[DeTomaso] Oil Pump Pressure
shawkins777 at comcast.net
shawkins777 at comcast.net
Thu Jan 31 15:03:50 EST 2013
Yes but, people usually install a high volume pump after a rebuild. My point was to clarify that you can't install a high volume pump and increase flow without raising the pressure with all things being equal.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: shawkins777 at comcast.net
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:57:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pump Pressure
Until the clearances are too great for the pump to keep up with the leaks.
Otherwise, worn engines wouldn't show low oil pressure.
--
Will
On 1/31/13 2:55 PM, "shawkins777 at comcast.net" <shawkins777 at comcast.net>
wrote:
>Yes it would but, so would a standard volume pump.
>
>Steve
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>To: "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com>, thomas at hax.se,
>detomaso at poca.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:22:35 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pump Pressure
>
>But wouldn't a high volume pump more if the engine is worn - I.e. Greater
>tolerances? So, it should make up for loose bearings.
>
>BTW, my understanding is a 351C pump is already the largest of the
>classic
>Ford V8s, including the 429/460 and FEs.
>
>--
>Will
>
>
>
>
>
>On 1/31/13 11:51 AM, "Julian Kift" <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Yes, oil pumps have an internal relief spring, the high pressure pump
>>just uses a higher resistance spring. The actual pressure your gauge
>>reads is will be is a function of tolerances in your engine, oil
>>viscosity and location of the pressure sender.
>>
>>Julian
>>
>>
>>> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 08:33:13 +0100
>>> From: thomas at hax.se
>>> To: detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil Pump Pressure
>>>
>>> The "hi volume" refers to the amount of oil through the oil pump, not
>>> through the engine.
>>>
>>> If only the oil pump is changed, it will mean that more oil passes
>>> directly back into the oil pan through the bypass, and as a hi volume
>>> pump takes more power from the distributor gear, it means more wear
>>>and
>>> more heat.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> 2013-01-31 07:16, shawkins777 at comcast.net skrev:
>>> > I think the term Hi-volume is misleading, if nothing else is changed
>>>in an engine but the oil pump, you can't increase volume without
>>>increasing pressure.
>>> >
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> > To: detomaso at poca.com
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:07:46 PM
>>> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Oil Pump Pressure
>>> >
>>> > Worth sharing I thought.
>>> >
>>> > Michael Shortt
>>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> > From: "Ronak, T.P. (Timothy)
>>> >
>>> >> Karl,
>>> >> The term Hi-Output pump is not descriptive enough ... it is either
>>> > Hi-Volume
>>> >> standard pressure or Hi-Volume High Pressure. All you need for a
>>>stock
>>> > engine
>>> >> is 10 Pounds of pressure for each 1000 RPM of engine speed. Any
>>>pressure
>>> >> beyond that and you are introducing parasitic HP losses by forcing
>>>the
>>> > engine
>>> >> to work harder to spin the pump. The max pressure you need in a
>>>stock
>>> > 6000 RPM
>>> >> engine is 60 pounds when revving at 6000. I personally feel best
>>>with a
>>> >> minimum pressure at idle of 25-28 lbs. Unless you are starting the
>>>car at
>>> > -40
>>> >> or you have a mechanical interference inside the pump it is not
>>>likely you
>>> >> will twist off the oil pump drive or excessively wear the Cam
>>>distributer
>>> >> drive due to the additional loads generated by the High VOLUME
>>>pump.
>>> >>
>>> >> I am assuming you were sold a Hi-Volume standard pressure pump and
>>>the
>>> >> pressure bypass spring in the pump itself will ensure you do not
>>>create an
>>> >> excessive oil pressure in the system. I would leave the pump alone
>>>and
>>> > simply
>>> >> observe the oil pressure at startup. Ideally you want to run 10/30
>>>or
>>> >> equivalent synthetic oil and after breakin simply note the oil
>>>pressure
>>> > once
>>> >> warm and know that you may be able to mitigate some of the pressure
>>>by
>>> > running
>>> >> a thinner or lower viscosity oil like 10/20. I would not advocate a
>>>'0'
>>> > weight
>>> >> oil as the tolerances we run on the older V8 engines are too large
>>>and
>>> > require
>>> >> some oil wedge to develop to prevent bearing contact. It does
>>>depend
>>>on
>>> > the
>>> >> climate you intend to operate the car and weather there will be
>>>lots
>>>of
>>> > COLD
>>> >> sub zero starts.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sounded like you were looking for a recommendation ... so here it
>>>is
>>>...
>>> > If
>>> >> you are running a Hi-Volume pump leave it in and you will be fine
>>>just
>>> > look to
>>> >> observe that Oil pressure does not exceed 60 PSI when revving above
>>>4500
>>> > RPM
>>> >> and that you have at least 25 pounds at idle ... If you KNOW for a
>>>fact
>>> > you
>>> >> are running a HI-PRESSURE pump (Not a HIGH VOLUME pump) you might
>>>want to
>>> >> reconsider your choice. I can not imagine that you used a
>>>hi-pressure
>>> > pump as
>>> >> they are very difficult to obtain and are not easily purchasable
>>>from a
>>> > NON
>>> >> performance company as they are rarely stocked or sold so most
>>>likely the
>>> > term
>>> >> hi-output refers to Volume and NOT pressure. If you have your
>>>receipt for
>>> > the
>>> >> pump we could look up the part number and stop speculating and
>>>determine
>>> > which
>>> >> pump you have.
>>> >>
>>> >> Lunati actually recommended that I NOT EXCEED 60 PSI on my stroker
>>>motor
>>> > as
>>> >> they said it would create too much windage at RPM inside the
>>>crankcase
>>> > and it
>>> >> would make the oil rings work too hard to prevent oil in the
>>>combustion
>>> >> chamber and felt that the 58psi regulated Hi-Volume pump they sold
>>>me was
>>> > the
>>> >> best alternative next to a dry sump.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you have any questions feel free to call me.
>>> >> Best Regards,
>>> >> Tim Ronak
>>> >> Senior Services Consultant
>>> >> AkzoNobel Automotive and Aerospace Coatings NA
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
>>> Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
>>> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
>>>
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