[DeTomaso] MSD fuel injection

Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Mon Mar 11 21:13:10 EDT 2013


On Mar 11, 2013, at 7:50 PM, Justin Greisberg <justingreisberg at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Did you set up the system yourself?

Yes, I did. Installed it all. I had some help from Mike Trusty who has used the Electromotive systems before. I admit to going through some struggling in the beginning.
The EM system was so much different and had so many features that the Haltech didn't have.
I also fought bitterly with what turned out to be a faulty harness from the factory. That was extremely frustrating.
It's new, right? Should be good, right?
Nope…

Once replaced under warranty, I've never had another problem with it.

>  Obviously  a person who is experienced with EFI will have an advantage over a newbie like me.  But remember, all these things are advertised as 'Install it on saturday, drive it on sunday to the show…'    

I was a newbie, too. The persevering part was the difficult bit.
As for the 'install and drive', I'm sorry, but any time I read that, I say no. My experience with four different cars says that will not happen except in maybe very 'nice' circumstances.
That is… it's not a radical cam, it's not an individual runner system, etc. etc.
It could happen, but I doubt it. Every engine is different and we change so many things in our Panteras.
A stock motor and just switch over to EFI, maybe…. maybe….

> I like the idea of a fast idle on cold starting, that is the benefit of the idle motor control system.  As I spend more time with the whole thing, I am beginning to understand my some people just eliminate the idle circuit entirely.

Agreed. You can always add a fast idle solenoid and have the ECU activate that until the coolant temp gets where you want.
I've never had to use that approach so far. I just use the 'warm up enrichment' constants. 

> A fuel injection system on your own from scratch is not easy.  A carb is not easy to tune either, but the reality is that for most motors, if you take an appropriate carb out-of-the-box and use it, it will run pretty well.

I've had two carburetors sent to me in the distant past that were supposed to 'just work' and they were specifically for 'my motor'. I ended up sending them back and getting my money back.
A Demon carb wouldn't even let the car idle at any rpm and it ran like crap anywhere else.
An out of the box Holley worked well as a get started though, as you say. The trouble is, I pulled my carburetor so many times to adjust it, I got sick of it.
Like I told the guys here…. have you ever adjusted your idle and your jet size sitting at the stop light?
:-)

>  Fuel injection is a lot like a carb that can be tuned with a computer, so I like the concept, and I still like the potential, but after 4 years of more tuning than pleasure driving, I wonder about all those pleasure cruises I missed out on.  

I can understand that completely. I can remember one Saturday where I was ready to 'do an Elvis' and shoot everything and sell it.
Even my Lightning took a dump on me going to the parts store to get new plugs for the GT40.
MAF went south, but hey…. it's got 161,000 miles on it. Runs great now that the MAF is replaced.

> Part is because customer support for my system is very low because the company was bought out by another company a month after I installed it.  But with any system, tuning over the phone with a helpful tech is still a challenge.

I've had my issues with Electromotive also, but in the end, we have worked things out.
They replaced my TEC GT under warranty. I wouldn't call their support stellar, but it's damned good.

If you're not getting the support you need from 'Retroteck', have you considered biting they bullet and moving to another system?
Just asking…. I know it can be big bucks.

Good luck,
Kirby


> 
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] MSD fuel injection
> > From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> > Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:24:21 -0500
> > CC: detomaso at poca.com
> > To: justingreisberg at hotmail.com
> > 
> > Justin,
> > 
> > Wow…. I'm honestly sorry to hear that.
> > 
> > Even though I've had some issues (and all the local guys in the Houston area know of my trials and tribulations), I am still very happy with my Electromotive systems.
> > One on the GT40 (TEC3r) and one on the Pantera (TEC GT).
> > 
> > I used to have an F9a Haltech (fuel only) on the Pantera. It was a 1996? system that I installed in 2000.
> > Never had a bit of problem until all the smoke went out of it after 14 years.
> > 
> > I would NEVER go back to a carburetor. 
> > Even if 'The Carbman' threatens me some more!
> > :-)
> > 
> > I turn on the key on the GT40. I push the start button.
> > It starts.
> > I don't even have to be in the car to pump it or turn off the key again and try again or…. anything.
> > 
> > The Pantera? Just got the EFI installed a couple of months ago. Wasn't the EFI that had me baffled on it.
> > It was the damned coils. I won't _EVER_ buy anything that has smoke in it off of eBay again.
> > 
> > Still got some tweaking to do with the Pantera startup settings, but it always starts.
> > It's in the paint shop right now and I sure as hell hope it's finished for the Fun Rally. I intend on driving the car there.
> > A first in my history.
> > 
> > Oh, and I don't use an IAC on either car. I've never found a reason to use one?
> > 
> > And yes, a chassis dyno helps a lot, but isn't strictly necessary. Just takes more time and lots of logging.
> > The buttometer helps some, too.
> > I took the GT40 to a dyno. It was a total waste of time and money. The guy said…. 'Oh, you don't have a FAST system?'
> > We struggled from there and I went home.
> > 
> > FWIW,
> > Kirby
> > 
> > PS: Some of the above are 'inside jokes'. You _know_ who you are! Bill!
> > :-)
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Justin Greisberg <justingreisberg at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > I still am the voice of reason in the EFI discussions. I have been working with my Retrotek EFI system for 4+ years now. Still doesnt run as well as my carb'd engines. I am making progress, and I hope that one day I will have a really nice setup. But I would never do it on another vintage car. And there is nothing plug and play about it. I still have not achieved satisfaction in cranking, cold engine running, and idle. i have not yet really worked on acceleration much at all. With a chassis dyno and an EFI system and some time, it is possible to really do some nice stuff. But without a chassis dyno, becomes more tedious. And the various settings and controls are not so intuitive and not so easy for an interested amateur. MSD system looks more or less comparable to FAST EZ EFI and retrotek (professional products). The ACCEL DFI looks even more confusing to me... justin
> > > P.S. - a big problem with the pantera is that, if the engine does not catch on the first try with the starter, you have to turn ignition to off and then on again to crank the starter again. In some, maybe all, of these systems, ignition off starts a process of resetting the idle control motor. That takes maybe a minute or so, but there is not outward indicator of the process. If you dont give it that full minute, then when you re-crank, the idle motor is not in the right position and the car wont run right the entire time it is running. Ask me how many years that took me to figure that out.... that is the kind of thing you discover when you try to make these things work. justin 
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