[DeTomaso] Odd ebay listings

Sat Jun 15 14:38:38 EDT 2013

Bill,

Exactly.  That is why I'd rather not have my full VIN number floating around
on the web.   I'm fine with the last four digits and they are all over the
place on the web.  Many of the newer cars like my 2009 Mustang have their
VINs exposed through the windshield and I have mine covered over with an
easily removable cover and can be only removed from the inside of the car.
Call me paranoid but .... 

Mike

From: Bill Lewis [mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 1:57 PM
To: panteraplace 
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Odd ebay listings

Along this same line of thought, if a person wanted to bring an illegal car
into America, and actually drive it - couldn't they just either jack with
the title somehow, or switch a legal license plate onto it and drive away
into the sunset!    ---BILL Lewis

> From: mbefthomas at comcast.net
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com; 
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 08:33:59 -0700
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd ebay listings
> 
> Mike, I appreciated very much your explanation below, and think that would
> be a good thing to reprint in Profiles or the newsletter in the near
future.
> This is also something we might think about weaving into the upgrades
being
> considered to the POCA website.
> 
> Mike Thomas
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
Behalf
> Of MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 9:36 PM
> To: panteraplace at hotmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd ebay listings
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/14/13 18 14 9, panteraplace at hotmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> > Could be and probably another good reason for not publishing full VINs 
> > on the web.  I've been told that someone tried to publish my VIN on a 
> > website, but they have the number wrong so I guess it does not matter.
> > 
> 
> >>>Not yet, anyway. At least, not to you.
> 
> However, I think it's important to point out that you're displaying what I

> consider to be spectacularly faulty reasoning.
> 
> My VIN is THPNMD03960. It's important to me that this is public 
> information.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Well, by way of contrast, consider several scenarious surrounding your 
> "I've got a secret" philosophy about your car's identity.
> 
> Let's say that somebody plucks some Pantera photos off the web, or from a 
> car show, then attempts to market the car somehow and assigns it your VIN.
> 
> Prospective buyers would hopefully conduct due diligence, and look for
that 
> VIN in the registry to try to learn more about the car. Failing to find 
> any information, they are left to proceed on good faith. An unsuspecting 
> buyer can be seduced by a well-written ad, money changes hands, then the 
> perpetrator disappears into thin air, leaving the poor would-be buyer
> holding the 
> bag, with nothing to show for his expenditure.
> 
> Granted, this doesn't affect you personally--it's somebody else's problem.

> But you could have prevented it and chose not to.
> 
> Now, consider a more powerful scenario. You come home from work one day 
> and find your garage door open, and your Pantera is gone. Thieves have 
> spirited it away and it crosses the country. Through various shenanigans, 
> dubious paperwork is generated which gives them the appearance of
legitimate
> 
> ownership of the car, and the thieves then offer it up for sale. A
> prospective 
> buyer, once again, does his due diligence, and finds no information in the

> registry, and presented with a real car and matching paperwork, money
trades
> 
> hands and the car is now in the hands of a new owner.
> 
> The car could then trade hands, legally, several times, and many years 
> could go by before it's discovered that the car was stolen. You, of
> course, 
> would have no recourse because your insurance company paid the claim the 
> moment you reported the car stolen to them, and thus they technically
became
> the 
> legal owners. Their lawyers can go after the car and attempt to seize it, 
> and eventually they would prevail, but in the meantime, there would be
years
> 
> of legal wrangling between the various parties, with claims and 
> counter-claims. You would also have a very difficult time, as you would
> have to 
> engage lawyers to go after your insurance company if you wanted to
retrieve
> the 
> car and return their payment to you, and there is no reason to believe you

> would be successful in that endeavor.
> 
> (Note that this actually happened with a non-Pantera not too long ago;
lots 
> of lawsuits resulted but the car was returned to the person who lost it
40+ 
> years ago, only because the car wasn't insured so there was no insurance 
> company to claim it).
> 
> In this instance, having your car fully documented in the registry would 
> have made it virtually un-steal-able. Well, thieves could still take it,
> but 
> it would be much, much more difficult for them to sell it, because there 
> would be plenty of information contrary to their story available to the
> public 
> (and also, presumably, because you would have updated your registry entry 
> to highlight the fact that your car had been stolen).
> 
> The Shelby guys figured this out many, many years ago. It is virtually 
> impossible to get away with stealing and then selling a Shelby, because
> their 
> registry is so air-tight. The overwhelming majority of classic Shelbys 
> (probably 98% or more) are fully documented in the registry, so it's a
> simple 
> matter to pick up the book (they are very old-school still) and verify the

> story behind a given car. Too, the club does an excellent job of policing 
> the marketplace, and whenever a potentially fraudulent car comes to light,

> they issue a very public warning about it (much as we try to do here,
albeit
> on 
> a much more haphazard basis).
> 
> So, you can keep your car's identity a secret if you wish, but don't think

> that you are doing yourself, or anybody else, any favors by doing so....
> 
> Mike
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