[DeTomaso] NPC: Motor racing and fairness

Thu Jul 4 11:55:34 EDT 2013

This was the photo of the bondo pop into the intake I meant ot list:

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_h.jpg

> I don't actually see Nascar as a race. I never remember or pay attention
> to the winner because it is irrelevant. I will say I have it on the shop
> when I am working on cars. It is a good background noise which I don't
> have to pay attention to; because there is no reason. The dynamics of the
> cars, power, technology is no doubt interesting. I would be less then
> Human to say that I don't put down my tools to see a big wreck, to watch
> the dynamics of the wreck, etc. There is never a race I could not walk
> away from because....well is really a race or a demonstration.
>
> After going to air races, I find it hard to enjoy auto races unless I can
> specifically participate.
>
> If you ever have a chance to go to the Reno Air races I would encourage
> you to do so. It is still a dangerous sport even for spectators as was
> seen a few years ago. One year I went 3 guys were killed in their
> airplanes which was unfortunate and once incident a biplane landed where a
> group had just left in an area considered a safe zone.
>
> None the less, some of the races are categorized and some are UNLIMITED!
> Unlimited meaning....besides being propeller driven, UNLIMITED! These guys
> do not race for purse for the purse would not pay for much.
>
> Growing up through college and then some, Have followed RareBear owned by
> Lyle Sheldon and latter bought by Lewis. Fastest prop driven airplane in
> the world still today at 528mph. The airplane is equipped with a 3350 from
> a Lockheed Constellation. For years ran a P3-Orion propeller.  The prop
> was so big he could not make a full tail up take off or landing as it
> would strike the prop!
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear.jpg
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_d.jpg
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_puff2.jpg
>
> http://www.lewisairlegends.com/aircraft/rare-bear
>
>
> My first visit to the races, spent the week following the heats. With Rare
> Bear's new owner, the plane finally had a real source of money. Talking
> with John Penny the pilot, the plane had totally been rebuilt. They were
> making progress with fuel and ignition and increasing speeds every lap.
> They were only disappointed in the paint of all things. The painted used a
> heavy grit sand paper and concern was they damaged the airplane skin.
> After the races it was to be completely stripped and inspected.
>
> During the heat races the speeds got better and better; watching with
> interest. The day of the race the airplanes are rolled out in big fan fair
> with the team member sitting on the wings. Groups in the stand cheering
> for their favorite. As the engines and airplanes fire up and head out the
> tension rises as thousands of Horse Power head for the air; no airplane
> the same, no strategy the same.
>
> As the Pace plane and the race begins within a half a lap Rare Bear is
> ahead. Soon he is a half a lap ahead of everyone then nearly a lap a head
> of number 2. WHAT IS GOING ON! Thee racing is about winning and leading in
> this sort of fashion only begs self destruction of the engine. You only
> use what you have to otherwise risk blowing your engine.
>
> Will he make it or will the engine blow? Rare Bear wins blowing the doors
> off like we have not seen in a long time....but then he pulls up and is
> joined by the jet pace plane. Soon the announcer says that Rare Bear's
> throttle IS STILL stuck wide open AND...he has 5 minutes of fuel left!!!!
>
> All the planes land as quickly as they can and get out of the way. Rare
> Bear lines up and kills the ignition and the engine for the most perfect
> engine out landing you could ask for.
>
> I am sorry but nothing in car racing has ever got my goat such as this.
>
> After the race we hung out for a while. Come to find out, the painter put
> a thick skim of bondo on the cowl. Some bondo popped off, entered the
> intake duct, blocked some of the duct but also lodged the throttle full
> open!!
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_puff2.jpg
>
> Reno air racing is as close to a 1965 event I think you can come to. When
> you walk in the atmosphere is just.......You have to be there. The risk is
> still there as you would have from that time frame and is real. We all
> know the event which this plane was involved in which caused many lives:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/GG.jpg
>
> I was there the year before. The talk was of the modifications this plane
> had which they thought would blow Rare Bear out of the water. As the gold
> race came near the energy in the air was again building. BUT....the winds
> were bad. In the race prior to the gold 3/4 scale mustangs were battling
> when one lost an engine and declared a mayday. The fella flying this
> airplane was a little late making a turn and could not align with the
> runway before running out of airspeed and altitude. He did however keep it
> under control.
>
> BUT.. his path took him straight for the military pits which had people
> beginning to run. He touched down in the intersection crossing the runways
> perpendicular. As he left the runway the ditch threw the airplane back in
> the air for which he was to slow for his flight controls to do anything.
> His airplane cart wheeled as our stomachs rose to our lungs.
>
> I took this photo :30 after he stopped:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/wreck.jpg
>
> A few minutes latter he stood and waved to the crowd.
>
> After which they canceled the gold races due to wind. On this day no one
> would know what :Galloping Ghost was really capable of. The following year
> a trim tab broke on Galloping ghost and he hit 12G's knocked to the
> floorboard of the aircraft as the aircraft came down with no control into
> the center of the air show killing several people. I really thought the
> airshow was over and I think it will always have a dark cloud after that.
>
> The racing P-51's have had at least 3 incidents with the trim tab coming
> off causing extreme pull ups. One crashed in the desert, another the guy
> woke up at 10,000+ feet with his face on the floor being pulled through
> the straps trying to figure out where he was and what was going on. He
> lived.
>
> Yet NOTHING I have seen (except maybe a shuttle launch) has compared to
> unlimited air racing and Warbirds chasing each other:
>
> http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/twins.jpg
>
>
> I also believe at some point safety will kill this sport so if you want to
> experience it I would do so now!
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>> Let me add my view on Schumacher. He won a lot, but...
>> In the Benetton days because they cheated. In 94 he deliberately crashed
>> into Hill to steal the championship in Australia. He then joined Ferrari
>> where everything was about him, and FIA has given Ferrari advantages in
>> strange decisions numerous times. Schumacher's latest Mercedes adventure
>> kind of sets the record straight...
>>
>> Where has fair motorsports gone to? F1 is Ferrari's to win, the Tifosis
>> rule, Nascar is a joke in this regard, even our beloved Le Mans where
>> the
>> fast cars get weight penalties to ensure the show? Is Indycar fair at
>> least?
>>
>> Mikael
>> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>> Fra: michael at michaelshortt.com [mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com]
>> Sendt: 3. juli 2013 20:50
>> Til: Darryl Johnson
>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; John Donahue
>> Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>
>> Let me also add Timo Glock to that list who bent over like a prison
>> BIT$#
>> so
>> that Hamilton could win the F1 title instead of Massa who earned it and
>> is
>> twice the man in character, honor and guts and Diaz will ever be.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:46 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you have a teammate willing to crash his car into the bloody wall
>>> to ensure that you win, if your team leader is EXPELLED ( Flavio) from
>>> the sport forever for what he did to win those titles, if you are in
>>> the middle of a tech spy case that resulted in a  100 million dollar
>>> fine (McLaren), constantly whine like a little girl and pitch a hissy
>>> fit because your teammate is in front of you (FerrarI), no matter
>>> which team you are driving for,...
>>>
>>> "Alonzo is ah faster than you", Ferrari speak for "he can't pass you,
>>> please let him by"
>>>
>>> yeah, Alonzo's the man, if your definition is cheater, cry baby, and
>>> stool pigeon.
>>>
>>> maybe he can drive, but he lacks character and honor.
>>>
>>> I stand by my estimation of the little Philistine,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Darryl Johnson
>> <johnsondarr at hughes.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow, Michael. Your description of Fernando Alonso is a bit off in my
>>>> opinion and I believe stems mostly from he and Lewis's issues at
>>>> McLaren. At both Renault (two time world champion) and at Ferrari
>>>> Fernando is LOVED not just liked. When Fernando went to McLaren as
>>>> the current World Champion he was promised a certain level of support
>>>> and status as the No. 1 driver.
>>>> Instead
>>>> Lewis and Ron Dennis the Team principal at McLaren treated him as a
>>>> test driver and for the most part as second spot driver. Fernando's
>>>> response to that was as it should have been. He held his No. 1 status
>>>> as best he could under the circumstances and then left for Ferrari.
>>>> Ron Dennis was later demoted and removed from race operations at
>>>> McLaren. One reason among many was the loss of what most people in F1
>>>> believe is the best driver in the race.
>>>>
>>>> You and I can disagree on these points so let's use Racer Magazine's
>>>> poll of the 12 team principal's in Formula One for their opinion of
>>>> who is the "BEST DRIVER". Out of 12 teams Fernando Alonso was picked
>>>> by 10 teams as the best driver in F1. Last year with a middle of the
>>>> pack car he lost the championship by what 2 or 3 points (forgot and
>>>> didn't look this up)?
>>>>
>>>> I agree Kimi is great! He is the ICEMAN and drives with great skill
>>>> and nerves of steel. But what most people like is his attitude.
>>>> Summed up by his response to the question of what would happen if he
>>>> couldn't race in F1....
>>>> "there's lots of things to do besides F1"! This comment was made even
>>>> more contrasting to the other drivers who were panicking about where
>>>> and who they could drive for in the upcoming seasons.
>>>>
>>>> But remember when Fernando was with Renault (now Lotus) he won the F1
>>>> championship twice. At a time when Mickael Schumacher and Ferrari
>>>> were almost invincible. Kimi has yet to do that at Lotus (Renault)
>>>> however he is a F1 World Champion. Right now the F1 championship is a
>>>> race between Vettel and you guessed it Fernando Alonso who has a
>>>> clearly inferior car. Both have a DNF due to failures.
>>>>
>>>> Just to keep it real.
>>>>
>>>> Darryl
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:25 AM
>>>> To: LS
>>>> Cc: John Donahue; DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>>>
>>>> Kimi is my fav driver, he should have been a multiple time world
>>>> champion, he was so screwed during his time at McLaren, he developed
>>>> that bcar for the success that followed, much the same way that
>>>> Schumacher did at MB for their success this year.
>>>>
>>>> I can't stand Diaz ( Alonzo's real name), cry baby, cheater, and
>>>> stool pigeon.
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I really like Kimi and not just because he can put down some
>>>> > serious
>>>> booze.
>>>> >
>>>> > He's shown his incredible skill but the early season pace of the
>>>> > Lotus is gone.
>>>> >
>>>> > He does need to find a car (Lotus or not) that can perform...
>>>> >
>>>> > LS
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > central
>>>> > wines-spirits   est 1934
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 625 e street nw
>>>> >
>>>> > washington, dc 20004
>>>> >
>>>> > centralwines.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > facebook.com/CentralLiquors
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 202-737-2800
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ________________________________
>>>> >  From: John Donahue <demongusta at me.com>
>>>> > To: LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com>
>>>> > Cc: DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:56 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Kimi needs a car. He has milked the Lotus. Needs Webber's spot. Or
>>>> Mazza's.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Jul 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > That was scary to watch last weekend!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Not very comforting for a drive to know that his left rear could
>>>> > > go at
>>>> > anytime.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > LS
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > central
>>>> > > wines-spirits   est 1934
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 625 e street nw
>>>> > >
>>>> > > washington, dc 20004
>>>> > >
>>>> > > centralwines.com
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > facebook.com/CentralLiquors
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 202-737-2800
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ________________________________
>>>> > > From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>>> > > To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
>>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:13 PM
>>>> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Looks like I have to eat crow, who knew ( apparently NOT EVEN THE
>>>> > > F1
>>>> > TEAMS,
>>>> > > for the first time is history that the tires were built
>>>> > > asymmetrically, ( Left side and Right side specific ), so when I
>>>> > > said otherwise, I was
>>>> > wrong,
>>>> > > but not alone.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Here's the poop from Autoweek.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Michael Shortt
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Pirelli releases statement regarding Silverstone tire failures
>>>> > > *Tire supplier says it is not to blame for failures*
>>>> > > By: Adam Cooper on July 2, 2013
>>>> > >
>>>> > >    -
>>>> > >    <
>>>> > http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130702/F1/1307
>>>> > 099
>>>> > 60&template=XSendMail
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Pirelli has issued the following statement on what happened at
>>>> > > Silverstone<http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130701/F1/130709996
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > -- and what the company plans to do next. See our previous
>>>> > > stories for a summary.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > After exhaustive analysis of the tires used at Silverstone,
>>>> > > Pirelli has concluded that the causes of the failures were
>>>> > > principally down to a combination of the following factors:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1) Rear tires that were mounted the wrong way round: in other
>>>> > > words, the right hand tire being placed where the left hand one
>>>> > > should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures. The
>>>> > > tires supplied this year have an asymmetric structure, which
>>>> > > means that they are not designed to
>>>> > be
>>>> > > interchangeable. The sidewalls are designed in such a way to deal
>>>> > > with specific loads on the internal and external sides of the
>>>> tire.
>>>> > > So
>>>> > swapping
>>>> > > the tires round has an effect on how they work in certain
>>>> > > conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope
>>>> > > with the very high
>>>> > loads
>>>> > > that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as
>>>> > > Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that
>>>> > > are particularly aggressive.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 2) The use of tire pressures that were excessively low or in any
>>>> > > case
>>>> > lower
>>>> > > than those indicated by Pirelli. Under-inflating the tires means
>>>> > > that the tire is subjected to more stressful working conditions.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 3) The use of extreme camber angles.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 4) Kerbing that was particularly aggressive on fast corners, such
>>>> > > as that on turn four at Silverstone, which was the scene of most
>>>> > > of the
>>>> failures.
>>>> > > Consequently it was the left-rear tires that were affected.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The only problems that had come to light before Silverstone were
>>>> > > to do
>>>> > with
>>>> > > delamination, which was a completely different phenomenon. To
>>>> > > stop these delaminations Pirelli found a solution by suggesting
>>>> > > that the teams use
>>>> > the
>>>> > > tires that were tried out in Canada from Silverstone onwards.
>>>> > > When this proposal was not accepted, Pirelli found another
>>>> > > solution through laboratory testing, with a different bonding
>>>> > > process to attach the tread
>>>> > to
>>>> > > the carcass. So the problem of delamination has nothing at all to
>>>> > > do with what was seen in Great Britain.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Following the conclusions of this analysis, Pirelli would like to
>>>> > underline
>>>> > > that:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1) Mounting the tires the wrong way round is a practice that was
>>>> > > nonetheless underestimated by everybody: above all Pirelli, which
>>>> > > did not forbid this.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 2) In the same way, under-inflation of the tires and extreme
>>>> > > camber settings, over which Pirelli has no control, are choices
>>>> > > that can be dangerous under certain circumstances. Because of
>>>> > > this, Pirelli has asked the FIA for these parameters to be a
>>>> > > topic of accurate and future examinations. (Doesn’t make sense)
>>>> > > Pirelli has also asked for compliance with these rules to be
>>>> checked
>> by a dedicated delegate.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 3) Pirelli would also like to underline that the 2013 tire range
>>>> > > does not compromise driver safety in any way if used in the
>>>> > > correct manner, and
>>>> > that
>>>> > > it meets all the safety standards requested by the FIA.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The logical conclusion is that it is essential for tires with the
>>>> > > performance and technical sophistication of the 2013 range to be
>>>> > regulated
>>>> > > and carefully controlled by Pirelli itself. In order to ensure
>>>> > > the
>>>> > optimal
>>>> > > functioning of the tires, the Italian firm would need real-time
>>>> > > data from the teams regarding fundamental parameters such as
>>>> > > pressure, temperature and camber angles. While waiting for new
>>>> > > regulations that would permit Pirelli access to this data, vital
>>>> > > for the development and management of these state-of-the-art
>>>> > > tires, the following measures are proposed for the forthcoming
>>>> > > grands prix, in agreement with the FIA, FOM, the teams and
>>>> > the
>>>> > > drivers:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1) The use of the evolution of the current tire that was tested
>>>> > > in Canada (and proved to be completely reliable) for the German
>>>> > > Grand Prix this weekend. This represents the best match for the
>>>> > > technical characteristics of the Nürburgring circuit. In
>>>> > > particular, the rear tires that will be
>>>> > used
>>>> > > at the German Grand Prix, which takes place on July 7, have a
>>>> > > Kevlar construction that replaces the current steel structure and
>>>> > > the re-introduction of the 2012 belt, to ensure maximum stability
>>>> > > and roadholding. Given that these tires are asymmetric as well,
>>>> > > it will be strictly forbidden to swap them round. The front
>>>> > > tires, by contrast, will remain unaltered.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 2) From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards, the introduction of a
>>>> > > new range of tires. The new tires will have a symmetrical
>>>> > > structure, designed to guarantee maximum safety even without
>>>> > > access to tire data – which however is essential for the optimal
>>>> > > function of the more sophisticated 2013
>>>> > tires.
>>>> > > The tires that will be used for the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards
>>>> > > will combine the characteristics of the 2012 tires with the
>>>> > > performance of the
>>>> > > 2013 compounds. Essentially, the new tires will have a structure,
>>>> > > construction and belt identical to that of 2012, which ensured
>>>> > > maximum performance and safety. The compounds will be the same as
>>>> > > those used throughout 2013, which guaranteed faster lap times and
>>>> > > a wider working range. This new specification, as agreed with the
>>>> > > FIA, will be tested on-track together with the teams and their
>>>> > > 2013 cars at Silverstone from July 17-19 in a session with the
>>>> > > race drivers during the Young Driver
>>>> > Test.
>>>> > > These tests will contribute to the definitive development of the
>>>> > > new
>>>> > range
>>>> > > of tires, giving teams the opportunity to carry out the
>>>> > > appropriate
>>>> > set-up
>>>> > > work on their cars.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Read more:
>>>> > > http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130702/f1/130709960#ixzz2Y01kYj
>>>> > > D8
>>>> > > Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on
>>>> > > Twitter<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=crYS7cwFer3QPQacn9QLBk&u=Autow
>>>> > > eek
>>>> > > USA>
>>>> > > | AutoweekUSA on
>>>> > > Facebook<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=crYS7cwFer3QPQacn9QLBk&u=Auto
>>>> > > wee
>>>> > > kUSA
>>>> > >
>>>> > > --
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Michael L. Shortt
>>>> > > Savannah, Georgia
>>>> > > www.michaelshortt.com
>>>> > > michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> > > 912-232-9390
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>>> > > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
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>>>> > > hereby
>>>> > notified
>>>> > > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
>>>> > > this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the
>>>> > > sender that
>>>> > you
>>>> > > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>>> www.michaelshortt.com
>>>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> 912-232-9390
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act,
>>>> 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>>> notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying
>>>> of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the
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>>>> Thank you _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>> www.michaelshortt.com
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> 912-232-9390
>>>
>>>
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act,
>>> 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>> notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
>>> this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender
>>> that you have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank
>>> you
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
>> U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.
>> If
>> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>> retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
>> is
>> strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received
>> this
>> message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>
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