[DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust

Mon Jul 22 17:19:56 EDT 2013

Although we all want and demand good customer sevice I do understand DB's stance, it's a question of business economics. It just doesn't pay them to look too deeply into a $50 part, so replace or refund is the best way out. With that said if the warranty claims become unwieldy it should force DB Electrical to look into their product quality as they won't stay in business long with a bad product. In many ways it is no different than your auto manufacturer assessing when to recall vehicles based upon how many deaths they predict might ensue from a failure.

Personally I think DB's policy is about as good a customer service as you are going to get out of most vendors these days, even the manufacturer of your Optima battery no longer offer full exchange, only prorated exchange to the warranted life of the original purchase battery.

Liability is nearly always limited to the part, not incidental costs, after the point of refund or replace if a customer is not satisfied then there isn't much the vendor will do, so often the best solution is to part ways.

On a last note satistics say most accidents and breakdowns happen within 25 miles from home, so you are better off just getting in and driving, unless of course you drive a modern vehicle that has an unbeknown to you manufacturer's defect and they haven't yet hit the statistical number of deaths to warrant to recall it......

Julian

Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it.

Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:26:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
From: boyd411 at gmail.com
To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
CC: erjpike at gmail.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com; detomaso at poca.com; jderyke at aol.com

I think part of the problem with DB Electric is as Bud Howard said in his post : Once he returned the starter that had failed he asked the people at DR Electrical "what was the cause of the failure?" They said "We don't even bother to check, we just chuck them in the dumpster."  among other things that shows a company that has no way of tracking quality control and or just doesn't care. That doesn't instill the kind of confidence that I would like to have in the company that is manufacturing the parts I am using in my Pantera. How could I drive from N.Y. to a Fun rally anywhere more then 25 miles away from home without worrying about whether or not I will make it to my destination and then back home. 
Boyd

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

IMI has been making and selling these for a long time.  Their original patent is attached.  UPS was using cheap starters, and at least the local UPS center has switched to Jack's starters.  If anyone has a problem with his starters, I'm sure he personally will want to find out what happened so it won't happen again.

Ken

From: Ed Pike <erjpike at gmail.com>
To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> 

Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>; Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:07 PM 

Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust

Julian, Ken,

My starter is a "Proform Hi Torque Gear Reduction Starter" sourced from
Summit. I am wondering if rather than a specific brand of starter being an
issue it is the "new and improved versions" of many of the starters that
are have become the issue?

Ed..

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have clients who have gone to China for manufacturing, and after getting
> it right, it gets messed up.  They may have a good product for a year, and
> then a container is delivered that is out of spec.  So you can get good
> parts from China, but there is a risk.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>; Jack Deryke <jderyke at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
>
>
> Julian,
> I am forwarding an e-mail that another member sent me off list. Read about
> his experience with D&B Electric starters and I think more importantly his
> experience with their customer service and their advice to him.
> Boyd
>
>
> Jerry Knotts
> 9:45 PM (15 hours ago)
> to detomaso
> Boyd,
>
> I had a problem with one of their starters hanging up and ruining a
> battery.  They sent another starter and I had it installed.  It lasted
> less than a week.  I called and ask if they had found the problem with
> the first starter and they explained it wasn't worth the trouble and
> they just throw the defective starters away.  I called again and
> explained that I was displeased with their products and wanted them to
> pay for a starter R&R after I had purchased a rebuilt at AutoZone.  They
> said no.  I said I was displeased with their customer service and they
> said I should shop elsewhere.  They did refund the original price of the
> starter after I returned the defective one.
>
> You would think at my age I would understand you rarely get what you pay
> for and almost never get more.
> jerry
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > This is a PMGR starter, one of the benefits over a standard starter being
> > the gear reduction (usually in the order of 4.5:1) reducing current draw.
> >
> > I'm skeptical that a previously endorsed product (now seemingly quite
> > widely used in Pantera's) is suddenly so bad, unless DB is sourcing from
> > a different supplier. You have now eaten 3 starters, so what else has
> > changed to cause the first (4 years is not a long or acceptable service
> > life) and subsequent replacements to go out? Yes a higher quality, higher
> > dollar starter may overcome your problem, but will you actually tackle
> the
> > route cause of the problem? If you don't get to the route cause then any
> > solution is only temporary.
> >
> > Have you checked simple stuff like voltage at the starter, ground
> > continuity etc.?
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > > From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> > > Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 03:13:09 -0400
> > > To: boyd411 at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DB electric starter bites the dust
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/21/13 5:25:42 PM, boyd411 at gmail.com writes:
> > >
> > > > Does anyone know of a problem that can be wiping out solenoids
> > > >
> > > A solenoid is a simple electromechanical device. Not much can go wrong
> > with
> > > it, with so few parts. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, some foreign
> made
> > > solenoids have the main contacts in back insulated with a thermoplastic
> > block.
> > > Your high compression engine may pull 300 AMPS of current momentarily,
> > > which creates a LOT of heat. Eventually, the thermoplastic softens
> > enough for
> > > the contacts to sink into them, so they no longer make contact
> > > OEM starters use a thermoset material to insulate & mount solenoid
> > > contacts. Thermosets do not melt in high heat- they char. I've 'fixed'
> a
> > couple of
> > > cheap foreign starters by using salvaged solenoid contact plates in
> > > nearly-new solenoid bodies. Pull the solenoid apart and see if there's
> > any evidence
> > > the contacts have sunk into the plastic insulator so they no longer
> > touch.
> > > Buying another of what already failed, and expecting it to behave
> > differently
> > > is one definition of insanity. Good luck- J Deryke
> > > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Thanks,

Ed...
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