulling enough heat out of the system and
> > when it got hot enough my cut off switch was shutting down the compressor.
> > 
> > 
> > I replaced my stock condenser fan with a new fangled one last summer thinking it would be better.  Since then I've read many
> > opinions that the stock fan moved more air.  John Buckman described to me how he tested various aftermarket fans using increasing
> > amounts of cardboard at the condenser grill to determine which fan provided the most suction to hold the cardboard in place.  He
> > said he did not conduct that test for the stock fan however.
> > 
> > 
> > Feeling that my A/C would be more effective if I could move more air through the condenser, I decided to perform the cardboard test
> > to see how my aftermarket fan compared to the stock fan.  Here's what I found:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With my aftermarket fan installed I cut a piece of cardboard the size of the grill opening and turned the fan on via a battery
> > charger and saw that the fan sucked the cardboard and held it to the grill.   I then taped more and more cardboard to this first
> > piece of cardboard until the fan could no longer provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard against the grill.
> > 
> > 
> > I then removed the aftermarket fan and re-installed my stock fan (by the way both fans had dense foam stuffed into the sides of the
> > fan shroud to seal the gap between the shroud and car body to prevent the fan from sucking any air from inside the engine
> > compartment).  I found the stock fan could easily hold the mass of cardboard I ended up with when testing the aftermarket fan.  I
> > then proceeded to add more and more cardboard until the stock fan could not provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard to
> > the grill.  Both tests were performed with the tub out.
> > 
> > 
> > I don't have a scale small enough to weigh the different amounts of cardboard to quantify the difference in weight but I did
> > calculate the equivalent area of card board that each fan could hold.  The aftermarket fan held 677 square inches of cardboard and
> > the stock fan held 782 square inches (15.5% more).  So obviously I was not getting as much condenser cooling with the aftermarket
> > fan.
> > 
> > 
> > I then proceeded to test the A/C with the tub in.  I put a temperature probe in the dash vent which indicated 70 degrees ambient.  I
> > turned the A/C on saw that the vent air temperature was an indicated 25 degrees.  I won't really know how good it performs until we
> > get some hot weather around here.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I heard a lot of people talk about parallel flow condensers.  I know I don't have a stock condenser but I don't really know what
> > kind came with the car.   When I was switching condenser fans, I took a closer look at it and I'm wondering if it is a parallel flow
> > design.   I took some pictures of it to see if someone can tell me what I have. http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=40199
> > 
> > 
> > Any and all comments are welcome.
> > 
> > 
> > Tom
> > #5186
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:20:24 -0600
> > From: "David in Durango" <adin at frontier.net>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> > To: "Panteras" <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <6B51CC826CA147AAB1E7291C01994583 at ZTxp>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Wrap up
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I had two tanks with over 22mpg, but the overall average was somewhat less . . . WUFFwhineBRAAAAAH  or WUFFwhineBRAAAAAHwhineeeeeeWUFFBRAAAAAh  braAAAAAAHHH . . .   That, and four track sessions will ruin the overall mgp.  Didn't hurt the fun factor, though!
> > 
> > Renewed some friendships from years gone by, as well as meeting some folks I only know by name, typical for a Fun Rally?
> > 
> > Kirby, Gray and David talking in the pits
> > 
> > http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photos/4/43175/1969865/funrally20137-vi.jpg 
> > 
> > Wish I could do this more than once a year!
> > 
> > Friday I made a quick stop by the parking lot of the Wild Horse to finish a transaction and a quick look at some of the cars there.  Doesn't look like many folks ever drive those cars!
> > 
> > http://images55.fotki.com/v605/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon051-vi.jpg 
> > 
> > Thanks to all - I had a great time visiting with everyone!
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Below: Stella (a street car named Desire) strikes a pose at the open pit mine.
> > 
> > http://images14.fotki.com/v384/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon044-vi.jpg 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Where will we be next year?
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:17:26 -0700
> > From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> > To: David in Durango <adin at frontier.net>, Pantera list serve
> > 	<detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <SNT139-W50250A31601770EFE9897FBCB80 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Nice pics--thanks!
> > Chris
> > 
> > > From: adin at frontier.net
> > > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:20:24 -0600
> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> > > 
> > > Wrap up
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > I had two tanks with over 22mpg, but the overall average was somewhat less . . . WUFFwhineBRAAAAAH  or WUFFwhineBRAAAAAHwhineeeeeeWUFFBRAAAAAh  braAAAAAAHHH . . .   That, and four track sessions will ruin the overall mgp.  Didn't hurt the fun factor, though!
> > > 
> > > Renewed some friendships from years gone by, as well as meeting some folks I only know by name, typical for a Fun Rally?
> > > 
> > > Kirby, Gray and David talking in the pits
> > > 
> > > http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photos/4/43175/1969865/funrally20137-vi.jpg 
> > > 
> > > Wish I could do this more than once a year!
> > > 
> > > Friday I made a quick stop by the parking lot of the Wild Horse to finish a transaction and a quick look at some of the cars there.  Doesn't look like many folks ever drive those cars!
> > > 
> > > http://images55.fotki.com/v605/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon051-vi.jpg 
> > > 
> > > Thanks to all - I had a great time visiting with everyone!
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Below: Stella (a street car named Desire) strikes a pose at the open pit mine.
> > > 
> > > http://images14.fotki.com/v384/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon044-vi.jpg 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Where will we be next year?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > 
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >  		 	   		  
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:49:06 -0700
> > From: Chris Difani <csdifani at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Another Query for the Forum- Subpanel Instrument
> > 	Replacements
> > To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>, Chris Difani
> > 	<csdifani at gmail.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<CAFa9Nq6Q4x0zXa2UixaSM=cccE9oT5rs7xAL+o4BUr=6kwRD7g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > 
> > Guys:
> > 
> > I'm investigating changing out my four 52MM Veglia gauges for four "dual
> > display" digital gauges.  I want to monitor boost, air-fuel ratio, oil
> > temp, as well as the usual's (oil pressure, engine coolant, fuel level,
> > etc.).
> > 
> > My question for this quiet evening is has anyone replaced their four
> > subpanel gauges, and if so, what did you monitor?  And furthermore, has
> > anyone used the dual display style of gauges?  And if so, what brand, your
> > experiences, and so forth.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > Chris Difani
> > '73 L #5829 "LITNNG"
> > Sacramento, CA
> > Email: csdifani at gmail.com
> > ____________________________
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:01:17 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <8D017A7C3C58D57-1DAC-5657 at webmail-m249.sysops.aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > 
> >  Scott,
> > 
> > Thanks for your comments.   I don't think my evaporator is icing up because I never saw a reduction in air flow from the fan (which is what I assume you are referring to when you say "blower").  I find it hard to believe that the evaporator could ice up in the near 100 degree heat and ultra low humidity conditions in Phoenix.  I could only wish my system got that cold.  I will, however, do as you suggested the next time it stops working to see happens.  Just curious what is the solution to the evaporator icing up...dial in some heat from the heater?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Tom
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
> > To: 'Tom Shinrock' <tmshinro at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Sent: Sat, May 4, 2013 10:02 pm
> > Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > 
> > 
> > Tom,
> > 
> > Something else to consider... If the AC works for some period of time and then 
> > stops working, the problem could be the evaporator
> > icing over. This is VERY common. To test, next time the AC stops working while 
> > driving, turn the AC compressor off with the
> > thermostat knob. Leave if off for 5 minutes or so. During this time the blower 
> > should still be running. Then turn the AC compressor
> > back on and see if the AC is again blowing cold. Also, when the evaporator is 
> > icing over, it is common to have a reduction in blower
> > pressure. As the evaporator defrosts, the blower air pressure will increase.
> > 
> > Also, the switch you added cuts the compressor off when the pressure gets too 
> > high or too low, as opposed to, too hot as you stated.
> > If the compressor is turning off do to this switch, something is indeed not 
> > right. As you guessed, not enough air flow through the
> > condenser on a hot day will cause the pressure to go to high and shutoff the 
> > compressor. This condition causes hoses to blow off on
> > systems without a pressure switch.  
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of 
> > Tom Shinrock
> > Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 7:38 PM
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > 
> > Those I met at the fun rally probably got bored/annoyed with my stories of my 
> > air conditioner not being effective on my drive from
> > Iowa to Phoenix (believe me....I heard about it from Dena on the drive back).  I 
> > had the system filled will R-12 before I left Iowa.
> > I put in a new rotary compressor and drier last summer along with a high temp 
> > cut off switch. Before that I never tried to get my
> > A/C working.  I was pleased to find a number of people that claimed to have 
> > effective A/C with rear mounted condensers so I have
> > hope that I can get mine to work.
> > 
> > 
> > Gil Mares and Les Gray went out of their way to look at my system and put me in 
> > touch with some A/C experts in Phoenix.  To shorten
> > a long story, when Les looked at the system we found that the A/C worked in the 
> > parking lot blowing 60 degree air with ambient temps
> > around 100 in the car.   He didn't see any bubbles in the drier site glass.  He 
> > also noted that I had original hoses.  I called the
> > experts that Gil had referred me to and gave them the results of the parking lot 
> > test.  Their opinion was that no bubbles indicated
> > that the system was fully charged and the fact that  the A/C worked in the 
> > parking lot but not on the highway suggested that the
> > condenser was not being taking enough heat out of the system which was probably 
> > due to a underpowered fan and/or an ineffective
> > condenser.
> > 
> > 
> > On the way home I would periodically turn on the air and find that it would blow 
> > cool air for a very short time and then stop
> > working.  On my last day of driving I ran the A/C in the late morning before it 
> > got crazy hot and found that the air actually worked
> > for about an hour and a half before it quit working.  During that stretch I 
> > heard a sound I've rarely heard; the A/C relay clicking
> > on and off.  This experience pushed me further to the conclusion that my 
> > condenser wasn't pulling enough heat out of the system and
> > when it got hot enough my cut off switch was shutting down the compressor.
> > 
> > 
> > I replaced my stock condenser fan with a new fangled one last summer thinking it 
> > would be better.  Since then I've read many
> > opinions that the stock fan moved more air.  John Buckman described to me how he 
> > tested various aftermarket fans using increasing
> > amounts of cardboard at the condenser grill to determine which fan provided the 
> > most suction to hold the cardboard in place.  He
> > said he did not conduct that test for the stock fan however.
> > 
> > 
> > Feeling that my A/C would be more effective if I could move more air through the 
> > condenser, I decided to perform the cardboard test
> > to see how my aftermarket fan compared to the stock fan.  Here's what I found:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > With my aftermarket fan installed I cut a piece of cardboard the size of the 
> > grill opening and turned the fan on via a battery
> > charger and saw that the fan sucked the cardboard and held it to the grill.   I 
> > then taped more and more cardboard to this first
> > piece of cardboard until the fan could no longer provide enough suction to hold 
> > the mass of cardboard against the grill.
> > 
> > 
> > I then removed the aftermarket fan and re-installed my stock fan (by the way 
> > both fans had dense foam stuffed into the sides of the
> > fan shroud to seal the gap between the shroud and car body to prevent the fan 
> > from sucking any air from inside the engine
> > compartment).  I found the stock fan could easily hold the mass of cardboard I 
> > ended up with when testing the aftermarket fan.  I
> > then proceeded to add more and more cardboard until the stock fan could not 
> > provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard to
> > the grill.  Both tests were performed with the tub out.
> > 
> > 
> > I don't have a scale small enough to weigh the different amounts of cardboard to 
> > quantify the difference in weight but I did
> > calculate the equivalent area of card board that each fan could hold.  The 
> > aftermarket fan held 677 square inches of cardboard and
> > the stock fan held 782 square inches (15.5% more).  So obviously I was not 
> > getting as much condenser cooling with the aftermarket
> > fan.
> > 
> > 
> > I then proceeded to test the A/C with the tub in.  I put a temperature probe in 
> > the dash vent which indicated 70 degrees ambient.  I
> > turned the A/C on saw that the vent air temperature was an indicated 25 degrees.  
> > I won't really know how good it performs until we
> > get some hot weather around here.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I heard a lot of people talk about parallel flow condensers.  I know I don't 
> > have a stock condenser but I don't really know what
> > kind came with the car.   When I was switching condenser fans, I took a closer 
> > look at it and I'm wondering if it is a parallel flow
> > design.   I took some pictures of it to see if someone can tell me what I have. 
> > http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=40199
> > 
> > 
> > Any and all comments are welcome.
> > 
> > 
> > Tom
> > #5186
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:09:20 -0400
> > From: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<CAGJh1TYATFB+vLEC9cc6ntzEaQ45=KwhdkQ7gdG9N-8Fp7=3cg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> > 
> > Hello Everyone,
> > 
> > 
> > I am pleased to announce that I am the proud new owner of 1975 Euro GTS
> > #7445.  I picked it up from the Cape in Massachusetts yesterday from the
> > previous owner who had enjoyed it since 1989.  I had a 2 hour drive to get
> > acquainted with the car while driving it to New Hampshire.  It drove and
> > handled like a dream.  I could not ask for a better day to listen to the
> > Cleveland Orchestra.
> > 
> > 
> > Along with the car came a thick file folder of documentation and receipts.  I
> > have been able to trace some of the history of #7445.  It was shipped from
> > West Germany to the US in 1983.  The owner at that time registered the car
> > in California.   It would stay there until 1989 when it was sold and moved
> > to New England.
> > 
> > 
> > #7445 has a light restoration, it has a two tone silver paint job.  Stopping
> > power is provided by ?85 vette brakes.  The windows have the Vader  window
> > lifts which other owners say are premium.  The heads were rebuilt with
> > stainless steel valves and three angle cut.  The steering rack was also
> > rebuilt.
> > 
> > 
> > I have to thank Larry W. who I met at a Merrimack, NH car show a couple
> > years back where I first saw his ?74 and which rekindled my interest.  He
> > also let me ride along with him to the 2012 Tutto Italiano Car Show in
> > Brookline, MA which increased my determination in locating one.
> > 
> > 
> > Here is a link to pictures of #7445.
> > 
> > 
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > 
> > 
> > <https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw>
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Vinh
> > 
> > #7445
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:40:14 -0400
> > From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<CAEWtxWqwPWWk=1tdh6MoHR1ZvyuovG-0ONiACzL6saoOyRtP6w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> > 
> > Welcome to thr brotherhood!
> > 
> > Lots of information and help available here and the greatest gearheads on
> > earth.
> > 
> > Ask us anything and you're sure to get a variety of solutions based on the
> > official way, the clever way, the "right way", the in detail engineer's
> > way, and a few shade tree fixes that work equally well.
> > 
> > Michael Shortt
> > 71 Pantera #1660
> > Savannah, GA.
> > www.michaelspantera.com
> >  On May 5, 2013 9:09 AM, "Vinh Ly" <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > >
> > >
> > > I am pleased to announce that I am the proud new owner of 1975 Euro GTS
> > > #7445.  I picked it up from the Cape in Massachusetts yesterday from the
> > > previous owner who had enjoyed it since 1989.  I had a 2 hour drive to get
> > > acquainted with the car while driving it to New Hampshire.  It drove and
> > > handled like a dream.  I could not ask for a better day to listen to the
> > > Cleveland Orchestra.
> > >
> > >
> > > Along with the car came a thick file folder of documentation and receipts.
> > >  I
> > > have been able to trace some of the history of #7445.  It was shipped from
> > > West Germany to the US in 1983.  The owner at that time registered the car
> > > in California.   It would stay there until 1989 when it was sold and moved
> > > to New England.
> > >
> > >
> > > #7445 has a light restoration, it has a two tone silver paint job.
> > >  Stopping
> > > power is provided by ?85 vette brakes.  The windows have the Vader  window
> > > lifts which other owners say are premium.  The heads were rebuilt with
> > > stainless steel valves and three angle cut.  The steering rack was also
> > > rebuilt.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to thank Larry W. who I met at a Merrimack, NH car show a couple
> > > years back where I first saw his ?74 and which rekindled my interest.  He
> > > also let me ride along with him to the 2012 Tutto Italiano Car Show in
> > > Brookline, MA which increased my determination in locating one.
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a link to pictures of #7445.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > >
> > >
> > > <
> > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Vinh
> > >
> > > #7445
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 07:47:44 -0600
> > From: "David in Durango" <adin at frontier.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> > To: "Christopher Kimball" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>,	"Pantera list
> > 	serve" <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <C3706C750C7940A2ABB1340EF1639708 at ZTxp>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > You are welcome - Milkshakes Forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Christopher Kimball 
> >   To: David in Durango ; Pantera list serve 
> >   Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 11:17 PM
> >   Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> > 
> > 
> >   Nice pics--thanks!
> > 
> > 
> >   Chris
> > 
> > 
> >   > From: adin at frontier.net
> >   > To: detomaso at poca.com
> >   > Date: Sat, 4 May 2013 22:20:24 -0600
> >   > Subject: [DeTomaso] Wrap up - my 2013 Fun Rally
> >   > 
> >   > Wrap up
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > I had two tanks with over 22mpg, but the overall average was somewhat less . . . WUFFwhineBRAAAAAH or WUFFwhineBRAAAAAHwhineeeeeeWUFFBRAAAAAh braAAAAAAHHH . . . That, and four track sessions will ruin the overall mgp. Didn't hurt the fun factor, though!
> >   > 
> >   > Renewed some friendships from years gone by, as well as meeting some folks I only know by name, typical for a Fun Rally?
> >   > 
> >   > Kirby, Gray and David talking in the pits
> >   > 
> >   > http://images60.fotki.com/v370/photos/4/43175/1969865/funrally20137-vi.jpg 
> >   > 
> >   > Wish I could do this more than once a year!
> >   > 
> >   > Friday I made a quick stop by the parking lot of the Wild Horse to finish a transaction and a quick look at some of the cars there. Doesn't look like many folks ever drive those cars!
> >   > 
> >   > http://images55.fotki.com/v605/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon051-vi.jpg 
> >   > 
> >   > Thanks to all - I had a great time visiting with everyone!
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > Below: Stella (a street car named Desire) strikes a pose at the open pit mine.
> >   > 
> >   > http://images14.fotki.com/v384/photos/5/43175/11968482/nikon044-vi.jpg 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > Where will we be next year?
> >   > _______________________________________________
> >   > 
> >   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >   > 
> >   > DeTomaso mailing list
> >   > DeTomaso at poca.com
> >   > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8296 (20130504) __________
> > 
> >   The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> > 
> >   http://www.eset.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8297 (20130505) __________
> > 
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> > 
> > http://www.eset.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:49:39 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: JPEP33 at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > To: michael at michaelshortt.com, vinh.d.ly at gmail.com
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <1085b4.a5bf50e.3eb7bd73 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > 
> > Welcome to the show.....you are in for a great ride! Congratulations.
> >  
> > JP-Texas
> >  
> >  
> > In a message dated 5/5/2013 8:40:31 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> > michaelsavga at gmail.com writes:
> > 
> > Welcome  to thr brotherhood!
> > 
> > Lots of information and help available here and the  greatest gearheads on
> > earth.
> > 
> > Ask us anything and you're sure to get  a variety of solutions based on the
> > official way, the clever way, the  "right way", the in detail engineer's
> > way, and a few shade tree fixes that  work equally well.
> > 
> > Michael Shortt
> > 71 Pantera #1660
> > Savannah,  GA.
> > www.michaelspantera.com
> > On May 5, 2013 9:09 AM, "Vinh Ly"  <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello  Everyone,
> > >
> > >
> > > I am pleased to announce that I am the proud  new owner of 1975 Euro GTS
> > > #7445.  I picked it up from the Cape  in Massachusetts yesterday from the
> > > previous owner who had enjoyed it  since 1989.  I had a 2 hour drive to 
> > get
> > > acquainted with the car  while driving it to New Hampshire.  It drove and
> > > handled like a  dream.  I could not ask for a better day to listen to the
> > >  Cleveland Orchestra.
> > >
> > >
> > > Along with the car came a thick  file folder of documentation and 
> > receipts.
> > >  I
> > > have been  able to trace some of the history of #7445.  It was shipped 
> > from
> > >  West Germany to the US in 1983.  The owner at that time registered the  
> > car
> > > in California.   It would stay there until 1989 when it  was sold and 
> > moved
> > > to New England.
> > >
> > >
> > > #7445 has a  light restoration, it has a two tone silver paint job.
> > >   Stopping
> > > power is provided by ?85 vette brakes.  The windows have  the Vader  
> > window
> > > lifts which other owners say are premium.   The heads were rebuilt with
> > > stainless steel valves and three angle  cut.  The steering rack was also
> > > rebuilt.
> > >
> > >
> > >  I have to thank Larry W. who I met at a Merrimack, NH car show a  couple
> > > years back where I first saw his ?74 and which rekindled my  interest.  He
> > > also let me ride along with him to the 2012 Tutto  Italiano Car Show in
> > > Brookline, MA which increased my determination in  locating one.
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a link to pictures of  #7445.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > >
> > >
> > >  <
> > >  
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > >  >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Vinh
> > >
> > >  #7445
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >  Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > >  DeTomaso at poca.com
> > >  http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso  Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing  list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 10:15:40 -0500
> > From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<CANX29aWxE2yULo+XyGr3Czs30Ds6FDA9zMbDV-y0NM=k_y8-fw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> > 
> > AC works best with the tub in according to conventional wisdom. And the fan
> > should be blowing air into the engine compartment.
> > 
> > A parallel flow condenser has tubes that run down the side of the condenser
> > and the cooling tubes run off that from one side to another; an old style
> > condenser has one continuous cooling tube that runs from the top to the
> > bottom by doing u-turns at the end of each row. Your pictures do not show
> > the ends of the cooling tubes in enough detail to tell but the
> > discolorization of the plates on both side of the condenser seem to show
> > the u-turns which would indicate a serpentine flow condenser.
> > 
> > http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hrdp_0706_air_conditioning/viewall.html
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 6559
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Those I met at the fun rally probably got bored/annoyed with my stories of
> > > my air conditioner not being effective on my drive from Iowa to Phoenix
> > > (believe me....I heard about it from Dena on the drive back).  I had the
> > > system filled will R-12 before I left Iowa.  I put in a new rotary
> > > compressor and drier last summer along with a high temp cut off switch.
> > > Before that I never tried to get my A/C working.  I was pleased to find a
> > > number of people that claimed to have effective A/C with rear mounted
> > > condensers so I have hope that I can get mine to work.
> > >
> > >
> > > Gil Mares and Les Gray went out of their way to look at my system and put
> > > me in touch with some A/C experts in Phoenix.  To shorten a long story,
> > > when Les looked at the system we found that the A/C worked in the parking
> > > lot blowing 60 degree air with ambient temps around 100 in the car.   He
> > > didn't see any bubbles in the drier site glass.  He also noted that I had
> > > original hoses.  I called the experts that Gil had referred me to and gave
> > > them the results of the parking lot test.  Their opinion was that no
> > > bubbles indicated that the system was fully charged and the fact that  the
> > > A/C worked in the parking lot but not on the highway suggested that the
> > > condenser was not being taking enough heat out of the system which was
> > > probably due to a underpowered fan and/or an ineffective condenser.
> > >
> > >
> > > On the way home I would periodically turn on the air and find that it
> > > would blow cool air for a very short time and then stop working.  On my
> > > last day of driving I ran the A/C in the late morning before it got crazy
> > > hot and found that the air actually worked for about an hour and a half
> > > before it quit working.  During that stretch I heard a sound I've rarely
> > > heard; the A/C relay clicking on and off.  This experience pushed me
> > > further to the conclusion that my condenser wasn't pulling enough heat out
> > > of the system and when it got hot enough my cut off switch was shutting
> > > down the compressor.
> > >
> > >
> > > I replaced my stock condenser fan with a new fangled one last summer
> > > thinking it would be better.  Since then I've read many opinions that the
> > > stock fan moved more air.  John Buckman described to me how he tested
> > > various aftermarket fans using increasing amounts of cardboard at the
> > > condenser grill to determine which fan provided the most suction to hold
> > > the cardboard in place.  He said he did not conduct that test for the stock
> > > fan however.
> > >
> > >
> > > Feeling that my A/C would be more effective if I could move more air
> > > through the condenser, I decided to perform the cardboard test to see how
> > > my aftermarket fan compared to the stock fan.  Here's what I found:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With my aftermarket fan installed I cut a piece of cardboard the size of
> > > the grill opening and turned the fan on via a battery charger and saw that
> > > the fan sucked the cardboard and held it to the grill.   I then taped more
> > > and more cardboard to this first piece of cardboard until the fan could no
> > > longer provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard against the
> > > grill.
> > >
> > >
> > > I then removed the aftermarket fan and re-installed my stock fan (by the
> > > way both fans had dense foam stuffed into the sides of the fan shroud to
> > > seal the gap between the shroud and car body to prevent the fan from
> > > sucking any air from inside the engine compartment).  I found the stock fan
> > > could easily hold the mass of cardboard I ended up with when testing the
> > > aftermarket fan.  I then proceeded to add more and more cardboard until the
> > > stock fan could not provide enough suction to hold the mass of cardboard to
> > > the grill.  Both tests were performed with the tub out.
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't have a scale small enough to weigh the different amounts of
> > > cardboard to quantify the difference in weight but I did calculate the
> > > equivalent area of card board that each fan could hold.  The aftermarket
> > > fan held 677 square inches of cardboard and the stock fan held 782 square
> > > inches (15.5% more).  So obviously I was not getting as much condenser
> > > cooling with the aftermarket fan.
> > >
> > >
> > > I then proceeded to test the A/C with the tub in.  I put a temperature
> > > probe in the dash vent which indicated 70 degrees ambient.  I turned the
> > > A/C on saw that the vent air temperature was an indicated 25 degrees.  I
> > > won't really know how good it performs until we get some hot weather around
> > > here.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I heard a lot of people talk about parallel flow condensers.  I know I
> > > don't have a stock condenser but I don't really know what kind came with
> > > the car.   When I was switching condenser fans, I took a closer look at it
> > > and I'm wondering if it is a parallel flow design.   I took some pictures
> > > of it to see if someone can tell me what I have.
> > > http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=40199
> > >
> > >
> > > Any and all comments are welcome.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > #5186
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 12
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 08:51:05 -0700
> > From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > To: Vinh Ly <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com>, Pantera list serve
> > 	<detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <SNT139-W3441EDDEE56A9FC10105BDBCB80 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> > 
> > Neat car!  I like the front spoiler.  I just reinstalled mine after losing the previous one on the freeway on the 3200-mile, round-trip to the Pantera Owner's Club of America's annual Fun Rally (if you haven't gone, that's something you absolutely must attend next year) when I hit some debris on the freeway.
> > Congratulations, and best wishes on the exciting journey you're beginning!
> > Sincerely,
> > Chris KimballPresident, Panteras Northwest
> > 
> > > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:09:20 -0400
> > > From: vinh.d.ly at gmail.com
> > > To: detomaso at poca.com
> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > > 
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I am pleased to announce that I am the proud new owner of 1975 Euro GTS
> > > #7445.  I picked it up from the Cape in Massachusetts yesterday from the
> > > previous owner who had enjoyed it since 1989.  I had a 2 hour drive to get
> > > acquainted with the car while driving it to New Hampshire.  It drove and
> > > handled like a dream.  I could not ask for a better day to listen to the
> > > Cleveland Orchestra.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Along with the car came a thick file folder of documentation and receipts.  I
> > > have been able to trace some of the history of #7445.  It was shipped from
> > > West Germany to the US in 1983.  The owner at that time registered the car
> > > in California.   It would stay there until 1989 when it was sold and moved
> > > to New England.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > #7445 has a light restoration, it has a two tone silver paint job.  Stopping
> > > power is provided by ?85 vette brakes.  The windows have the Vader  window
> > > lifts which other owners say are premium.  The heads were rebuilt with
> > > stainless steel valves and three angle cut.  The steering rack was also
> > > rebuilt.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I have to thank Larry W. who I met at a Merrimack, NH car show a couple
> > > years back where I first saw his ?74 and which rekindled my interest.  He
> > > also let me ride along with him to the 2012 Tutto Italiano Car Show in
> > > Brookline, MA which increased my determination in locating one.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Here is a link to pictures of #7445.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw
> > > 
> > > 
> > > <https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw>
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Vinh
> > > 
> > > #7445
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > 
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > 
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >  		 	   		  
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 13
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:01:33 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Pantera at Auto Italia at Brooklands
> > To: detomaso at POCA.com
> > Message-ID: <98617.1beb4e85.3eb7ea6d at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> > 
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > Yesterday was the annual Auto Italia festival at Brooklands, the legendary 
> > race track/airfield/manufacturing/testing complex in Weybridge, Surrey, 
> > England.   Auto Italia magazine hosts a festival for Italian cars, and part of 
> > it includes cars going up the test hill, which was built in 1909 to allow 
> > manufacturers to test not only their ability to make cars that could climb, but 
> > also descend safely.   Here's some info:
> > 
> > http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.php?/explore/test-hill/
> > 
> > Geoff Peters (my best man at the wedding last week) lives only a few miles 
> > away, and always puts on a great show.   Last year he forgot about the whole 
> > 'stopping' thing, and flew the car and crashed into a wooden barrier!   
> > This year he was a bit more circumspect, but no less impressive!
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUes9go_9hI
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbd7BwOvY90
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 14
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:01:44 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > To: vinh.d.ly at gmail.com, detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <98626.6b9a1c44.3eb7ea78 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> > 
> > Vinh,
> > 
> > You got a GREAT car, I think!   This car has been on the market for quite 
> > awhile, and I think people were unfairly afraid of it because it was 
> > nominally an east coast car.   I met the previous owner and saw the car at Pocono 
> > many years ago, and was VERY impressed with both.   I urged several people to 
> > buy this car in the past year or so.
> > 
> > Congratulations to you!
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:01:42 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: tmshinro at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <98623.7ce046c9.3eb7ea76 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> > 
> > 
> > In a message dated 5/5/13 6 01 38, tmshinro at aol.com writes:
> > 
> > 
> > > Just curious what is the solution to the evaporator icing up...dial in 
> > > some heat from the heater?
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >>>...or select a slightly warmer setting on the A/C temp control.   People 
> > treat it like an on/off switch, but it is a rheostat, and you can select an 
> > intermediate setting which might enable it to run continuously?
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 16
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:22:11 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera at Auto Italia at Brooklands
> > To: MikeLDrew at aol.com, detomaso at POCA.com
> > Message-ID: <8D017CC366B588D-1A84-4603 at Webmail-d108.sysops.aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > 
> > Yikes!!
> > Spectators three-deep against a flimsy wooden fence close to the road!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > To: detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> > Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 10:01 am
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Pantera at Auto Italia at Brooklands
> > 
> > 
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > Yesterday was the annual Auto Italia festival at Brooklands, the legendary 
> > race track/airfield/manufacturing/testing complex in Weybridge, Surrey, 
> > England.   Auto Italia magazine hosts a festival for Italian cars, and part of 
> > it includes cars going up the test hill, which was built in 1909 to allow 
> > manufacturers to test not only their ability to make cars that could climb, but 
> > also descend safely.   Here's some info:
> > 
> > http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.php?/explore/test-hill/
> > 
> > Geoff Peters (my best man at the wedding last week) lives only a few miles 
> > away, and always puts on a great show.   Last year he forgot about the whole 
> > 'stopping' thing, and flew the car and crashed into a wooden barrier!   
> > This year he was a bit more circumspect, but no less impressive!
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUes9go_9hI
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbd7BwOvY90
> > 
> > Mike
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 17
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 10:35:39 -0700
> > From: "Tomas Gunnarsson" <guson at home.se>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > To: <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> > Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> > Message-ID: <A1168AB7DDCA44B993190544DF11C05B at mail2world.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > The original controller is nothing but a thermostatic on-off switch.
> > There is also no other way to run the compressor than on/off. As long as
> > the system has over-cooling capacity the switch will turn on and off but
> > when it's not enough to keep the temp down it never stops. The solution
> > to de-icing the evaporator is as simple as turning the AC off and
> > keeping the heater fan running.
> >  
> > Tomas
> > 
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> > From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> > Sent: 5/5/2013 7:02:08 PM
> > To: tmshinro at aol.com; detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A/C condensor fan test results
> > 
> > In a message dated 5/5/13 6 01 38, tmshinro at aol.com writes:
> > 
> > 
> > > Just curious what is the solution to the evaporator icing up...dial in
> > > some heat from the heater?
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > >>>...or select a slightly warmer setting on the A/C temp control.
> > People 
> > treat it like an on/off switch, but it is a rheostat, and you can select
> > an 
> > intermediate setting which might enable it to run continuously?
> > 
> > Mike
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <P><p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" style="font-size:13.5px">_______________________________________________________________<BR>Annons: <a href="http://blimedlem.spray.se/">Skaffa Spray Mail du ocks? - Gratis, enkelt och s?kert!</a></font>
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 11:06:57 -0700
> > From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] LED question
> > To: Pantera list serve <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <DUB406-EAS3504EE18DB11B9D61D19E53BCB80 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> > 
> > I have a question, and am sure I'll get multiple responses, so here goes!
> > 
> > Years ago my wife bought me an LED light kit, which I really like.  During some of the drives during the fun rally, though, some people commented that my brake lights and especially rear turn signal lights were very faint and hard to see.  Do you think a replacement LED bulb kit from a regular auto parts store would be better, or is there some sort of specialty LED bulbs I can get?
> > 
> > Thanks for your advice,
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 19
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 14:21:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
> > From: bill gaino <gaino at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LED question
> > To: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>, 	Pantera list serve
> > 	<detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<8251993.1367778115421.JavaMail.root at elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> > 	
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > 
> > Chris, I bought some 6 led direct replacement bulbs that fit the 1156 and 1157 sockets. They were like 5 dollars and very dim. The good ones that come from Space City have a board that incorperates many led bulbs, This is their third generation kit. I'm sure Jon Haas also does a kit, Pantera Electronics. Your wife will need about 300 bucks this time. Bill 1362
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Christopher Kimball <chrisvkimball at msn.com>
> > >Sent: May 5, 2013 2:06 PM
> > >To: Pantera list serve <detomaso at poca.com>
> > >Subject: [DeTomaso] LED question
> > >
> > >I have a question, and am sure I'll get multiple responses, so here goes!
> > >
> > >Years ago my wife bought me an LED light kit, which I really like.  During some of the drives during the fun rally, though, some people commented that my brake lights and especially rear turn signal lights were very faint and hard to see.  Do you think a replacement LED bulb kit from a regular auto parts store would be better, or is there some sort of specialty LED bulbs I can get?
> > >
> > >Thanks for your advice,
> > >
> > >Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >Sent from my Windows Phone
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > >DeTomaso mailing list
> > >DeTomaso at poca.com
> > >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > If you want it SLICK.. bring it to SLICKUM Paint Shop www.slickpaint.com
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 20
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 13:35:47 -0500
> > From: " Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LED question
> > To: "'Christopher Kimball'" <chrisvkimball at msn.com>,	"'Pantera list
> > 	serve'" <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID: <001b01ce49bf$5c80a900$1581fb00$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > Dear Chris,
> > 
> > 
> >               This sounds like a familiar problem.  Years ago when Space
> > City Panteras came out with their first Pantera LED package, I bought it and
> > installed it.  Better.
> > 
> >               When their second generation kit came out, I bought it for the
> > other Pantera. Better.
> > 
> >              When their most recent kit came out last year after the rally I
> > took notice.  My brother and I had driven both Panteras from Oklahoma City
> > to the Rally and I had noticed that the LEDs weren't bright in the direct
> > sunlight.  I bought the 2012 Space City LED set and it a big improvement
> > over the previous iterations.
> > 
> >              If you want to plug and play then contact John Taphorn for info
> > on availability and price.  If you want a more serious and expensive
> > solution then look and John Haas' Pantera Electronics website for info and
> > price regarding his LED solution.
> > 
> > 
> >                        Warmest regards,  Chuck Engles
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
> > Of Christopher Kimball
> > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 1:07 PM
> > To: Pantera list serve
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] LED question
> > 
> > I have a question, and am sure I'll get multiple responses, so here goes!
> > 
> > Years ago my wife bought me an LED light kit, which I really like.  During
> > some of the drives during the fun rally, though, some people commented that
> > my brake lights and especially rear turn signal lights were very faint and
> > hard to see.  Do you think a replacement LED bulb kit from a regular auto
> > parts store would be better, or is there some sort of specialty LED bulbs I
> > can get?
> > 
> > Thanks for your advice,
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 21
> > Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 18:39:21 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: shawkins777 at comcast.net
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445
> > Cc: "forum, Pantera" <detomaso at poca.com>
> > Message-ID:
> > 	<2105421209.333419.1367779161423.JavaMail.root at sz0134a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
> > 	
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > 
> > Welcome to our obsession. 
> > 
> > Steve 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Vinh Ly" <vinh.d.ly at gmail.com> 
> > To: "forum, Pantera" <detomaso at poca.com> 
> > Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 8:09:20 AM 
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] New Owner For '75 Euro GTS #7445 
> > 
> > Hello Everyone, 
> > 
> > 
> > I am pleased to announce that I am the proud new owner of 1975 Euro GTS 
> > #7445. I picked it up from the Cape in Massachusetts yesterday from the 
> > previous owner who had enjoyed it since 1989. I had a 2 hour drive to get 
> > acquainted with the car while driving it to New Hampshire. It drove and 
> > handled like a dream. I could not ask for a better day to listen to the 
> > Cleveland Orchestra. 
> > 
> > 
> > Along with the car came a thick file folder of documentation and receipts. I 
> > have been able to trace some of the history of #7445. It was shipped from 
> > West Germany to the US in 1983. The owner at that time registered the car 
> > in California. It would stay there until 1989 when it was sold and moved 
> > to New England. 
> > 
> > 
> > #7445 has a light restoration, it has a two tone silver paint job. Stopping 
> > power is provided by ?85 vette brakes. The windows have the Vader window 
> > lifts which other owners say are premium. The heads were rebuilt with 
> > stainless steel valves and three angle cut. The steering rack was also 
> > rebuilt. 
> > 
> > 
> > I have to thank Larry W. who I met at a Merrimack, NH car show a couple 
> > years back where I first saw his ?74 and which rekindled my interest. He 
> > also let me ride along with him to the 2012 Tutto Italiano Car Show in 
> > Brookline, MA which increased my determination in locating one. 
> > 
> > 
> > Here is a link to pictures of #7445. 
> > 
> > 
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw 
> > 
> > 
> > <https://picasaweb.google.com/102203242005561828067/7445?authkey=Gv1sRgCILZr8KksZLKUw> 
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > 
> > Vinh 
> > 
> > #7445 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA 
> > 
> > DeTomaso mailing list 
> > DeTomaso at poca.com 
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > 
> > 
> > End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 107, Issue 5
> > ****************************************



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