[DeTomaso] NPC: Doolittle Raiders
gow2 at rc-tech.net
gow2 at rc-tech.net
Mon Jul 29 21:33:39 EDT 2013
Yes. Lift is not really needed when accelerating in this situation. No
need to slow it down when every inch is important.
> So its all about building up ss much speed at the expense of lift until
> the
> few seconds...that makes sense.
>
> Thanks
> On Jul 29, 2013 9:21 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
>
>> It is not about the extra runway traded for deck height. If they pulled
>> back to create the lift to lift it off the runway right at the end of
>> the
>> runway, the increase in lift would also increase drag. They are
>> basically
>> waiting to create the lift as long as possible to keep form building up
>> drag.
>>
>>
>> > I have always marvelled at how even in the best of conditions back
>> then,
>> > many if not most of the planes dropped below the flight deck level
>> when
>> > they left the carrier before gaining altitude. There must be some
>> formula
>> > relating to the extra "pretend runway footage" that you get from being
>> 6
>> > or
>> > 8 stories above the water at the end of the flightdeck.
>> >
>> > Michael Shortt
>> > On Jul 29, 2013 9:03 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Good information on the take off distance. I had always had that info
>> >> from
>> >> what I read but I interpreted it incorrectly. Much of that came form
>> the
>> >> discussion planning before they actually did the take off and from
>> the
>> >> #2
>> >> pilot who figured if JD had room then he had room. Turned out the
>> >> headwind
>> >> was plenty of room and the concern soon fell.
>> >>
>> >> It is one thing to lift off by a certain mark on the ground, another
>> to
>> >> do
>> >> it off a carrier.
>> >>
>> >> G
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > In fact every aircraft took off from the same spot. The B-25
>> bombers
>> >> were
>> >> > too wide to take advantage of the additional space that was freed
>> up
>> >> by
>> >> > the
>> >> > planes that preceded them in taking off. There was a fear that if
>> they
>> >> > tried to take advantage of the additional length they would hit the
>> >> super
>> >> > structure of the carrier or go off on the left side as they tried
>> to
>> >> avoid
>> >> > the super structure on the right. The carrier headed into the wind
>> at
>> >> full
>> >> > speed and the B-25's took off one at a time. They were so short on
>> >> fuel
>> >> > (especially due to being forced to take off early due to being
>> spotted
>> >> by
>> >> > a
>> >> > Japanese picket ship that was able to radio a warning to japan
>> before
>> >> it
>> >> > was sunk by the destroyer Nashville) that they weren't able to form
>> up
>> >> and
>> >> > fly together in formation so each bomber flew on by it's self
>> heading
>> >> > toward Tokyo as soon as they took off. The B-25's were not
>> completely
>> >> > stripped off armaments, they had two .50 machine guns in the upper
>> >> turret
>> >> > and a .30 machine gun in the nose (these came in handy as three
>> >> Japanese
>> >> > fighters were shot down by them) One by *Whirling Dervish*, piloted
>> by
>> >> > Lieutenant Harold Watson and Two other fighters were shot down by
>> the
>> >> > gunners of the *Hari Kari-er*, piloted by Ross Greening. The tail
>> guns
>> >> > were
>> >> > removed and replaced with broom sticks to discourage attacks from
>> the
>> >> rear
>> >> > by Japanese fighters. They also strafed targets in Japan after they
>> >> > dropped
>> >> > their bombs.
>> >> > Boyd
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> It helped having a Ph.D. from MIT in aeronautical engineering.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ________________________________
>> >> >> From: "gow2 at rc-tech.net" <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>> >> >> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> >> >> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:09 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Doolittle Raiders
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The airplanes were stripped of every piece of weight they could
>> take
>> >> off
>> >> >> including armor and guns. The most risk on take off was form the
>> >> first
>> >> >> B-25 which was Jimmy Doolittle. As each aircraft took off the
>> length
>> >> for
>> >> >> take off increased by the airplane that was no longer on the deck
>> of
>> >> the
>> >> >> carrier.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Japan did not think their home land could be hit and these guys
>> had
>> >> no
>> >> >> good return plan. It was a one way trip. This hit on Japan changed
>> >> the
>> >> >> direction we were going on in the war.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jimmy Doolittle is also known for being the first to successfully
>> >> >> develop
>> >> >> and fly an instrument approach and many other things.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> G
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I'm guessing that most of the list member are much more familiar
>> >> with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > Doolittle Raiders than most Americans, but it's still worth
>> >> reading.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Subject: Doolittle Raiders
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>....interesting historical account from WWII
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>Doolittle Raiders
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>Perhaps this item will warm your heart?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>It's the cup of brandy that no one wants to drink.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Tuesday, in Fort Walton Beach , Florida , the
>> surviving
>> >> >> >>>Doolittle Raiders gathered publicly for the last time.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> They once were among the most universally admired and
>> >> revered
>> >> >> >>>men
>> >> >> >>>in the United States . There were 80 of the Raiders in April
>> 1942,
>> >> >> >>>when they carried out one of the most courageous and
>> >> >> >>>heart-stirring military operations in this nation's history.
>> The
>> >> >> >>>mere mention of their unit's name, in those years, would bring
>> >> >> >>>tears to the eyes of grateful Americans.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Now only four survive.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> After Japan's sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, with the
>> >> United
>> >> >> >>>States reeling and wounded, something dramatic was needed to
>> turn
>> >> >> >>>the war effort around.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Even though there were no friendly airfields close
>> enough
>> >> to
>> >> >> >>>Japan for the United States to launch a retaliation, a daring
>> >> >> >>>plan was devised. Sixteen B-25s were modified so that they
>> could
>> >> >> >>>take off from the deck of an aircraft carrier. This had never
>> >> >> >>>before been tried -- sending such big, heavy bombers from a
>> >> >> >>>carrier.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The 16 five-man crews, under the command of Lt. Col.
>> James
>> >> >> >>>Doolittle, who himself flew the lead plane off the USS Hornet,
>> >> >> >>>knew that they would not be able to return to the carrier. They
>> >> >> >>>would have to hit Japan and then hope to make it to China for a
>> >> >> >>>safe landing.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> But on the day of the raid, the Japanese military
>> caught
>> >> wind
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >>>the plan. The Raiders were told that they would have to take
>> off
>> >> >> >>>from much farther out in the Pacific Ocean than they had
>> counted
>> >> >> >>>on. They were told that because of this they would not have
>> >> >> >>>enough fuel to make it to safety.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> And those men went anyway.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> They bombed Tokyo , and then flew as far as they could.
>> >> Four
>> >> >> >>>planes crash-landed; 11 more crews bailed out, and three of the
>> >> >> >>>Raiders died. Eight more were captured; three were executed.
>> >> >> >>>Another died of starvation in a Japanese prison camp. One crew
>> >> >> >>>made it to Russia .
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The Doolittle Raid sent a message from the United
>> States
>> >> to
>> >> >> its
>> >> >> >>>enemies, and to the rest of the world: We will fight. And, no
>> >> >> >>>matter what it takes, we will win.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Of the 80 Raiders, 62 survived the war. They were
>> >> celebrated
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> >>>national heroes, models of bravery. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer
>> produced
>> >> >> >>>a motion picture based on the raid; "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo
>> ,"
>> >> >> >>>starring Spencer Tracy and Van Johnson, was a patriotic and
>> >> >> >>>emotional box-office hit, and the phrase became part of the
>> >> >> >>>national lexicon. In the movie-theater previews for the film,
>> MGM
>> >> >> >>>proclaimed that it was presenting the story "with supreme
>> pride."
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Beginning in 1946, the surviving Raiders have held a
>> >> reunion
>> >> >> >>>each
>> >> >> >>>April, to commemorate the mission. The reunion is in a
>> different
>> >> >> >>>city each year. In 1959, the city of Tucson , Arizona , as a
>> >> >> >>>gesture of respect and gratitude, presented the Doolittle
>> Raiders
>> >> >> >>>with a set of 80 silver goblets. Each goblet was engraved with
>> >> >> >>>the name of a Raider.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Every year, a wooden display case bearing all 80
>> goblets
>> >> is
>> >> >> >>>transported to the reunion city. Each time a Raider passes
>> away,
>> >> >> >>>his goblet is turned upside down in the case at the next
>> reunion,
>> >> >> >>>as his old friends bear solemn witness.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Also in the wooden case is a bottle of 1896 Hennessy
>> Very
>> >> >> >>>Special
>> >> >> >>>cognac. The year is not happenstance: 1896 was when Jimmy
>> >> >> >>>Doolittle was born.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> There has always been a plan: When there are only two
>> >> >> surviving
>> >> >> >>>Raiders, they would open the bottle, at last drink from it, and
>> >> >> >>>toast their comrades who preceded them in death.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> As 2013 began, there were five living Raiders; then, in
>> >> >> >>>February,
>> >> >> >>>Tom Griffin passed away at age 96.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> What a man he was. After bailing out of his plane over
>> a
>> >> >> >>>mountainous Chinese forest after the Tokyo raid, he became ill
>> >> >> >>>with malaria, and almost died. When he recovered, he was sent
>> to
>> >> >> >>>Europe to fly more combat missions. He was shot down, captured,
>> >> >> >>>and spent 22 months in a German prisoner of war camp.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The selflessness of these men, the sheer guts ... there
>> >> was a
>> >> >> >>>passage in the Cincinnati Enquirer obituary for Mr. Griffin
>> that,
>> >> >> >>>on the surface, had nothing to do with the war, but that
>> >> >> >>>emblematizes the depth of his sense of duty and devotion:
>> >> >> >>> "When his wife became ill and needed to go into a
>> nursing
>> >> >> home,
>> >> >> >>>he visited her every day. He walked from his house to the
>> nursing
>> >> >> >>>home, fed his wife and at the end of the day brought home her
>> >> >> >>>clothes. At night, he washed and ironed her clothes. Then he
>> >> >> >>>walked them up to her room the next morning. He did that for
>> >> >> >>>three years until her death in 2005."
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> So now, out of the original 80, only four Raiders
>> remain:
>> >> >> Dick
>> >> >> >>>Cole (Doolittle's co-pilot on the Tokyo raid), Robert Hite,
>> >> >> >>>Edward Saylor and David Thatcher. All are in their 90s. They
>> have
>> >> >> >>>decided that there are too few of them for the public reunions
>> to
>> >> >> >>>continue.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The events in Fort Walton Beach this week will mark the
>> >> end.
>> >> >> It
>> >> >> >>>has come full circle; Florida 's nearby Eglin Field was where
>> the
>> >> >> >>>Raiders trained in secrecy for the Tokyo mission. The town is
>> >> >> >>>planning to do all it can to honor the men: a six-day
>> celebration
>> >> >> >>>of their valor, including luncheons, a dinner and a parade.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Do the men ever wonder if those of us for whom they
>> helped
>> >> >> save
>> >> >> >>>the country have tended to it in a way that is worthy of their
>> >> >> >>>sacrifice? They don't talk about that, at least not around
>> other
>> >> >> >>>people. But if you find yourself near Fort Walton Beach this
>> >> >> >>>week, and if you should encounter any of the Raiders, you might
>> >> >> >>>want to offer them a word of thanks. I can tell you from
>> >> >> >>>firsthand observation that they appreciate hearing that they
>> are
>> >> >> >>>remembered.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The men have decided that after this final public
>> reunion
>> >> >> they
>> >> >> >>>will wait until a later date -- some time this year -- to get
>> >> >> >>>together once more, informally and in absolute privacy. That is
>> >> >> >>>when they will open the bottle of brandy. The years are flowing
>> >> >> >>>by too swiftly now; they are not going to wait until there are
>> >> >> >>>only two of them.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> They will fill the four remaining upturned goblets.
>> >> >> >>> And raise them in a toast to those who are gone.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> PLEASE SEND THIS ON TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK,
>> >> >> ESPECIALLY
>> >> >> >>>TO THOSE WHO WERE TOO YOUNG TO KNOW ABOUT THESE GUYS. THIS
>> SHOULD
>> >> >> >>>BE READ BY EVERY KID IN GRADE AND HIGH SCHOOL SO THEY KNOW WHAT
>> >> >> >>>HAPPENED.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> >> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>> >> >> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >> >>
>> >> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> >> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >>
>> >> DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>
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