[DeTomaso] NPC: Motor racing and fairness

Thu Jul 4 11:49:09 EDT 2013

I don't actually see Nascar as a race. I never remember or pay attention
to the winner because it is irrelevant. I will say I have it on the shop
when I am working on cars. It is a good background noise which I don't
have to pay attention to; because there is no reason. The dynamics of the
cars, power, technology is no doubt interesting. I would be less then
Human to say that I don't put down my tools to see a big wreck, to watch
the dynamics of the wreck, etc. There is never a race I could not walk
away from because....well is really a race or a demonstration.

After going to air races, I find it hard to enjoy auto races unless I can
specifically participate.

If you ever have a chance to go to the Reno Air races I would encourage
you to do so. It is still a dangerous sport even for spectators as was
seen a few years ago. One year I went 3 guys were killed in their
airplanes which was unfortunate and once incident a biplane landed where a
group had just left in an area considered a safe zone.

None the less, some of the races are categorized and some are UNLIMITED!
Unlimited meaning....besides being propeller driven, UNLIMITED! These guys
do not race for purse for the purse would not pay for much.

Growing up through college and then some, Have followed RareBear owned by
Lyle Sheldon and latter bought by Lewis. Fastest prop driven airplane in
the world still today at 528mph. The airplane is equipped with a 3350 from
a Lockheed Constellation. For years ran a P3-Orion propeller.  The prop
was so big he could not make a full tail up take off or landing as it
would strike the prop!

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_d.jpg

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_puff2.jpg

http://www.lewisairlegends.com/aircraft/rare-bear

My first visit to the races, spent the week following the heats. With Rare
Bear's new owner, the plane finally had a real source of money. Talking
with John Penny the pilot, the plane had totally been rebuilt. They were
making progress with fuel and ignition and increasing speeds every lap.
They were only disappointed in the paint of all things. The painted used a
heavy grit sand paper and concern was they damaged the airplane skin.
After the races it was to be completely stripped and inspected.

During the heat races the speeds got better and better; watching with
interest. The day of the race the airplanes are rolled out in big fan fair
with the team member sitting on the wings. Groups in the stand cheering
for their favorite. As the engines and airplanes fire up and head out the
tension rises as thousands of Horse Power head for the air; no airplane
the same, no strategy the same.

As the Pace plane and the race begins within a half a lap Rare Bear is
ahead. Soon he is a half a lap ahead of everyone then nearly a lap a head
of number 2. WHAT IS GOING ON! Thee racing is about winning and leading in
this sort of fashion only begs self destruction of the engine. You only
use what you have to otherwise risk blowing your engine.

Will he make it or will the engine blow? Rare Bear wins blowing the doors
off like we have not seen in a long time....but then he pulls up and is
joined by the jet pace plane. Soon the announcer says that Rare Bear's
throttle IS STILL stuck wide open AND...he has 5 minutes of fuel left!!!!

All the planes land as quickly as they can and get out of the way. Rare
Bear lines up and kills the ignition and the engine for the most perfect
engine out landing you could ask for.

I am sorry but nothing in car racing has ever got my goat such as this.

After the race we hung out for a while. Come to find out, the painter put
a thick skim of bondo on the cowl. Some bondo popped off, entered the
intake duct, blocked some of the duct but also lodged the throttle full
open!!

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/Bear_puff2.jpg

Reno air racing is as close to a 1965 event I think you can come to. When
you walk in the atmosphere is just.......You have to be there. The risk is
still there as you would have from that time frame and is real. We all
know the event which this plane was involved in which caused many lives:

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/GG.jpg

I was there the year before. The talk was of the modifications this plane
had which they thought would blow Rare Bear out of the water. As the gold
race came near the energy in the air was again building. BUT....the winds
were bad. In the race prior to the gold 3/4 scale mustangs were battling
when one lost an engine and declared a mayday. The fella flying this
airplane was a little late making a turn and could not align with the
runway before running out of airspeed and altitude. He did however keep it
under control.

BUT.. his path took him straight for the military pits which had people
beginning to run. He touched down in the intersection crossing the runways
perpendicular. As he left the runway the ditch threw the airplane back in
the air for which he was to slow for his flight controls to do anything.
His airplane cart wheeled as our stomachs rose to our lungs.

I took this photo :30 after he stopped:

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/wreck.jpg

A few minutes latter he stood and waved to the crowd.

After which they canceled the gold races due to wind. On this day no one
would know what :Galloping Ghost was really capable of. The following year
a trim tab broke on Galloping ghost and he hit 12G's knocked to the
floorboard of the aircraft as the aircraft came down with no control into
the center of the air show killing several people. I really thought the
airshow was over and I think it will always have a dark cloud after that.

The racing P-51's have had at least 3 incidents with the trim tab coming
off causing extreme pull ups. One crashed in the desert, another the guy
woke up at 10,000+ feet with his face on the floor being pulled through
the straps trying to figure out where he was and what was going on. He
lived.

Yet NOTHING I have seen (except maybe a shuttle launch) has compared to
unlimited air racing and Warbirds chasing each other:

http://www.rc-tech.net/rn/twins.jpg

I also believe at some point safety will kill this sport so if you want to
experience it I would do so now!

Gary

> Let me add my view on Schumacher. He won a lot, but...
> In the Benetton days because they cheated. In 94 he deliberately crashed
> into Hill to steal the championship in Australia. He then joined Ferrari
> where everything was about him, and FIA has given Ferrari advantages in
> strange decisions numerous times. Schumacher's latest Mercedes adventure
> kind of sets the record straight...
>
> Where has fair motorsports gone to? F1 is Ferrari's to win, the Tifosis
> rule, Nascar is a joke in this regard, even our beloved Le Mans where the
> fast cars get weight penalties to ensure the show? Is Indycar fair at
> least?
>
> Mikael
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: michael at michaelshortt.com [mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com]
> Sendt: 3. juli 2013 20:50
> Til: Darryl Johnson
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com; John Donahue
> Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>
> Let me also add Timo Glock to that list who bent over like a prison BIT$#
> so
> that Hamilton could win the F1 title instead of Massa who earned it and is
> twice the man in character, honor and guts and Diaz will ever be.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:46 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you have a teammate willing to crash his car into the bloody wall
>> to ensure that you win, if your team leader is EXPELLED ( Flavio) from
>> the sport forever for what he did to win those titles, if you are in
>> the middle of a tech spy case that resulted in a  100 million dollar
>> fine (McLaren), constantly whine like a little girl and pitch a hissy
>> fit because your teammate is in front of you (FerrarI), no matter
>> which team you are driving for,...
>>
>> "Alonzo is ah faster than you", Ferrari speak for "he can't pass you,
>> please let him by"
>>
>> yeah, Alonzo's the man, if your definition is cheater, cry baby, and
>> stool pigeon.
>>
>> maybe he can drive, but he lacks character and honor.
>>
>> I stand by my estimation of the little Philistine,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Darryl Johnson
> <johnsondarr at hughes.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, Michael. Your description of Fernando Alonso is a bit off in my
>>> opinion and I believe stems mostly from he and Lewis's issues at
>>> McLaren. At both Renault (two time world champion) and at Ferrari
>>> Fernando is LOVED not just liked. When Fernando went to McLaren as
>>> the current World Champion he was promised a certain level of support
>>> and status as the No. 1 driver.
>>> Instead
>>> Lewis and Ron Dennis the Team principal at McLaren treated him as a
>>> test driver and for the most part as second spot driver. Fernando's
>>> response to that was as it should have been. He held his No. 1 status
>>> as best he could under the circumstances and then left for Ferrari.
>>> Ron Dennis was later demoted and removed from race operations at
>>> McLaren. One reason among many was the loss of what most people in F1
>>> believe is the best driver in the race.
>>>
>>> You and I can disagree on these points so let's use Racer Magazine's
>>> poll of the 12 team principal's in Formula One for their opinion of
>>> who is the "BEST DRIVER". Out of 12 teams Fernando Alonso was picked
>>> by 10 teams as the best driver in F1. Last year with a middle of the
>>> pack car he lost the championship by what 2 or 3 points (forgot and
>>> didn't look this up)?
>>>
>>> I agree Kimi is great! He is the ICEMAN and drives with great skill
>>> and nerves of steel. But what most people like is his attitude.
>>> Summed up by his response to the question of what would happen if he
>>> couldn't race in F1....
>>> "there's lots of things to do besides F1"! This comment was made even
>>> more contrasting to the other drivers who were panicking about where
>>> and who they could drive for in the upcoming seasons.
>>>
>>> But remember when Fernando was with Renault (now Lotus) he won the F1
>>> championship twice. At a time when Mickael Schumacher and Ferrari
>>> were almost invincible. Kimi has yet to do that at Lotus (Renault)
>>> however he is a F1 World Champion. Right now the F1 championship is a
>>> race between Vettel and you guessed it Fernando Alonso who has a
>>> clearly inferior car. Both have a DNF due to failures.
>>>
>>> Just to keep it real.
>>>
>>> Darryl
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On
>>> Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:25 AM
>>> To: LS
>>> Cc: John Donahue; DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>>
>>> Kimi is my fav driver, he should have been a multiple time world
>>> champion, he was so screwed during his time at McLaren, he developed
>>> that bcar for the success that followed, much the same way that
>>> Schumacher did at MB for their success this year.
>>>
>>> I can't stand Diaz ( Alonzo's real name), cry baby, cheater, and
>>> stool pigeon.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I really like Kimi and not just because he can put down some
>>> > serious
>>> booze.
>>> >
>>> > He's shown his incredible skill but the early season pace of the
>>> > Lotus is gone.
>>> >
>>> > He does need to find a car (Lotus or not) that can perform...
>>> >
>>> > LS
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > central
>>> > wines-spirits   est 1934
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 625 e street nw
>>> >
>>> > washington, dc 20004
>>> >
>>> > centralwines.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > facebook.com/CentralLiquors
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 202-737-2800
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________
>>> >  From: John Donahue <demongusta at me.com>
>>> > To: LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com>
>>> > Cc: DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:56 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kimi needs a car. He has milked the Lotus. Needs Webber's spot. Or
>>> Mazza's.
>>> >
>>> > On Jul 3, 2013, at 9:51 AM, LS <lashdeep at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > That was scary to watch last weekend!
>>> > >
>>> > > Not very comforting for a drive to know that his left rear could
>>> > > go at
>>> > anytime.
>>> > >
>>> > > LS
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > central
>>> > > wines-spirits   est 1934
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > 625 e street nw
>>> > >
>>> > > washington, dc 20004
>>> > >
>>> > > centralwines.com
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > facebook.com/CentralLiquors
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > 202-737-2800
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ________________________________
>>> > > From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> > > To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:13 PM
>>> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC: F1 Tire Failures
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Looks like I have to eat crow, who knew ( apparently NOT EVEN THE
>>> > > F1
>>> > TEAMS,
>>> > > for the first time is history that the tires were built
>>> > > asymmetrically, ( Left side and Right side specific ), so when I
>>> > > said otherwise, I was
>>> > wrong,
>>> > > but not alone.
>>> > >
>>> > > Here's the poop from Autoweek.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Michael Shortt
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Pirelli releases statement regarding Silverstone tire failures
>>> > > *Tire supplier says it is not to blame for failures*
>>> > > By: Adam Cooper on July 2, 2013
>>> > >
>>> > >    -
>>> > >    <
>>> > http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130702/F1/1307
>>> > 099
>>> > 60&template=XSendMail
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Pirelli has issued the following statement on what happened at
>>> > > Silverstone<http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130701/F1/130709996
>>> > > >
>>> > > -- and what the company plans to do next. See our previous
>>> > > stories for a summary.
>>> > >
>>> > > After exhaustive analysis of the tires used at Silverstone,
>>> > > Pirelli has concluded that the causes of the failures were
>>> > > principally down to a combination of the following factors:
>>> > >
>>> > > 1) Rear tires that were mounted the wrong way round: in other
>>> > > words, the right hand tire being placed where the left hand one
>>> > > should be and vice versa, on the cars that suffered failures. The
>>> > > tires supplied this year have an asymmetric structure, which
>>> > > means that they are not designed to
>>> > be
>>> > > interchangeable. The sidewalls are designed in such a way to deal
>>> > > with specific loads on the internal and external sides of the tire.
>>> > > So
>>> > swapping
>>> > > the tires round has an effect on how they work in certain
>>> > > conditions. In particular, the external part is designed to cope
>>> > > with the very high
>>> > loads
>>> > > that are generated while cornering at a circuit as demanding as
>>> > > Silverstone, with its rapid left-hand bends and some kerbs that
>>> > > are particularly aggressive.
>>> > >
>>> > > 2) The use of tire pressures that were excessively low or in any
>>> > > case
>>> > lower
>>> > > than those indicated by Pirelli. Under-inflating the tires means
>>> > > that the tire is subjected to more stressful working conditions.
>>> > >
>>> > > 3) The use of extreme camber angles.
>>> > >
>>> > > 4) Kerbing that was particularly aggressive on fast corners, such
>>> > > as that on turn four at Silverstone, which was the scene of most
>>> > > of the
>>> failures.
>>> > > Consequently it was the left-rear tires that were affected.
>>> > >
>>> > > The only problems that had come to light before Silverstone were
>>> > > to do
>>> > with
>>> > > delamination, which was a completely different phenomenon. To
>>> > > stop these delaminations Pirelli found a solution by suggesting
>>> > > that the teams use
>>> > the
>>> > > tires that were tried out in Canada from Silverstone onwards.
>>> > > When this proposal was not accepted, Pirelli found another
>>> > > solution through laboratory testing, with a different bonding
>>> > > process to attach the tread
>>> > to
>>> > > the carcass. So the problem of delamination has nothing at all to
>>> > > do with what was seen in Great Britain.
>>> > >
>>> > > Following the conclusions of this analysis, Pirelli would like to
>>> > underline
>>> > > that:
>>> > >
>>> > > 1) Mounting the tires the wrong way round is a practice that was
>>> > > nonetheless underestimated by everybody: above all Pirelli, which
>>> > > did not forbid this.
>>> > >
>>> > > 2) In the same way, under-inflation of the tires and extreme
>>> > > camber settings, over which Pirelli has no control, are choices
>>> > > that can be dangerous under certain circumstances. Because of
>>> > > this, Pirelli has asked the FIA for these parameters to be a
>>> > > topic of accurate and future examinations. (Doesn’t make sense)
>>> > > Pirelli has also asked for compliance with these rules to be
>>> checked
> by a dedicated delegate.
>>> > >
>>> > > 3) Pirelli would also like to underline that the 2013 tire range
>>> > > does not compromise driver safety in any way if used in the
>>> > > correct manner, and
>>> > that
>>> > > it meets all the safety standards requested by the FIA.
>>> > >
>>> > > The logical conclusion is that it is essential for tires with the
>>> > > performance and technical sophistication of the 2013 range to be
>>> > regulated
>>> > > and carefully controlled by Pirelli itself. In order to ensure
>>> > > the
>>> > optimal
>>> > > functioning of the tires, the Italian firm would need real-time
>>> > > data from the teams regarding fundamental parameters such as
>>> > > pressure, temperature and camber angles. While waiting for new
>>> > > regulations that would permit Pirelli access to this data, vital
>>> > > for the development and management of these state-of-the-art
>>> > > tires, the following measures are proposed for the forthcoming
>>> > > grands prix, in agreement with the FIA, FOM, the teams and
>>> > the
>>> > > drivers:
>>> > >
>>> > > 1) The use of the evolution of the current tire that was tested
>>> > > in Canada (and proved to be completely reliable) for the German
>>> > > Grand Prix this weekend. This represents the best match for the
>>> > > technical characteristics of the Nürburgring circuit. In
>>> > > particular, the rear tires that will be
>>> > used
>>> > > at the German Grand Prix, which takes place on July 7, have a
>>> > > Kevlar construction that replaces the current steel structure and
>>> > > the re-introduction of the 2012 belt, to ensure maximum stability
>>> > > and roadholding. Given that these tires are asymmetric as well,
>>> > > it will be strictly forbidden to swap them round. The front
>>> > > tires, by contrast, will remain unaltered.
>>> > >
>>> > > 2) From the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards, the introduction of a
>>> > > new range of tires. The new tires will have a symmetrical
>>> > > structure, designed to guarantee maximum safety even without
>>> > > access to tire data – which however is essential for the optimal
>>> > > function of the more sophisticated 2013
>>> > tires.
>>> > > The tires that will be used for the Hungarian Grand Prix onwards
>>> > > will combine the characteristics of the 2012 tires with the
>>> > > performance of the
>>> > > 2013 compounds. Essentially, the new tires will have a structure,
>>> > > construction and belt identical to that of 2012, which ensured
>>> > > maximum performance and safety. The compounds will be the same as
>>> > > those used throughout 2013, which guaranteed faster lap times and
>>> > > a wider working range. This new specification, as agreed with the
>>> > > FIA, will be tested on-track together with the teams and their
>>> > > 2013 cars at Silverstone from July 17-19 in a session with the
>>> > > race drivers during the Young Driver
>>> > Test.
>>> > > These tests will contribute to the definitive development of the
>>> > > new
>>> > range
>>> > > of tires, giving teams the opportunity to carry out the
>>> > > appropriate
>>> > set-up
>>> > > work on their cars.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Read more:
>>> > > http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130702/f1/130709960#ixzz2Y01kYj
>>> > > D8
>>> > > Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on
>>> > > Twitter<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=crYS7cwFer3QPQacn9QLBk&u=Autow
>>> > > eek
>>> > > USA>
>>> > > | AutoweekUSA on
>>> > > Facebook<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=crYS7cwFer3QPQacn9QLBk&u=Auto
>>> > > wee
>>> > > kUSA
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Michael L. Shortt
>>> > > Savannah, Georgia
>>> > > www.michaelshortt.com
>>> > > michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> > > 912-232-9390
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>> > > Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> > > privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>> > > hereby
>>> > notified
>>> > > that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
>>> > > this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the
>>> > > sender that
>>> > you
>>> > > have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> > >
>>> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> > >
>>> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> > >
>>> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> > > DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >
>>> > DeTomaso mailing list
>>> > DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>> www.michaelshortt.com
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> 912-232-9390
>>>
>>>
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act,
>>> 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>> notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying
>>> of this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the
>>> sender that you have received this message in error, then delete it.
>>> Thank you _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah, Georgia
>> www.michaelshortt.com
>> michael at michaelshortt.com
>> 912-232-9390
>>
>>
>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act,
>> 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of
>> this communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender
>> that you have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank
>> you
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
> U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally privileged.  If
> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
> strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you have received
> this
> message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>