[DeTomaso] NPC: Doolittle Raiders
michael@michaelshortt.com
michaelsavga at gmail.com
Mon Jul 29 21:29:14 EDT 2013
So its all about building up ss much speed at the expense of lift until the
few seconds...that makes sense.
Thanks
On Jul 29, 2013 9:21 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
> It is not about the extra runway traded for deck height. If they pulled
> back to create the lift to lift it off the runway right at the end of the
> runway, the increase in lift would also increase drag. They are basically
> waiting to create the lift as long as possible to keep form building up
> drag.
>
>
> > I have always marvelled at how even in the best of conditions back then,
> > many if not most of the planes dropped below the flight deck level when
> > they left the carrier before gaining altitude. There must be some formula
> > relating to the extra "pretend runway footage" that you get from being 6
> > or
> > 8 stories above the water at the end of the flightdeck.
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> > On Jul 29, 2013 9:03 PM, <gow2 at rc-tech.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Good information on the take off distance. I had always had that info
> >> from
> >> what I read but I interpreted it incorrectly. Much of that came form the
> >> discussion planning before they actually did the take off and from the
> >> #2
> >> pilot who figured if JD had room then he had room. Turned out the
> >> headwind
> >> was plenty of room and the concern soon fell.
> >>
> >> It is one thing to lift off by a certain mark on the ground, another to
> >> do
> >> it off a carrier.
> >>
> >> G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > In fact every aircraft took off from the same spot. The B-25 bombers
> >> were
> >> > too wide to take advantage of the additional space that was freed up
> >> by
> >> > the
> >> > planes that preceded them in taking off. There was a fear that if they
> >> > tried to take advantage of the additional length they would hit the
> >> super
> >> > structure of the carrier or go off on the left side as they tried to
> >> avoid
> >> > the super structure on the right. The carrier headed into the wind at
> >> full
> >> > speed and the B-25's took off one at a time. They were so short on
> >> fuel
> >> > (especially due to being forced to take off early due to being spotted
> >> by
> >> > a
> >> > Japanese picket ship that was able to radio a warning to japan before
> >> it
> >> > was sunk by the destroyer Nashville) that they weren't able to form up
> >> and
> >> > fly together in formation so each bomber flew on by it's self heading
> >> > toward Tokyo as soon as they took off. The B-25's were not completely
> >> > stripped off armaments, they had two .50 machine guns in the upper
> >> turret
> >> > and a .30 machine gun in the nose (these came in handy as three
> >> Japanese
> >> > fighters were shot down by them) One by *Whirling Dervish*, piloted by
> >> > Lieutenant Harold Watson and Two other fighters were shot down by the
> >> > gunners of the *Hari Kari-er*, piloted by Ross Greening. The tail guns
> >> > were
> >> > removed and replaced with broom sticks to discourage attacks from the
> >> rear
> >> > by Japanese fighters. They also strafed targets in Japan after they
> >> > dropped
> >> > their bombs.
> >> > Boyd
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> It helped having a Ph.D. from MIT in aeronautical engineering.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ________________________________
> >> >> From: "gow2 at rc-tech.net" <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
> >> >> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> >> >> Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:09 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: Doolittle Raiders
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The airplanes were stripped of every piece of weight they could take
> >> off
> >> >> including armor and guns. The most risk on take off was form the
> >> first
> >> >> B-25 which was Jimmy Doolittle. As each aircraft took off the length
> >> for
> >> >> take off increased by the airplane that was no longer on the deck of
> >> the
> >> >> carrier.
> >> >>
> >> >> Japan did not think their home land could be hit and these guys had
> >> no
> >> >> good return plan. It was a one way trip. This hit on Japan changed
> >> the
> >> >> direction we were going on in the war.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jimmy Doolittle is also known for being the first to successfully
> >> >> develop
> >> >> and fly an instrument approach and many other things.
> >> >>
> >> >> G
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > I'm guessing that most of the list member are much more familiar
> >> with
> >> >> the
> >> >> > Doolittle Raiders than most Americans, but it's still worth
> >> reading.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Subject: Doolittle Raiders
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>....interesting historical account from WWII
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Doolittle Raiders
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>Perhaps this item will warm your heart?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>It's the cup of brandy that no one wants to drink.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> On Tuesday, in Fort Walton Beach , Florida , the surviving
> >> >> >>>Doolittle Raiders gathered publicly for the last time.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> They once were among the most universally admired and
> >> revered
> >> >> >>>men
> >> >> >>>in the United States . There were 80 of the Raiders in April 1942,
> >> >> >>>when they carried out one of the most courageous and
> >> >> >>>heart-stirring military operations in this nation's history. The
> >> >> >>>mere mention of their unit's name, in those years, would bring
> >> >> >>>tears to the eyes of grateful Americans.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Now only four survive.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> After Japan's sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, with the
> >> United
> >> >> >>>States reeling and wounded, something dramatic was needed to turn
> >> >> >>>the war effort around.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Even though there were no friendly airfields close enough
> >> to
> >> >> >>>Japan for the United States to launch a retaliation, a daring
> >> >> >>>plan was devised. Sixteen B-25s were modified so that they could
> >> >> >>>take off from the deck of an aircraft carrier. This had never
> >> >> >>>before been tried -- sending such big, heavy bombers from a
> >> >> >>>carrier.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The 16 five-man crews, under the command of Lt. Col. James
> >> >> >>>Doolittle, who himself flew the lead plane off the USS Hornet,
> >> >> >>>knew that they would not be able to return to the carrier. They
> >> >> >>>would have to hit Japan and then hope to make it to China for a
> >> >> >>>safe landing.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> But on the day of the raid, the Japanese military caught
> >> wind
> >> >> of
> >> >> >>>the plan. The Raiders were told that they would have to take off
> >> >> >>>from much farther out in the Pacific Ocean than they had counted
> >> >> >>>on. They were told that because of this they would not have
> >> >> >>>enough fuel to make it to safety.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> And those men went anyway.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> They bombed Tokyo , and then flew as far as they could.
> >> Four
> >> >> >>>planes crash-landed; 11 more crews bailed out, and three of the
> >> >> >>>Raiders died. Eight more were captured; three were executed.
> >> >> >>>Another died of starvation in a Japanese prison camp. One crew
> >> >> >>>made it to Russia .
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The Doolittle Raid sent a message from the United States
> >> to
> >> >> its
> >> >> >>>enemies, and to the rest of the world: We will fight. And, no
> >> >> >>>matter what it takes, we will win.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Of the 80 Raiders, 62 survived the war. They were
> >> celebrated
> >> >> as
> >> >> >>>national heroes, models of bravery. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer produced
> >> >> >>>a motion picture based on the raid; "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo ,"
> >> >> >>>starring Spencer Tracy and Van Johnson, was a patriotic and
> >> >> >>>emotional box-office hit, and the phrase became part of the
> >> >> >>>national lexicon. In the movie-theater previews for the film, MGM
> >> >> >>>proclaimed that it was presenting the story "with supreme pride."
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Beginning in 1946, the surviving Raiders have held a
> >> reunion
> >> >> >>>each
> >> >> >>>April, to commemorate the mission. The reunion is in a different
> >> >> >>>city each year. In 1959, the city of Tucson , Arizona , as a
> >> >> >>>gesture of respect and gratitude, presented the Doolittle Raiders
> >> >> >>>with a set of 80 silver goblets. Each goblet was engraved with
> >> >> >>>the name of a Raider.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Every year, a wooden display case bearing all 80 goblets
> >> is
> >> >> >>>transported to the reunion city. Each time a Raider passes away,
> >> >> >>>his goblet is turned upside down in the case at the next reunion,
> >> >> >>>as his old friends bear solemn witness.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Also in the wooden case is a bottle of 1896 Hennessy Very
> >> >> >>>Special
> >> >> >>>cognac. The year is not happenstance: 1896 was when Jimmy
> >> >> >>>Doolittle was born.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> There has always been a plan: When there are only two
> >> >> surviving
> >> >> >>>Raiders, they would open the bottle, at last drink from it, and
> >> >> >>>toast their comrades who preceded them in death.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> As 2013 began, there were five living Raiders; then, in
> >> >> >>>February,
> >> >> >>>Tom Griffin passed away at age 96.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> What a man he was. After bailing out of his plane over a
> >> >> >>>mountainous Chinese forest after the Tokyo raid, he became ill
> >> >> >>>with malaria, and almost died. When he recovered, he was sent to
> >> >> >>>Europe to fly more combat missions. He was shot down, captured,
> >> >> >>>and spent 22 months in a German prisoner of war camp.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The selflessness of these men, the sheer guts ... there
> >> was a
> >> >> >>>passage in the Cincinnati Enquirer obituary for Mr. Griffin that,
> >> >> >>>on the surface, had nothing to do with the war, but that
> >> >> >>>emblematizes the depth of his sense of duty and devotion:
> >> >> >>> "When his wife became ill and needed to go into a nursing
> >> >> home,
> >> >> >>>he visited her every day. He walked from his house to the nursing
> >> >> >>>home, fed his wife and at the end of the day brought home her
> >> >> >>>clothes. At night, he washed and ironed her clothes. Then he
> >> >> >>>walked them up to her room the next morning. He did that for
> >> >> >>>three years until her death in 2005."
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> So now, out of the original 80, only four Raiders remain:
> >> >> Dick
> >> >> >>>Cole (Doolittle's co-pilot on the Tokyo raid), Robert Hite,
> >> >> >>>Edward Saylor and David Thatcher. All are in their 90s. They have
> >> >> >>>decided that there are too few of them for the public reunions to
> >> >> >>>continue.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The events in Fort Walton Beach this week will mark the
> >> end.
> >> >> It
> >> >> >>>has come full circle; Florida 's nearby Eglin Field was where the
> >> >> >>>Raiders trained in secrecy for the Tokyo mission. The town is
> >> >> >>>planning to do all it can to honor the men: a six-day celebration
> >> >> >>>of their valor, including luncheons, a dinner and a parade.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Do the men ever wonder if those of us for whom they helped
> >> >> save
> >> >> >>>the country have tended to it in a way that is worthy of their
> >> >> >>>sacrifice? They don't talk about that, at least not around other
> >> >> >>>people. But if you find yourself near Fort Walton Beach this
> >> >> >>>week, and if you should encounter any of the Raiders, you might
> >> >> >>>want to offer them a word of thanks. I can tell you from
> >> >> >>>firsthand observation that they appreciate hearing that they are
> >> >> >>>remembered.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The men have decided that after this final public reunion
> >> >> they
> >> >> >>>will wait until a later date -- some time this year -- to get
> >> >> >>>together once more, informally and in absolute privacy. That is
> >> >> >>>when they will open the bottle of brandy. The years are flowing
> >> >> >>>by too swiftly now; they are not going to wait until there are
> >> >> >>>only two of them.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> They will fill the four remaining upturned goblets.
> >> >> >>> And raise them in a toast to those who are gone.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> PLEASE SEND THIS ON TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK,
> >> >> ESPECIALLY
> >> >> >>>TO THOSE WHO WERE TOO YOUNG TO KNOW ABOUT THESE GUYS. THIS SHOULD
> >> >> >>>BE READ BY EVERY KID IN GRADE AND HIGH SCHOOL SO THEY KNOW WHAT
> >> >> >>>HAPPENED.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >> >
> >> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> >> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> >> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>
> >> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >>
> >> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>
> >> DeTomaso mailing list
> >> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >
>
>
More information about the DeTomaso
mailing list