[DeTomaso] Weber carbs

[JDeRyke at aol.com]

In a message dated 7/26/13 2:39:04 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:

> I have a question for anyone who has run webers on their cleveland  
> engine.
> Has anyone run IDA'S or IDF's and does anyone know iIf Hall Panteras weber
> manifold is suitable for IDF's or IDA 's . Can anyone share their opinions
> about the ups and downs of running webers and any recommendations.
> 

Pull up a chair, Boyd- I think Halls intakes are for IDAs. What's often 
used are 48 IDA (downdraft), and occasionally, 48 DCOE (side-draft). If you 
could find them, 51 or 52 IDAs or DCOEs would be better. Wilkinson included 
dual 51 DCOEs on his Magnecharger blower systems in the '80s. 
All Webers are old carbs, as Weber of Italy stopped producing them in the 
late '80s; they switched to EFI systems. A Weber subsidiary in Spain still 
makes a few genuine carbs, I think. There are many counterfeit carbs 
available- mostly from the far east, which look very much the same as original but 
are sometimes porous & leak fuel. Jet threads in the castings are also iffy & 
strip, and real Weber tuning parts may not fit right. 
A point of advice: before spending money: find a local Weber expert to tune 
your system and talk to him FIRST. What happens even with perfect NOS 
Webers bolted on (ca $500 each plus intake manifold & air cleaners and  $250-up 
for linkage) is, either the combination gives about the same power and milea
ge as a single Holley, or it gives more power and 8 mpg. There are 5 jets and 
two air bleeds plus a venturi, an aux. venturi and an emulsion tube for 
each cylinder, all of which are tuneable. The cheapest Weber part is about $6, 
which means DIY-ers usually have a drawerful of used-once jets & other parts 
by the time they get their engine running correctly. 
A second point; brand new never-run NOS Webers have been sitting on shelves 
for maybe 40 years, so all the gaskets, o-rings and the ball bearings & 
seals in the throttles are dry and shrunk. They will often leak unless rebuilt. 
Rebuild kits are available but pricy, and there are many opportunities to 
do it wrong. Buy a Weber Manual; Haynes has a decent one. 
Air cleaners: chromed-brass ram tubes are often not included and are around 
$25 each (need 8). Plastic ones are around, too. They fit inside the four 
air cleaners, but avoid foam cleaners of any kind. Webers use 
individual-runner intakes which have powerful ram-pulsations. They are stupid, too: carbs 
meter fuel into incoming AND outgoing air pulses. This generates a cloud of 
fuel-air above the ram tubes at some rpms. Foam cleaners will soak up the 
extra fuel. Webers use no chokes- they have 'enrichment mechanisms'- so they 
are subject to backfires when cold or if running a bit lean. A small backfire 
will ignite the fuel-soaked air cleaners. ALWAYS carry a minimum of a 5-lb 
fire extinguisher when running Webers. Freon extinguishers are less messy to 
clean up than powder types. I've had two Weber fires (one destroyed an 
engine) and they are scary. 
Once you get them sorted, Weber carbs are wonderful, showy devices but the 
sorting is painful. I spent 6 months- an hour or so every day- getting a set 
running adequately, and that's not unusual. A friend spent nearly a year 
sorting his set, including drilling out all the lead balls that seal the many 
drillings in the castings, to clean each one by hand with solvent and pipe 
cleaners. Good luck- J Deryke