[DeTomaso] Ethanol-just the facts Ma'am.

[Dave]

Indy cars switched to methanol for safety reasons after a couple of horrific pit incidents.
>>There were a few bad gasoline pit fires but the turning point to methanol came after/because of the Dave McDonald/Eddie Sachs crash in 1964, it happened on Lap 1.
>>This will provide a look at the worst Indianapolis gasoline fire. This fire, by the way, happened coming out of the fourth turn,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPinI7idHV8

panic over invisible flames seemed unsafe as well
>>This is a good point about methanol. A positive point was how easily and quickly a methanol fire would extinguish with plain water.
>>Indy car found a way to make burning methanol visible in daylight (they already knew burning methanol was visible at night), they added gasoline! Now the methanol burned with color.

IndyDave



-----Original Message-----
From: michael at michaelshortt.com [mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:37 PM
To: Ron Graves
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol-just the facts Ma'am.

Just as a point of order, Indy cars switched to methanol for safety reasons after a couple of horrific pit incidents.  Although growing up seeing people panic over invisible flames seemed unsafe as well.

Michael Shortt
On Jan 13, 2013 9:12 PM, "Ron Graves" <rlg1973dt at charter.net> wrote:

>
> As an engineer, it is troublesome to see so much misinformation and 
> misunderstanding perpetuated about ethanol (or any technology).  There 
> are volumes of test and analysis data.  No need for myths and folklore.
> Research on engines and fuels has been my profession for over 30 years.
> The following web site has pretty good information gounded in science 
> and engineering data.  I am not employed with the group that maintains 
> this site.  One needs to dig a few levels into it to find E15 etc.  
> The site also explains why the US is interested in ethanol, or 
> renewable fuels in general.
>
> http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/
>
> E15 is one of the most heavily tested new fuels ever proposed, but not 
> my personal favorite path to less petrol dependence.  My organization 
> was directly involved in the test programs.  There are huge volumes of 
> data for an interested and patient reader.  The reports have executive 
> summaries for the less-patient, which would include me.  EPA made
> rulings on E15 based on their interpretation of the data.   It is not
> legal to use in Panteras (too old), boats, string trimmers, etc.  
> There are about 9 million flex fuel vehicles out there that could use 
> ethanol up to 85% with no problem.  The loss of "tank mileage" with 
> ethanol is just a matter that it has less energy content per gallon. 
> About 3% loss for E10 vs E0, and about 27% loss for E85. Eventually, 
> the high octane number of ethanol could support more powerful and 
> efficient engines to partially offset this.  (Indy car series uses 
> ethanol fuel).  Brazil mandated ethanol as a path to energy 
> independence years ago, and it continues today.  USA produces about 2x 
> as much ethanol as Brazil, but leaves more to free market.  Henry Ford 
> considered ethanol an excellent fuel, but not widely available in his 
> peak time. Take time to read the science and engineering reports.  The news media usually gets things
> wrong, and are usually just selling controversy.   Panteras even predate
> the introduction of E10 (around 1980), so some incompatibility not 
> surprising.  But I hope none of our Pantera family are driving around 
> with 50-year-old fuel hoses.  I use E0 in my oldest cars when I can 
> find it.
>
> Keep the shiny-side up and the rubber-side down.
> Ron
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>