[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 109, Issue 22-Starters, Alternators

rcbsons1 at aol.com rcbsons1 at aol.com
Mon Jul 22 17:26:16 EDT 2013


 Way back in the old days before gear reduction starters I used
to wrap my firebird starter with a welding glove.. Autocrossing in
Larry's neighborhood-(Fresno, Ca ) at 105 and then shutting off a 60 over 472 inch
12 1/2 to 1 compression Pontiac would really head soak the starter
It worked fairly well but I later put in a by pass button and now
have a CVR (out of canada) starter - motor is now 494 inch 750 hp monster

I have used Powermaster starters with good luck- 530 hp mustang
and also have one of their Alternators on the Firebird.. good quality
and work great

Bob Benson

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-request <detomaso-request at poca.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 22, 2013 12:36 pm
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 109, Issue 22


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Daily Detomaso List Digest

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Vallelunga-walk-around (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
   2.  upgrading to high output alternator (B. Seib)
   3. Re: upgrading to high output alternator (B. Seib)
   4. Re: brass ring under thermostat  needed or not (Pantdino)
   5. Dynamat Xtreme results (Larry Finch)
   6. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results (John Taphorn)
   7. SAE or Metric? (Garth Rodericks)
   8.  SAE or Metric? (B. Seib)
   9. DB electric starter bites the dust (Boyd Casey)
  10. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results (Mike Thomas)
  11.  Dynamat Xtreme results (Larry Finch)
  12. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results (Ken Green)
  13. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Jerry Knotts)
  14. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (JDeRyke at aol.com)
  15. Dumb Techno Question follow up (cengles at cox.net)
  16. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Ed Pike)
  17. best PMGR starter, best 100 amp alternator (Boyd Casey)
  18. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Boyd Casey)
  19. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Ken Green)
  20. PMGR starters (Boyd Casey)
  21. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine (Will Kooiman)
  22. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (B Hower)
  23. Re: NPC: BMW M1 article (Larry - Ohio Time Corp)
  24. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine (Rob Dumoulin)
  25. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Ed Pike)
  26. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Julian Kift)
  27. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Boyd Casey)
  28. Re: A better way to attach firewall hatch? (Tom Shinrock)
  29. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Boyd Casey)
  30. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Brian Dudley)
  31. Re: NPC: BMW M1 article (Boyd Casey)
  32. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Boyd Casey)
  33. Re: Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine
      (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
  34. Re: DB electric starter bites the dust (Ken Green)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 15:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Vallelunga-walk-around
To: fresnofinches at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <8bb0b.70153d16.3f1d9457 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


In a message dated 7/21/13 11 46 15, MikeLDrew at aol.com writes:


> That's Isabelle De Tomaso's personal car,
> 

...and annoyingly, I don't know the VIN...   Grrrr....

Mike

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 15:12:18 -0500
From: "B. Seib" <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Subject: [DeTomaso]  upgrading to high output alternator
To: "Boyd Casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Cc: "Drew, Mike" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, DetomasoList
	<detomaso at poca.com>,	Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
Message-ID: <KFEFLEOLLPODDEBIPGDFAELAEEAA.oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I think this has all been said before, but...

The main advantage of the newer, high powered integral regulator alternators
is NOT the large amp ratings they have at high RPM. It is the large amount
of current they produce at idle and low RPM to balance the loads on the
system. The original 61A stock alternators didn't make that until 3-4000
engine RPM. At idle, they were pretty pathetic.

I've installed the following 130A Ford 3G alternator from DB electric:

AFD0032
20-234-30-1

3G Series IR/IF Alternator for Ford 130 Amp, 12 Volt, wo/ pulley

Used On:
(2000-94) Ford Mustang 3.8L
(1995-94) Ford Mustang 5.0L
(1997-94) Ford Thunderbird 3.8L
(1997-94) Mercury Cougar 3.8L

Replaces:
Ford F4PZ-10346-B

I used a C5AF-10344F 77mm single V-belt pulley. I added a new #8 or #6 wire
from the alternator output to a power stud supplying a relay bank in my
front trunk. These relays power the fans, AC, etc., etc. in my car.(like the
Mosley kit)  I also have the stock wiring from the LOAD side of the ammeter
to this power stud supplying the relays in the front trunk. So, there is
parallel wiring to the heavy loads from the larger alternator output
terminal. There is NOT any addition or change to the BATTERY side of the
ammeter, which is all stock.

I'm very happy with the performance at idle and up. It's great. It makes
about 60-70 amps at 800-1000 RPM idle, which is more than enough to balance
loads. The stock cable from the battery to the ammeter cannot handle 130A
sustained, but there is no reason to ever have more than this stock cable
can handle going into the battery.

A fused link (or breaker) in the alternator output wires would be insurance
against a large, unforeseen shot-circuit fault (shorted battery plates or
cables?) or a totally dead battery and an operator that didn't have the
common sense to let the engine idle for a few minutes before revving the
engine and driving away. You should never boost another while the engine is
running in any car anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue, and even if they
did, the amperage at idle would be limited to 60-80 amps on the 130A
version. If you want insurance against all foolish acts, you need the fused
link (or breaker).

Sorry for the long winded story.


Barry



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 15:50:06 -0500
From: "B. Seib" <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] upgrading to high output alternator
To: <SOBill at aol.com>
Cc: DetomasoList <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID: <KFEFLEOLLPODDEBIPGDFKELAEEAA.oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Hi Bill
Yes, I did connect it as a three wire (i.e charge light and remote voltage
sensing)?
I got my regulator plug and harness locally, but I see this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/230751885086

I never asked DB about it because I already had it when I ordered the
alternator from them.
Barry
  -----Original Message-----
  From: SOBill at aol.com [mailto:SOBill at aol.com]
  Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:30 PM
  To: oldwheel at shaw.ca
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] upgrading to high output alternator


  Barry,

  Did you connect it as a three wire (i.e charge light and remote voltage
sensing)?

  If yes, does DB sell the required connector?

  The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.

  Do the best you can with what you have where you are.

  Have fun today,

  sobill at aol.com



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 16:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] brass ring under thermostat  needed or not
To: charlesmccall at gmail.com, LEVITT1946 at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <8D0546C467ACF82-14FC-11E384 at Webmail-d115.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I agree with Charlie.
When the car is moving you're OK, when it is not it starts to get hot.

My car was doing exactly the same thing and replacing the stock fans with Meriah 
(sp?) fans with ball bearings (for low friction) and larger fan blades cured the 
problem. 

The post about the water pump vanes being corroded and thus not moving enough 
coolant when the engine is spinning faster could be true, too, I suppose, but 
then you'd expect that if you rev the engine with the car sitting still the temp 
will come down again.

If it's the airflow problem the car will heat up even faster, which is how I 
found my problem.

Jim Oddie


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
To: LEVITT1946 <LEVITT1946 at aol.com>; detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 21, 2013 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] brass ring under thermostat  needed or not


Bob-
What you are saying is that if you have good airflow through the radiator,
then your engine temp is just fine. 

When you slow down and depend on your fans to provide airflow, that's where
you have the problem. 

>From this armchair, you don't have a thermostat problem - it doesn't
overheat when you have airflow. You have an airflow (fan) problem. 

Either your fans aren't working at all, or they are tired and don't move
enough air. IF your fans aren't new, I'd start there. 

Flex-a-lite 220's or something like that is what I installed on my old '72
which did exactly as you mentioned, and with zero other changes I could idle
all day in the desert, et etc

Charles McCall
Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of LEVITT1946 at aol.com
Sent: domingo, 21 de julio de 2013 17:53
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] brass ring under thermostat needed or not

Hello Friends ,
 
I have been battling hi engine temps since I have owned my car.
 
On the open road the car water temp stays steady at about 180. As soon as I 
 pull off the highway , drive in stop and go, etc....the car starts to heat 
up .  About 7 to 8 minutes later the car approaches 240 +. unless the car 
is moving  and the hi temp backs down .
 
I am thinking of removing the brass ring below the thermostat . 
 
I just want to know if anyone has ever done this and does it benefit the  
engine? 
 
I always hear people here say their cars can run all day in the desert and  
the water temp hardly moves if any. I am looking to do the same. 
 
I am going to change the thermostat today to one I just received from  
Dennis Quella. I currently have a 160 thermostat and have had robert shaw
180  
(333-180) in the past and both operate exactly the same.
 
I open the fluidyne petcock and no air comes out. It is always a steady  
flow of anjtifreeze.
 
I also have a 13 lb pressure tank cap .  
 
I also have noticed that at idle my voltage at the battery 12.5 to 13v  . 
raise the idle to 2000 and the voltage moves to 13.75 to 14.
 
I changed the voltage regulator and no change. I have extra grounds and  
even grounded the voltage regulator directly.
 
I am open for any and all ideas.
 
Best,
 
Bob Levitt
    
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

 


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 17:51:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
To: detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <8D05473A7E6D5A0-F1C-122938 at webmail-m221.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

All,

As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you fail to 
fully tighten a heater hose
connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.

I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to just how 
much it would
require to cover the interior and what the added weight would be, I made 
detailed before and after records of
the weight of the Dynamat I used.

I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each sheet 
is four square feet,
and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box on eBay. I bought two boxes, 18 
sheets total.

I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and first made 
poster-board patterns
for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me to optimize waste reduction by 
trial-and-error placing
of the patterns on each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed all the 
pieces without overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior 
rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel,
front bulkhead and bottom portions of the cowl.

(Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a panel 
instead of a full edge-to-edge covering,
but its kind of like 'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering wheel. 
Not necessary, but just something I do.)  

After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of scrap 
remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used
roughly 45 square feet and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that 
one-layer install.

I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R) of the 
center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I have had it 
CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)  This took about 15 square feet and added 
another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I was forced to piece smaller 
scraps together in forming the larger patterns.

In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full interior 
with one layer and covered the
main heat-transferring panels with two layers, and spent about $300. Time spent? 
Patterns and installation must
have been about 40-60 hours. 

(Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out how to 
adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to
fit into the two Colt electric mirrors on 2511.)

I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good scissors or 
box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the long box-knife 
cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily formed to reasonable 
compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be repositioned before final 
press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber roller for the large surfaces, and 
the smooth metal handle of an old butter knife to burnish the inside and outside 
corners, nooks and crannies.

Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT by 
ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.

Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......

Larry







------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 18:18:56 -0500
From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <51EC6C60.9000903 at kingwoodcable.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks for documenting the project, to bad you can't compare before and 
after back to back.  A challenge I generally face is the amount of time 
upgrading during a resto or partial resto takes.  While I want to 
believe there is an improvement, memory doesn't always serve me well for 
measured differences.

Also, I don't recall your mishap.  I experienced a heater hose 
connection failure on a trip probably 25 years ago.  I was in NY 
visiting family.  It was quite a surprise as it was before internet 
forum days and I never anticipated it.  Spray in the face, scalded 
ankle, immediate fogging of the windshield.  I recall the rear glass had 
drops of antifreeze covering it with the exception of my silhouette.  
Fortunately was only going about 40mph and was able to pull into a 
parking lot across the street from an autoparts store. Replaced the hose 
on the spot.

How did your situation unfold?

JT
On 7/21/2013 4:51 PM, Larry Finch wrote:
> All,
>
> As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you fail to 
fully tighten a heater hose
> connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.
>
> I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to just 
how much it would
> require to cover the interior and what the added weight would be, I made 
detailed before and after records of
> the weight of the Dynamat I used.
>
> I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each 
sheet is four square feet,
> and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box on eBay. I bought two boxes, 
18 sheets total.
>
> I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and first 
made poster-board patterns
> for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me to optimize waste reduction 
by trial-and-error placing
> of the patterns on each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed all 
the pieces without overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
> I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior 
rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel,
> front bulkhead and bottom portions of the cowl.
>
> (Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a 
panel instead of a full edge-to-edge covering,
> but its kind of like 'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering wheel. 
Not necessary, but just something I do.)
>
> After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of scrap 
remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used
> roughly 45 square feet and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that 
one-layer install.
>
> I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R) of the 
center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I have had it 
CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)  This took about 15 square feet and added 
another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I was forced to piece smaller 
scraps together in forming the larger patterns.
>
> In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full interior 
with one layer and covered the
> main heat-transferring panels with two layers, and spent about $300. Time 
spent? Patterns and installation must
> have been about 40-60 hours.
>
> (Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out how to 
adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to
> fit into the two Colt electric mirrors on 2511.)
>
> I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good scissors or 
box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the long box-knife 
cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily formed to reasonable 
compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be repositioned before final 
press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber roller for the large surfaces, and 
the smooth metal handle of an old butter knife to burnish the inside and outside 
corners, nooks and crannies.
>
> Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT by 
ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.
>
> Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 16:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Garth Rodericks <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] SAE or Metric?
To: Rich Boschert <theemonkey at yahoo.com>, Bob Benson
	<bob at rcbensonsons.com>,	Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Brent Stewart
	<bjbstewart at yahoo.com>,	Garry Choate <garryc15 at comcast.net>,	DeTomaso
	Mail List <detomaso at poca.com>, 	"fresnofinches at aol.com"
	<fresnofinches at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<1374448825.11237.YahooMailNeo at web122104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Are the holes/nuts on the little panel that mounts the coil, starter solenoid, 
and ballast resistor on the firewall SAE or metric?

I'm ready to mount up the coil and starter solenoid and and need to clean up the 
holes with a tap since the threads have some powder coating in them, and I'd 
like to use the right tap.

Thanks!
Garth
#4033 - The Banzai Runner


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 18:48:18 -0500
From: "B. Seib" <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Subject: [DeTomaso]  SAE or Metric?
To: "Rodericks, Garth" <garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Cc: DetomasoList <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID: <KFEFLEOLLPODDEBIPGDFGELCEEAA.oldwheel at shaw.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Those are M6 x 1 metric Garth.
Barry

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Are the holes/nuts on the little panel that mounts the coil, starter
solenoid, and ballast resistor on the firewall SAE or metric?

I'm ready to mount up the coil and starter solenoid and and need to clean up
the holes with a tap since the threads have some powder coating in them, and
I'd like to use the right tap.

Thanks!
Garth
#4033 - The Banzai Runner


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:25:26 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=ctgH5AM20_Mo4yAggu2FC5vekSQiouix7bLiD5H730-1Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second since
may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my house.
The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due to my
alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB for
several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go with a
US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
solenoids
Like this?
Boyd


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 17:29:52 -0700
From: "Mike Thomas" <mbefthomas at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
To: "'Larry Finch'" <fresnofinches at aol.com>,	<detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID: <000401ce8672$9559d810$c00d8830$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Any thoughts to Dynamat in the ceiling?  I know, that would have involved
removing the headliner, but I wonder how much noise and/or heat (sun)
reduction there would be.  Your info is timely as I will be doing the same
thing as part of my interior redux this year.  Thanks Larry.

Mike Thomas
VP, POCA
VP, Panteras Northwest
Yellow '74 #6328



-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Larry Finch
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:52 PM
To: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results

All,

As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you fail
to fully tighten a heater hose connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.

I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to just
how much it would require to cover the interior and what the added weight
would be, I made detailed before and after records of the weight of the
Dynamat I used.

I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each
sheet is four square feet, and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box
on eBay. I bought two boxes, 18 sheets total.

I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and first
made poster-board patterns for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me
to optimize waste reduction by trial-and-error placing of the patterns on
each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed all the pieces without
overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior
rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel, front bulkhead and
bottom portions of the cowl.

(Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a
panel instead of a full edge-to-edge covering, but its kind of like
'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering wheel. Not necessary, but
just something I do.)  

After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of
scrap remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used roughly 45 square feet
and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that one-layer install.

I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R) of
the center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I have had
it CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)  This took about 15 square feet and
added another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I was forced to
piece smaller scraps together in forming the larger patterns.

In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full
interior with one layer and covered the main heat-transferring panels with
two layers, and spent about $300. Time spent? Patterns and installation must
have been about 40-60 hours. 

(Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out how
to adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to fit into the two Colt
electric mirrors on 2511.)

I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good scissors
or box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the long
box-knife cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily formed to
reasonable compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be repositioned
before final press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber roller for the
large surfaces, and the smooth metal handle of an old butter knife to
burnish the inside and outside corners, nooks and crannies.

Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT by
ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.

Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......

Larry





_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:54:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso]  Dynamat Xtreme results
To: detomaso at poca.com, mbefthomas at comcast.net
Message-ID: <8D0548D28D8890F-F1C-123F6A at webmail-m221.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Mike,

See this thread at the PIBB

http://tinyurl.com/headliner-dynamat

Larry


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 18:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
To: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>,	"detomaso at poca.com"
	<detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<1374456711.3038.YahooMailNeo at web162505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Amazon has a good price on this stuff, and orders over $25 ship free:
?
Dynamat 10455 18" x 32" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with Xtreme 
Bulk Pack, (Set of 9) 
?
$139 shipped.
?
Ken


________________________________
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
To: detomaso at poca.com 
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results


All,

As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you fail to 
fully tighten a heater hose
connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.

I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to just how 
much it would
require to cover the interior and what the added weight would be, I made 
detailed before and after records of
the weight of the Dynamat I used.

I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each sheet 
is four square feet,
and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box on eBay. I bought two boxes, 18 
sheets total.

I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and first made 
poster-board patterns
for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me to optimize waste reduction by 
trial-and-error placing
of the patterns on each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed all the 
pieces without overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior 
rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel,
front bulkhead and bottom portions of the cowl.

(Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a panel 
instead of a full edge-to-edge covering,
but its kind of like 'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering wheel. 
Not necessary, but just something I do.)? 

After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of scrap 
remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used
roughly 45 square feet and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that 
one-layer install.

I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R) of the 
center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I have had it 
CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)? This took about 15 square feet and added 
another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I was forced to piece smaller 
scraps together in forming the larger patterns.

In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full interior 
with one layer and covered the
main heat-transferring panels with two layers, and spent about $300. Time spent? 
Patterns and installation must
have been about 40-60 hours. 

(Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out how to 
adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to
fit into the two Colt electric mirrors on 2511.)

I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good scissors or 
box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the long box-knife 
cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily formed to reasonable 
compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be repositioned before final 
press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber roller for the large surfaces, and 
the smooth metal handle of an old butter knife to burnish the inside and outside 
corners, nooks and crannies.

Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT by 
ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.

Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......

Larry





_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2013 20:45:01 -0500
From: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <51EC8E9D.7020707 at galstar.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Boyd,

I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a 
battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted 
less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with 
the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and 
they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and 
explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to 
pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They 
said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they 
said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the 
starter after I returned the defective one.

You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay 
for and almost never get more.
jerry




On 7/21/2013 7:25 PM, Boyd Casey wrote:
> I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second since
> may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my house.
> The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due to my
> alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
> optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB for
> several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go with a
> US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
> solenoids
> Like this?
> Boyd
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: JDeRyke at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: boyd411 at gmail.com, detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <8a41a.21e78872.3f1e3585 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:

> Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> 
A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong with 
it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign made 
solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic block. 
Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily, 
which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens enough for 
the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid 
contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed' a couple 
of 
cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in 
nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's any 
evidence 
the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer touch. 
Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave differently 
is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:18:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: cengles at cox.net
Subject: [DeTomaso] Dumb Techno Question follow up
To: detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <d831d4.375ed.1400650e360.Webtop.0 at cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed


Dear Guys,

          The cut off wheel that was expected to make short work of the 
slot cutting in the bolt was excellent at rounding it off.   We fell 
back on the ol' hacksaw, which worked well.  The screwdriver finished 
off the recalcitrant bolt and the crippled seat was finally freed.   We 
swapped seats and removed the broken mechanism for later repairs.  My 
thanks to all for the excellent forum help.   Plan B was not nearly as 
good as the suggestions of cooler, more objective heads.

                        Warmest regards, Chuck Engles





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:09:10 -0400
From: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
	<detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CADs_TP19ryNqMpJHoWZQGD=LvByJkhHJeaVmeovO7tp1V5aWAg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Boyd,

The reason I asked is that when my car was new to me and pretty much stock
I had the typical hot start problem. On a warm day run the car for 10
minutes like up to the gas station shut it down to fill it. Upon restart it
would just click . If i let it sit for 10 min it started. So I upgraded to
a hi torque starter ( not a DB Electric ) and fixed the issue. 6 years
later after a minor engine refresh I had some starting issues. Ended up
replacing the hi torque starter with another one, same model same brand.
Seemed to solve my starter issues until the weather got hot (over 85
degrees) . On a hot day with the engine up to operation temperature if i
shut it down and try to restart , I have a 50/50 chance of it not starting
- no click just nothing but you can hear the rest of the electrical
components that are on straining. If I let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes it
will start fine. This does not happen with the air temps under 85. I think
that if the trunk tub  is out it will start. I only had the opportunity to
try with the tub out once. I was planning on changing to a db electric
starter based on your earlier posts about having such good luck the
original figuring the db electric unit is better. Now I think Jack is right
the heat get s to the solenoid. I also suspect that the newer starters have
a different solenoid material than the older ones.

It would be interesting to see if it starts now that it is cold. I have no
clue what direction I am going to take next. I thought I would pass this
along to see if it helps you at all. Sorry I don't have a solution yet.

Ed...




On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ed,
> The temp was over 90 and although the car wasn't running hot ( according
> to the thermostat) it was at operating temperature (between 180 F and 200
> F) . I had been driving the car for around 45 minutes and as I have
> mentioned I have been having a stall on hard braking situation and a
> problem with my 65 amp alternator ( which I have planned to remedy with a
> 95 amp alternator that has not arrived yet,) I was on by block approaching
> my home ( last stop sign around 100 yards from my home when the car stalled
> at the stop sign) When I attempted to restart the engine the starter just
> clicked so I assumed it was an electrical problem. I first tried starting
> it with a jump box and when that failed I removed the battery and too it
> home and placed it on the charger. That failed to illicit a cranking
> starter (still just a click one turn of the key , one click from the
> solenoid. I got two of my buddies (one guy my age and his 19 year old sun
> who is a body builder and built like a Gorilla. The three of us pushed the
> car to a slow trot and I jumped in and put it in 2nd gear and it fired
> right up.
> Boyd
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Boyd,
>>
>> Was the air temperature 85 degrees or above and was the car hot?
>>
>> Ed...
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second since
>>> may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my
>>> house.
>>> The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due to
>>> my
>>> alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
>>> optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB
>>> for
>>> several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go
>>> with a
>>> US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
>>> solenoids
>>> Like this?
>>> Boyd
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed...
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Thanks,

Ed...


------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:17:27 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] best PMGR starter, best 100 amp alternator
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=ctjfrQpxS0PXFDzCXUxT9Qij9D4wM1-3J3=n3fYnOhRZg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear Panteraians,
If any of you would care to share your opinions and expieriences concerning
the best choice for a PMGR starter and the best choice or route for an
upgraded 3 wire alternator that will output 95 to 125 amps and output at
least 80 amps at low (1500) rpm. I would be very grateful. In the past I
had been very pleased with DB Electrical PMGR starters . The first PMGR
starter I purchased lasted for more then 4 years, the last two I purchased
lasted  (#2 almost 2 months), ( #3 lasted 6 days) so I am withdrawing my
endorsement of their products. Although their price is cheap and they have
a one year warranty that they do honor , since I don't own a lift I had to
pay to have them installed. So the R&R of these two starters cost me an
additional $300.00 and I have still not resolved my starter issue.
Boyd


------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:27:16 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=ctTQNDJt_CakWA-feL1D6uwALZ6898_UacPmsC26Kk_=w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear Ed,
Well I let my car sit overnight and made sure the Optima battery (which is
only a few months old was fully charged and still all i got when I turned
the ignition key was a few clicks.  I don't know if you know Ken Green but
he is a long time POCA Member and list subscriber and a respected Patent
Attorney . He has a client (and freind) that owns IMI HI Torque Performance
Products. Their products are manufactured in the USA with American parts.
According to Ken the owner is obsessed with quality. I am going to give
them a try for my next starter.I will let you know how it goes.
Boyd


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com> wrote:

> Boyd,
>
> The reason I asked is that when my car was new to me and pretty much stock
> I had the typical hot start problem. On a warm day run the car for 10
> minutes like up to the gas station shut it down to fill it. Upon restart it
> would just click . If i let it sit for 10 min it started. So I upgraded to
> a hi torque starter ( not a DB Electric ) and fixed the issue. 6 years
> later after a minor engine refresh I had some starting issues. Ended up
> replacing the hi torque starter with another one, same model same brand.
> Seemed to solve my starter issues until the weather got hot (over 85
> degrees) . On a hot day with the engine up to operation temperature if i
> shut it down and try to restart , I have a 50/50 chance of it not starting
> - no click just nothing but you can hear the rest of the electrical
> components that are on straining. If I let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes it
> will start fine. This does not happen with the air temps under 85. I think
> that if the trunk tub  is out it will start. I only had the opportunity to
> try with the tub out once. I was planning on changing to a db electric
> starter based on your earlier posts about having such good luck the
> original figuring the db electric unit is better. Now I think Jack is right
> the heat get s to the solenoid. I also suspect that the newer starters have
> a different solenoid material than the older ones.
>
> It would be interesting to see if it starts now that it is cold. I have no
> clue what direction I am going to take next. I thought I would pass this
> along to see if it helps you at all. Sorry I don't have a solution yet.
>
> Ed...
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>> The temp was over 90 and although the car wasn't running hot ( according
>> to the thermostat) it was at operating temperature (between 180 F and 200
>> F) . I had been driving the car for around 45 minutes and as I have
>> mentioned I have been having a stall on hard braking situation and a
>> problem with my 65 amp alternator ( which I have planned to remedy with a
>> 95 amp alternator that has not arrived yet,) I was on by block approaching
>> my home ( last stop sign around 100 yards from my home when the car stalled
>> at the stop sign) When I attempted to restart the engine the starter just
>> clicked so I assumed it was an electrical problem. I first tried starting
>> it with a jump box and when that failed I removed the battery and too it
>> home and placed it on the charger. That failed to illicit a cranking
>> starter (still just a click one turn of the key , one click from the
>> solenoid. I got two of my buddies (one guy my age and his 19 year old sun
>> who is a body builder and built like a Gorilla. The three of us pushed the
>> car to a slow trot and I jumped in and put it in 2nd gear and it fired
>> right up.
>>  Boyd
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Boyd,
>>>
>>> Was the air temperature 85 degrees or above and was the car hot?
>>>
>>> Ed...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second
>>>> since
>>>> may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my
>>>> house.
>>>> The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due
>>>> to my
>>>> alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
>>>> optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB
>>>> for
>>>> several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go
>>>> with a
>>>> US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
>>>> solenoids
>>>> Like this?
>>>> Boyd
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Ed...
>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:34:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>,
	"detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<1374507242.23523.YahooMailNeo at web162502.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ed,
?
There are a number of high torque starters on the market, and there is one gear 
reduction?starter sold under the?HI TORQUE trademark by IMI Performance 
Products.? Did you have the IMI starter or another brand?
?
Ken


________________________________
From: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>; "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust


Boyd,

The reason I asked is that when my car was new to me and pretty much stock
I had the typical hot start problem. On a warm day run the car for 10
minutes like up to the gas station shut it down to fill it. Upon restart it
would just click . If i let it sit for 10 min it started. So I upgraded to
a hi torque starter ( not a DB Electric ) and fixed the issue. 6 years
later after a minor engine refresh I had some starting issues. Ended up
replacing the hi torque starter with another one, same model same brand.
Seemed to solve my starter issues until the weather got hot (over 85
degrees) . On a hot day with the engine up to operation temperature if i
shut it down and try to restart , I have a 50/50 chance of it not starting
- no click just nothing but you can hear the rest of the electrical
components that are on straining. If I let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes it
will start fine. This does not happen with the air temps under 85. I think
that if the trunk tub? is out it will start. I only had the opportunity to
try with the tub out once. I was planning on changing to a db electric
starter based on your earlier posts about having such good luck the
original figuring the db electric unit is better. Now I think Jack is right
the heat get s to the solenoid. I also suspect that the newer starters have
a different solenoid material than the older ones.

It would be interesting to see if it starts now that it is cold. I have no
clue what direction I am going to take next. I thought I would pass this
along to see if it helps you at all. Sorry I don't have a solution yet.

Ed...




On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ed,
> The temp was over 90 and although the car wasn't running hot ( according
> to the thermostat) it was at operating temperature (between 180 F and 200
> F) . I had been driving the car for around 45 minutes and as I have
> mentioned I have been having a stall on hard braking situation and a
> problem with my 65 amp alternator ( which I have planned to remedy with a
> 95 amp alternator that has not arrived yet,) I was on by block approaching
> my home ( last stop sign around 100 yards from my home when the car stalled
> at the stop sign) When I attempted to restart the engine the starter just
> clicked so I assumed it was an electrical problem. I first tried starting
> it with a jump box and when that failed I removed the battery and too it
> home and placed it on the charger. That failed to illicit a cranking
> starter (still just a click one turn of the key , one click from the
> solenoid. I got two of my buddies (one guy my age and his 19 year old sun
> who is a body builder and built like a Gorilla. The three of us pushed the
> car to a slow trot and I jumped in and put it in 2nd gear and it fired
> right up.
> Boyd
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Boyd,
>>
>> Was the air temperature 85 degrees or above and was the car hot?
>>
>> Ed...
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>? I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second since
>>> may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my
>>> house.
>>> The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due to
>>> my
>>> alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
>>> optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB
>>> for
>>> several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go
>>> with a
>>> US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
>>> solenoids
>>> Like this?
>>> Boyd
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed...
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Thanks,

Ed...
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:38:52 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] PMGR starters
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=cvtjd_kt27Tn0Py5G-bBU5UYLsKXVPnRoORwKNGN1_y3g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

TO ALL WHO MAY HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING MY PMGR STARTER OR ALTERNATOR POSTS


I may have listed the company Ken Green recommended to me as IMF,


*THE CORRECT NAME IS *
*IMI PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS INC.*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*           Link:   Hi Torque Products
*
*
*
*Thanks for your patience and understanding,*
*
*
Boyd


------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:40:30 -0400
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Larry Finch
	<fresnofinches at aol.com>,	"detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID: <CE12A046.4CC74%will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Is this the best stuff to muffle electric motor whine?

I'm trying to quiet down aquarium pumps.

--
Will





On 7/21/13 9:31 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Amazon has a good price on this stuff, and orders over $25 ship free:
> 
>Dynamat 10455 18" x 32" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with
>Xtreme Bulk Pack, (Set of 9)
> 
>$139 shipped.
> 
>Ken
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
>To: detomaso at poca.com
>Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:51 PM
>Subject: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
>
>
>All,
>
>As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you
>fail to fully tighten a heater hose
>connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.
>
>I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to
>just how much it would
>require to cover the interior and what the added weight would be, I made
>detailed before and after records of
>the weight of the Dynamat I used.
>
>I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each
>sheet is four square feet,
>and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box on eBay. I bought two
>boxes, 18 sheets total.
>
>I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and
>first made poster-board patterns
>for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me to optimize waste
>reduction by trial-and-error placing
>of the patterns on each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed
>all the pieces without overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
>I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior
>rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel,
>front bulkhead and bottom portions of the cowl.
>
>(Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a
>panel instead of a full edge-to-edge covering,
>but its kind of like 'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering
>wheel. Not necessary, but just something I do.)
>
>After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of
>scrap remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used
>roughly 45 square feet and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that
>one-layer install.
>
>I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R)
>of the center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I
>have had it CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)  This took about 15
>square feet and added another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I
>was forced to piece smaller scraps together in forming the larger
>patterns.
>
>In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full
>interior with one layer and covered the
>main heat-transferring panels with two layers, and spent about $300. Time
>spent? Patterns and installation must
>have been about 40-60 hours.
>
>(Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out
>how to adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to
>fit into the two Colt electric mirrors on 2511.)
>
>I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good
>scissors or box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the
>long box-knife cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily
>formed to reasonable compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be
>repositioned before final press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber
>roller for the large surfaces, and the smooth metal handle of an old
>butter knife to burnish the inside and outside corners, nooks and
>crannies.
>
>Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT
>by ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.
>
>Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......
>
>Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>_______________________________________________
>
>Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
>DeTomaso mailing list
>DeTomaso at poca.com
>http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso




------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: B Hower <b.hower3400 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
	<detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<1374507622.96828.YahooMailNeo at web121102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The DB starter I put on my F150 failed in just a few days. I found?DB's coil 
ground connection bad at the at the searter.


Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )


________________________________
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com> 
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:25 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust


I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second since
may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my house.
The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due to my
alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB for
several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go with a
US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
solenoids
Like this?
Boyd
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:54:21 -0400
From: "Larry - Ohio Time Corp" <larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: BMW M1 article
To: "'Boyd Casey'" <boyd411 at gmail.com>,	"'Rob Dumoulin'"
	<rob at dumoulins.net>
Cc: detomaso at poca.com, michael at michaelshortt.com
Message-ID: <20130722155159.034CA834315 at mail.poca.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

<<I should know I married one when I was 40>>

And I did it at 52.... 


Larry (know better now) - Cleveland


-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Boyd Casey
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 11:21 PM
To: Rob Dumoulin
Cc: detomaso at poca.com; michael at michaelshortt.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: BMW M1 article

That's also the worst thing! I should know I married one when I was 40.
Boyd

On Friday, July 19, 2013, Rob Dumoulin wrote:

> You know the best thing about going out with 24 year old women? No 
> matter how old you get, they are still 24.
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2013, michael at michaelshortt.com <javascript:;> wrote:
>
> > You know what I hate,
> >
> > 24 year old, size 4 women who are vapid, can't carry on a 
> > conversation,
> get
> > drunk too easily and like to involve their friends in their naughty 
> > shenanigans,
> >
> >
> > Some people will complain about anything,
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Corey Price 
> > <coreyjprice at gmail.com<javascript:;>
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I know it has been discussed, but I was struck by the similarities
> > between
> > > the M1 and the Pantera.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/1212_1980_bmw_m1_classic_dr
> ive/viewall.html
> > >
> > > They talk about the lack of headroom for taller drivers, offset 
> > > pedals, gear layout, etc.
> > >
> > > Corey
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;> 
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael L. Shortt
> > Savannah, Georgia
> > www.michaelshortt.com
> > michael at michaelshortt.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;> 912-232-9390
> >
> >
> > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> > privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that
> you
> > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
>
>
> --
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
_______________________________________________

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DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
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------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:04:45 -0400
From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine
To: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Larry Finch
	<fresnofinches at aol.com>,	"detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CAEr4y_uVZqnwu_LGcTiMhrPP5ih9Q2_ftF301LyVb2ZdTf3cZg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Danger, Will. It also acts as an insulator and will trap heat.

On Monday, July 22, 2013, Will Kooiman wrote:

> Is this the best stuff to muffle electric motor whine?
>
> I'm trying to quiet down aquarium pumps.
>
> --
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/21/13 9:31 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> >Amazon has a good price on this stuff, and orders over $25 ship free:
> >
> >Dynamat 10455 18" x 32" x 0.067" Thick Self-Adhesive Sound Deadener with
> >Xtreme Bulk Pack, (Set of 9)
> >
> >$139 shipped.
> >
> >Ken
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com <javascript:;>>
> >To: detomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> >Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:51 PM
> >Subject: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results
> >
> >
> >All,
> >
> >As you may recall I learned a hard lesson as to what happens when you
> >fail to fully tighten a heater hose
> >connection after doing an evaporator upgrade.
> >
> >I have just finished the installation of Dynamat on 2511. Curious as to
> >just how much it would
> >require to cover the interior and what the added weight would be, I made
> >detailed before and after records of
> >the weight of the Dynamat I used.
> >
> >I used Dynamat Xtreme in the bulk packs of 9 sheets, each 18" x 32". Each
> >sheet is four square feet,
> >and the pack of nine sheets is about $150 a box on eBay. I bought two
> >boxes, 18 sheets total.
> >
> >I exhibited my typical over-thinking and over-executed technique and
> >first made poster-board patterns
> >for all the various panel shapes. This allowed me to optimize waste
> >reduction by trial-and-error placing
> >of the patterns on each sheet prior to actual cutting. I also installed
> >all the pieces without overlap, instead placing them edge-to-edge.
> >I covered ALL the interior: rear firewall and hatch, full floor, interior
> >rockers, wheel houses, all sides of the center tunnel,
> >front bulkhead and bottom portions of the cowl.
> >
> >(Yes, I know Dynamat results are pretty good when just covering most of a
> >panel instead of a full edge-to-edge covering,
> >but its kind of like 'clocking' the nine screws on the LeCarra steering
> >wheel. Not necessary, but just something I do.)
> >
> >After this one-layer install, I had just three full sheets and a lot of
> >scrap remaining. By weight, I've calculated I used
> >roughly 45 square feet and added about 16.5 pounds of material for that
> >one-layer install.
> >
> >I then added a second layer to the rear firewall and all sides (F to R)
> >of the center tunnel. (I did not add a second layer to the hatch as I
> >have had it CermaKromed at CAPS here in Fresno.)  This took about 15
> >square feet and added another 5.5 pounds. For most of the second layer, I
> >was forced to piece smaller scraps together in forming the larger
> >patterns.
> >
> >In summary, I added only about 22 pounds of weight, covered the full
> >interior with one layer and covered the
> >main heat-transferring panels with two layers, and spent about $300. Time
> >spent? Patterns and installation must
> >have been about 40-60 hours.
> >
> >(Think that is excessive? Don't ask how many hours I spent figuring out
> >how to adapt and cut a set of Muth signal mirrors to
> >fit into the two Colt electric mirrors on 2511.)
> >
> >I found the Dynamat very easy to work with. Cuts easily with good
> >scissors or box knife; a good-sized scrap of plywood serves well for the
> >long box-knife cuts. Foil covering is VERY durable, flexible and easily
> >formed to reasonable compound curves. When carefully handled, it can be
> >repositioned before final press-down installation. I used a 2" rubber
> >roller for the large surfaces, and the smooth metal handle of an old
> >butter knife to burnish the inside and outside corners, nooks and
> >crannies.
> >
> >Next up is the aluminized adhesive-backed radiant heat barrier (COOL IT
> >by ThermoTec) on the firewall, hatch and center tunnel.
> >
> >Now if I can just get the A/C reliably working......
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> >DeTomaso mailing list
> >DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> >DeTomaso mailing list
> >DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> >http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile


------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:40 -0400
From: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CADs_TP3WW58_aL+_5wUpVJUmwS-MCQ5c7LbgCLwppwzAPfz8fw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ken,

I have the brand at home and will let you know mid afternoon. I doubt it is
IMI Performance Products brand.

Thanks,

Ed...


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ed,
>
> There are a number of high torque starters on the market, and there is one
> gear reduction starter sold under the HI TORQUE trademark by IMI
> Performance Products.  Did you have the IMI starter or another brand?
>
> Ken
>
>   *From:* Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
> *To:* Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>; "detomaso at poca.com" <
> detomaso at poca.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 8:09 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
>
> Boyd,
>
> The reason I asked is that when my car was new to me and pretty much stock
> I had the typical hot start problem. On a warm day run the car for 10
> minutes like up to the gas station shut it down to fill it. Upon restart it
> would just click . If i let it sit for 10 min it started. So I upgraded to
> a hi torque starter ( not a DB Electric ) and fixed the issue. 6 years
> later after a minor engine refresh I had some starting issues. Ended up
> replacing the hi torque starter with another one, same model same brand.
> Seemed to solve my starter issues until the weather got hot (over 85
> degrees) . On a hot day with the engine up to operation temperature if i
> shut it down and try to restart , I have a 50/50 chance of it not starting
> - no click just nothing but you can hear the rest of the electrical
> components that are on straining. If I let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes it
> will start fine. This does not happen with the air temps under 85. I think
> that if the trunk tub  is out it will start. I only had the opportunity to
> try with the tub out once. I was planning on changing to a db electric
> starter based on your earlier posts about having such good luck the
> original figuring the db electric unit is better. Now I think Jack is right
> the heat get s to the solenoid. I also suspect that the newer starters have
> a different solenoid material than the older ones.
>
> It would be interesting to see if it starts now that it is cold. I have no
> clue what direction I am going to take next. I thought I would pass this
> along to see if it helps you at all. Sorry I don't have a solution yet.
>
> Ed...
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ed,
> > The temp was over 90 and although the car wasn't running hot ( according
> > to the thermostat) it was at operating temperature (between 180 F and 200
> > F) . I had been driving the car for around 45 minutes and as I have
> > mentioned I have been having a stall on hard braking situation and a
> > problem with my 65 amp alternator ( which I have planned to remedy with a
> > 95 amp alternator that has not arrived yet,) I was on by block
> approaching
> > my home ( last stop sign around 100 yards from my home when the car
> stalled
> > at the stop sign) When I attempted to restart the engine the starter just
> > clicked so I assumed it was an electrical problem. I first tried starting
> > it with a jump box and when that failed I removed the battery and too it
> > home and placed it on the charger. That failed to illicit a cranking
> > starter (still just a click one turn of the key , one click from the
> > solenoid. I got two of my buddies (one guy my age and his 19 year old sun
> > who is a body builder and built like a Gorilla. The three of us pushed
> the
> > car to a slow trot and I jumped in and put it in 2nd gear and it fired
> > right up.
> > Boyd
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Boyd,
> >>
> >> Was the air temperature 85 degrees or above and was the car hot?
> >>
> >> Ed...
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>  I can hardly believe it but my newest DB Electric starter ( second
> since
> >>> may) bit the dust after only six days. Luckily I was in front of my
> >>> house.
> >>> The starter just clicks. At first I thought it was a dead battery due
> to
> >>> my
> >>> alternator issues but after trying a jump box and then charging my new
> >>> optima red top overnight there was no change. I had been happy with DB
> >>> for
> >>> several years but this is to much of a coincidence. I am going to go
> >>> with a
> >>> US made starter. Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out
> >>> solenoids
> >>> Like this?
> >>> Boyd
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>
> >>> DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> DeTomaso at poca.com
> >>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ed...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Ed...
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>
>


-- 
Thanks,

Ed...


------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 09:38:05 -0700
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>, "boyd411 at gmail.com"
	<boyd411 at gmail.com>, De	Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID: <BAY173-W39C85DA333A0AE3A99C1B9956E0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter being the 
gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current draw.

 

I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite widely 
used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from a different 
supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has changed to cause the 
first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service life) and subsequent 
replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality, higher dollar starter may overcome 
your problem, but will you actually tackle the route cause of the problem? If 
you don't get to the route cause then any solution is only temporary.

 

Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground continuity 
etc.?

 

Julian
 

> From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> 
> In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> 
> > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> > 
> A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong with 
> it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign made 
> solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic block. 

> Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily, 
> which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens enough for 
> the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid 
> contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed' a 
couple of 
> cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in 
> nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's any 
evidence 
> the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer touch. 
> Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave differently 
> is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
 		 	   		  

------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:19:47 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=csKryzEe4vOD9OtdFvkfNcaS-eDEem0b10cLeZy3wgOYg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Julian,
I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read about
his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly his
experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
Boyd


Jerry Knotts
9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
to detomaso
Boyd,

I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
starter after I returned the defective one.

You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
for and almost never get more.
jerry


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:

> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter being
> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current draw.
>
> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality, higher
> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle the
> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
> solution is only temporary.
>
> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
> continuity etc.?
>
> Julian
>
> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> >
> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> > >
> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
> with
> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign made
> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic
> block.
> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
> enough for
> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed' a
> couple of
> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
> any evidence
> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
> touch.
> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
> differently
> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>


------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:20:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A better way to attach firewall hatch?
To: detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <8D05516DCA504FC-1B28-336C at webmail-m130.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


 When I got 5186 26 years ago I replaced the bolts/nuts that fasten the firewall 
cover.   I can't remember why I did it but there must have been some issues with 
the hardware that was originally there.  I went to the hardware store and bought 
some square nuts and some matching bolts.  I used a screw driver to open up the 
metal "cages" that held in the nuts in the firewall and inserted the new square 
nuts and reformed the metal to close the "cages".  The square nuts fit pretty 
good in the cages and floated enough so that you could line the nuts up with the 
holes in the hatch cover.  I usually can get the nuts aligned by just moving the 
bolt around by hand but sometimes I have to use a phillips screwdrive to align 
the nut with the hole.  The only issue I had is that the 1/2 inch bolt head got 
a little too close to the turned up lip of the edge of the hatch cover and made 
for a tight fit when I put a socket on the bolt.   I just bent the lip out next 
to the hole with some pliers
  to give more room between the bolt head and the lip to let me get my socket 
on.   Not an elegant solution but pretty simple.

Tom 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 21, 2013 1:27 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] A better way to attach firewall hatch?


All,

I've always found the little M5 metric hex head bolts used to attach the metal 
firewall hatch to be less than user-friendly.

I'm thinking of using Allen head cap screws instead of the stock hex head bolts, 

and installing them from the engine side through the captured nuts in the 
firewall surround. Then you would be mounting the hatch to a group of M5 studs. 
Instead of small, easily dropped, and difficult to handle M5 nuts, I would be 
using M5 coupler nuts which are about an inch long.

Now some of you will want to point out the restriction of the two small locating 

tabs on the bottom of the hatch which index into their respective slots. I would 

just cut them off as I think that bottom edge of the steel hatch is strong 
enough to maintain a good seal on the quarter-inch closed-cell foam I'm using. 
If not, you could always add some Nutserts on the bottom flange and add two more 

studs to hold everything tight. 

So, has anyone done anything similar to this on the hatch?

Any comments or improvements on my idea of studs and coupler nuts? 

Larry
_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

 


------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:42:50 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=cseRvSoXB9oX9U2jR0aU-D=jUKgLLYkATqtD44jmi_4Cg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

For those who missed my earlier correction the company I am currently
researching per Ken Green's reccomendation is

" IMI Performance products Inc. Hi Torque ?" I had  mistakenly referred to
it as* IMF*

Be forewarned that there are numerous vendors on Ebay and else where that
are offering for sale products listed as IMI Performance Products "Hi
Torque?" that are bootleg , counterfeit, fake or what ever you care to call
them . But they are not the real deal!
If it looks to good to be true ....IT IS!

Boyd


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Julian,
> I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read about
> his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly his
> experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
> Boyd
>
>
>  Jerry Knotts
>  9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
>     to detomaso
>  Boyd,
>
> I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
> battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
> less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
> the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
> they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
> explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
> pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
> said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
> said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
> starter after I returned the defective one.
>
> You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
> for and almost never get more.
> jerry
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter being
>> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current draw.
>>
>> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
>> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
>> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
>> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
>> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality, higher
>> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle the
>> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
>> solution is only temporary.
>>
>> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
>> continuity etc.?
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
>> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
>> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
>> >
>> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>> >
>> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
>> > >
>> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
>> with
>> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign
>> made
>> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic
>> block.
>> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
>> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
>> enough for
>> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
>> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
>> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed'
>> a couple of
>> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
>> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
>> any evidence
>> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
>> touch.
>> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
>> differently
>> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >
>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:56:16 -0400
From: Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<CAKPc3=deD-q35h_Bh_KBq690jozzFU4XTOZY__=kLq+GYGkdNQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Or you could avoid the Chinese stuff for not much more.
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/starter_home.html#comparison
Their customer service was good for me.
They bought out a starter that was smaller and more powerful than the one I
had bought from them.
I returned mine and just paid the difference.


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> For those who missed my earlier correction the company I am currently
> researching per Ken Green's reccomendation is
>
> " IMI Performance products Inc. Hi Torque ?" I had  mistakenly referred to
> it as* IMF*
>
> Be forewarned that there are numerous vendors on Ebay and else where that
> are offering for sale products listed as IMI Performance Products "Hi
> Torque?" that are bootleg , counterfeit, fake or what ever you care to call
> them . But they are not the real deal!
> If it looks to good to be true ....IT IS!
>
> Boyd
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Julian,
> > I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read
> about
> > his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly
> his
> > experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
> > Boyd
> >
> >
> >  Jerry Knotts
> >  9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
> >     to detomaso
> >  Boyd,
> >
> > I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
> > battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
> > less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
> > the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
> > they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
> > explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
> > pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
> > said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
> > said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
> > starter after I returned the defective one.
> >
> > You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
> > for and almost never get more.
> > jerry
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter
> being
> >> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current
> draw.
> >>
> >> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
> >> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
> >> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
> >> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
> >> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality,
> higher
> >> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle
> the
> >> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
> >> solution is only temporary.
> >>
> >> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
> >> continuity etc.?
> >>
> >> Julian
> >>
> >> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> >> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> >> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> >>
> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> >> >
> >> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> >> > >
> >> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
> >> with
> >> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign
> >> made
> >> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a
> thermoplastic
> >> block.
> >> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
> >> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
> >> enough for
> >> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> >> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
> >> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed'
> >> a couple of
> >> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
> >> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
> >> any evidence
> >> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
> >> touch.
> >> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
> >> differently
> >> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >> >
> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
> >> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> >> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>


------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:03:56 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: BMW M1 article
To: "larry at ohiotimecorp.com" <larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
Cc: Melanie Disco <michael at michaelshortt.com>,	"detomaso at poca.com"
	<detomaso at poca.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=ct8fJjtmsqw1jxrisqnuykiny67D2e2k3Oh-8AwQ0HZGQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Oh I was only talking about the first time, at 65 I married a 16 year old
girl from Bali, I figured I would get one before she was corrupted by
decadent western society. Now all I have to do is teach her how to speak
english , use electricity, running water, and a few other minor aspects of
modern life.
But somethings are the same the world over, she wants a new rock to wash
the cloths on! Theses chicks are never satisfied!   LOL
I hope you all realize this is a joke ala Larry

Boyd


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Larry - Ohio Time Corp <
larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:

> <<I should know I married one when I was 40>>
>
> And I did it at 52....
>
>
> Larry (know better now) - Cleveland
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
> Behalf
> Of Boyd Casey
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 11:21 PM
> To: Rob Dumoulin
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; michael at michaelshortt.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: BMW M1 article
>
> That's also the worst thing! I should know I married one when I was 40.
> Boyd
>
> On Friday, July 19, 2013, Rob Dumoulin wrote:
>
> > You know the best thing about going out with 24 year old women? No
> > matter how old you get, they are still 24.
> >
> > On Friday, July 19, 2013, michael at michaelshortt.com <javascript:;>
> wrote:
> >
> > > You know what I hate,
> > >
> > > 24 year old, size 4 women who are vapid, can't carry on a
> > > conversation,
> > get
> > > drunk too easily and like to involve their friends in their naughty
> > > shenanigans,
> > >
> > >
> > > Some people will complain about anything,
> > >
> > > Michael Shortt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Corey Price
> > > <coreyjprice at gmail.com<javascript:;>
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know it has been discussed, but I was struck by the similarities
> > > between
> > > > the M1 and the Pantera.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/1212_1980_bmw_m1_classic_dr
> > ive/viewall.html
> > > >
> > > > They talk about the lack of headroom for taller drivers, offset
> > > > pedals, gear layout, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Corey
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > > >
> > > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > > DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>
> > > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael L. Shortt
> > > Savannah, Georgia
> > > www.michaelshortt.com
> > > michael at michaelshortt.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;> 912-232-9390
> > >
> > >
> > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> > > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> > > privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > notified
> > > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> > > communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that
> > you
> > > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> > >
> > > DeTomaso mailing list
> > > DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;> <javascript:;>
> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from Gmail Mobile
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com <javascript:;>
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:11:54 -0400
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<CALsQ=cvRsy8jnuAGs5MVzJov9afCeS8-r4Sri9-Rji3b-X_PsA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I mentioned somewhere in an earlier part of the post that I would no longer
be purchasing any Chinese parts for my Pantera (or any of my other
property) .  Unless there is no other choice.  I feel I am paying the price
for failing to support the US economy and attempting to save a few bucks by
purchasing Chinese goods. If enough of us followed the same philosophy we
wouldn't have to worry about US made parts not being available. We also
have to report counterfeit  goods everywhere and anywhere we find them. The
Chinese have no respect for international law like Patents . trade marks
etc.
Boyd


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Brian Dudley <bd8134 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Or you could avoid the Chinese stuff for not much more.
> http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/starter_home.html#comparison
> Their customer service was good for me.
> They bought out a starter that was smaller and more powerful than the one
> I had bought from them.
> I returned mine and just paid the difference.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For those who missed my earlier correction the company I am currently
>> researching per Ken Green's reccomendation is
>>
>> " IMI Performance products Inc. Hi Torque ?" I had  mistakenly referred to
>> it as* IMF*
>>
>>
>> Be forewarned that there are numerous vendors on Ebay and else where that
>> are offering for sale products listed as IMI Performance Products "Hi
>> Torque?" that are bootleg , counterfeit, fake or what ever you care to
>> call
>> them . But they are not the real deal!
>> If it looks to good to be true ....IT IS!
>>
>> Boyd
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Julian,
>> > I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read
>> about
>> > his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly
>> his
>> > experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
>> > Boyd
>> >
>> >
>> >  Jerry Knotts
>> >  9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
>> >     to detomaso
>>
>> >  Boyd,
>> >
>> > I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
>> > battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
>> > less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
>> > the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
>> > they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
>> > explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
>> > pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
>> > said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
>> > said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
>> > starter after I returned the defective one.
>> >
>> > You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
>> > for and almost never get more.
>> > jerry
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter
>> being
>> >> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current
>> draw.
>> >>
>> >> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
>> >> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing
>> from
>> >> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
>> >> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
>> >> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality,
>> higher
>> >> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle
>> the
>> >> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then
>> any
>> >> solution is only temporary.
>> >>
>> >> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
>> >> continuity etc.?
>> >>
>> >> Julian
>> >>
>> >> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
>> >> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
>> >> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>> >>
>> >> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
>> >> >
>> >> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
>> >> > >
>> >> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go
>> wrong
>> >> with
>> >> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign
>> >> made
>> >> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a
>> thermoplastic
>> >> block.
>> >> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current
>> momentarily,
>> >> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
>> >> enough for
>> >> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
>> >> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
>> >> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've
>> 'fixed'
>> >> a couple of
>> >> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
>> >> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if
>> there's
>> >> any evidence
>> >> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
>> >> touch.
>> >> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
>> >> differently
>> >> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> >> >
>> >> > DeTomaso mailing list
>> >> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>> >> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:37:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Dynamat Xtreme results - electric motor whine
To: will.kooiman at gmail.com, kenn_green at yahoo.com,
	fresnofinches at aol.com,	detomaso at poca.com
Message-ID: <15df4.540b4d74.3f1ed5ea at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"


In a message dated 7/22/13 8 40 44, will.kooiman at gmail.com writes:


> Is this the best stuff to muffle electric motor whine?
> 
> I'm trying to quiet down aquarium pumps.
> 

>>>This stuff is to dampen/eliminate drumming vibration.   It works on 
larger expanses of sheetmetal like the firewall, floorpans, etc. but it probably 

won't be very effective on something like a pump.   But it certainly 
wouldn't hurt to try?   Presuming that you are concerned about allowing radiant 
cooling, you wouldn't want to cover the whole thing, but instead just put 
small patches on here and there.

Mike

------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
To: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>, Julian Kift
	<julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>, Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
Message-ID:
	<1374518684.52861.YahooMailNeo at web162501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have clients who have gone to China for manufacturing, and after getting it 
right, it gets messed up.? They may have a good product for a year, and then a 
container is delivered that is out of spec.? So you can get good parts from 
China, but there is a risk.?
?
Ken


________________________________
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> 
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>; Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust


Julian,
I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read about
his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly his
experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
Boyd


Jerry Knotts
9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
to detomaso
Boyd,

I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
battery.? They sent another starter and I had it installed.? It lasted
less than a week.? I called and ask if they had found the problem with
the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
they just throw the defective starters away.? I called again and
explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.? They
said no.? I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
said I should shop elsewhere.? They did refund the original price of the
starter after I returned the defective one.

You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
for and almost never get more.
jerry


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:

> This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter being
> the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current draw.
>
> I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
> widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
> a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
> changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
> life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality, higher
> dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle the
> route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
> solution is only temporary.
>
> Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
> continuity etc.?
>
> Julian
>
> > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
>
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> >
> > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> >
> > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> > >
> > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
> with
> > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign made
> > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic
> block.
> > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
> > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
> enough for
> > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
> > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed' a
> couple of
> > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
> > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
> any evidence
> > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
> touch.
> > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
> differently
> > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > DeTomaso at poca.com
> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
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