[DeTomaso] Ethanol-just the facts Ma'am.

[Denny Morse]

Taking the total CO2 footprint into account to produce Ethanol, the cost to
pay farmers to plant it, harvest it, and transport it, plus the fact that
the corn is not available for food it is not cost effective. When you add
on the tax-payer farm subsidies to offset the cost of Ethanol we find that
natural gas is a cheaper alternative in terms of cost and CO2 footprint.

Denny
----

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 6:37 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just as a point of order, Indy cars switched to methanol for safety reasons
> after a couple of horrific pit incidents.  Although growing up seeing
> people panic over invisible flames seemed unsafe as well.
>
> Michael Shortt
> On Jan 13, 2013 9:12 PM, "Ron Graves" <rlg1973dt at charter.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > As an engineer, it is troublesome to see so much misinformation and
> > misunderstanding perpetuated about ethanol (or any technology).  There
> > are volumes of test and analysis data.  No need for myths and folklore.
> > Research on engines and fuels has been my profession for over 30 years.
> > The following web site has pretty good information gounded in science
> > and engineering data.  I am not employed with the group that maintains
> > this site.  One needs to dig a few levels into it to find E15 etc.  The
> > site also explains why the US is interested in ethanol, or renewable
> > fuels in general.
> >
> > http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/
> >
> > E15 is one of the most heavily tested new fuels ever proposed, but not
> > my personal favorite path to less petrol dependence.  My organization
> > was directly involved in the test programs.  There are huge volumes of
> > data for an interested and patient reader.  The reports have executive
> > summaries for the less-patient, which would include me.  EPA made
> > rulings on E15 based on their interpretation of the data.   It is not
> > legal to use in Panteras (too old), boats, string trimmers, etc.  There
> > are about 9 million flex fuel vehicles out there that could use ethanol
> > up to 85% with no problem.  The loss of “tank mileage” with ethanol is
> > just a matter that it has less energy content per gallon. About 3% loss
> > for E10 vs E0, and about 27% loss for E85. Eventually, the high octane
> > number of ethanol could support more powerful and efficient engines to
> > partially offset this.  (Indy car series uses ethanol fuel).  Brazil
> > mandated ethanol as a path to energy independence years ago, and it
> > continues today.  USA produces about 2x as much ethanol as Brazil, but
> > leaves more to free market.  Henry Ford considered ethanol an excellent
> > fuel, but not widely available in his peak time. Take time to read the
> > science and engineering reports.  The news media usually gets things
> > wrong, and are usually just selling controversy.   Panteras even predate
> > the introduction of E10 (around 1980), so some incompatibility not
> > surprising.  But I hope none of our Pantera family are driving around
> > with 50-year-old fuel hoses.  I use E0 in my oldest cars when I can find
> > it.
> >
> > Keep the shiny-side up and the rubber-side down.
> > Ron
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