[DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel

Bill Lewis lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 13 19:45:57 EST 2013


Because this applies to ALL politicians, I can freely say:  Whether it is E-10, E-15, or E-100, is going to depend on who puts the most money in the CROOKS pocketbooks!!!--------Bill (boy, America is screwed) Lewis

> From: rgg at gregorycook.com
> To: pantera928 at bellsouth.net; detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 00:12:35 +0000
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> 
> I run virtually nothing but E-10 in my because it's the only kind of gas you get around here and in most US gas stations for matter. I don't think E-15 is on the market yet. The EPA has been reviewing a petition by the Ethanol producers to allow up to 15% ethanol to be blended into gas but I don't think a ruling has been issued or if it has it hasn't hit the market place yet. As far as problems I haven't had any I can attribute to fuel, but as has been discussed in this thread it doesn't have the same BTU content of the "real" gas.
> 
> Gray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of pantera928
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:12 PM
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sent out an email yesterday asking about experiences with using e-10 and e-15 under the tile of "Ethanol gasoline" but have not received one response. Did you get it? I continue to see the topics of how much is costs to make ethanol, how it lowers octane and how a car senses ethanol debated under this thread so I know the list is active. I guess either my email did not get received or everyone runs pure gas and has never had an ethanol related failure or maybe, I have somehow pissed off everyone on this list. Comments?
> 
> --- On Sun, 1/13/13, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> To: rgg at gregorycook.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Date: Sunday, January 13, 2013, 1:30 PM
> 
> 
> The flexifuel cars sold here do handle anything. You can fill up with straight gas or E85 regardless of what is in the tank before and how much is left in the tank of the old fuel.
> 
> Tomas
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Gray Gregory [rgg at gregorycook.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2013 5:45:59 PM
> To: Tomas Gunnarsson; spkorb at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> 
> I wouldn't assume the flex fuel sys can handle anything from 0 to 85% ethanol. I don't know but since there is no option that I'm aware of to buy say E-50 it's more likely just be an either or program. Here in the states virtually all of our "standard" gasoline is E-10 these days. The only other available ethanol blend I've ever seen sold is the E-85. Of course if you mixed part tank of one w/ a part tank of the other I guess you could get something in the middle so maybe I'm all wrong there....
> As far as how it knows what you filled up with I have no idea, but might it just be as simple as measuring the weight of the fuel??
> 
> Gray
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of Tomas Gunnarsson
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:06 AM
> To: spkorb at gmail.com
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> 
> If a flexifuel car can use anything from 0 to 85% E it seems more likely that you simply have a more flexible table or whatever it is to cope with all situations. My thinking...
> 
> Tomas
> 
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Sean Korb [spkorb at gmail.com]
> Sent: 13/1/2013 3:50:02 PM
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> 
> I thought so to, but you have to know *which* closed loop system to measure and calculate new tables. Ethanol only needs 9 parts oxygen for stoch (why it takes more ethanol than gasoline for the same volumetric
> power) and gasoline needs 12. I think diesel takes 18 so now everybody's going to want to put a Powerstroke in their Pantera ;) Even a wideband
> O2 sensor is going to be *way* off when you go that far lean or that far rich. Putting a lot of ethanol in the tank will be quite a shock to any EFI system unless you give it a hint.
> 
> Honestly though, I'm just spitballing.
> 
> sean
> 
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:49 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se> wrote:
> > Isn't it as easy as letting the closed loop regulation adapt the
> richness of
> > the combustion process? I understand that it may be quicker to detect
> what's
> > going into the process but eventually the analysis of the output
> (exhaust)
> > will make the system adjust to the same result out.
> >
> > Tomas
> >
> > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> > From: Will Kooiman [will.kooiman at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13/1/2013 3:11:05 AM
> > To: spkorb at gmail.com; detomaso at poca.com
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> >
> > Well said. Choice is part of what makes the free market system work.
> And
> > that means choice on a level playing ground too, where one choice is
> not
> > heavily subsidized over another.
> >
> > I had a friend tell me recently that the fuel economy is much worse
> when
> > he burns E85 in his flex fuel vehicle (Ford, but I forgot the model).
> His
> > explanation was that the computer recognized the higher alcohol
> content,
> > so it over adjusted. I'm not saying his analysis is right or wrong.
> I'm
> > just repeating what he said. It at least sounds reasonable.
> >
> > Does anyone know how flex fuel vehicles "know" the alcohol content?
> I'm
> > assuming there is a sensor in the tank, but how would it work?
> Specific
> > gravity? I guess I could google it.
> >
> > On 1/12/13 6:19 PM, "Sean Korb" <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>I work for a major international agriculture seed and chemical 
> >>supplier concern. Ethanol production has a very significant impact on 
> >>our bottom line and we provide a number of attractive products making 
> >>a lot of progress to get the BTU tradeoff near unity. Invest in us 
> >>since our stock price only seems to rise so our shareholders are 
> >>pretty happy with this. The future in this space is pretty bright 
> >>indeed and the technology is quite exciting.
> >>
> >>But it's getting very very hard for me to fine 100% gasoline in my 
> >>area and almost all my cars and lawn implements are negatively 
> >>impacted by this (my rubber hoses and O rings have turned to goo).
> >>What I would *really* like is choice and then we could make educated 
> >>purchases in fuel markets.
> >>
> >>sean
> >>
> >>On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Being a farmer I appreciate everything the government does in the
> farm
> >>> subsidy area. Being a driver not so much so.
> >>>
> >>> My grocery getter gets 8 percent less mileage on Ethanol blended 10 
> >>> percent. Everything else I have is using diesel, gasoline, or
> Propane.
> >>> 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of 
> >>> ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. Every time you make
> 1
> >>> gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu.
> >>>
> >>> Government subsidies lower the price artificially. Government
> subsidies
> >>> represent about $4.18 per gallon. The 131,00 BTUs used are from oil 
> >>> and it uses about 1/50th of an acre of corn (on a good year) to
> produce
> >>> a gallon of Ethanol. Corn is hard on the ground and require a high 
> >>> input of fertilizer. Nitrogen fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides 
> >>> are all made from fossil fuels, as is the diesel fuel, gasoline,
> LPG,
> >>> natural gas, electricity, transportation and irrigation used to grow
> and
> >>> transport the corn. Water input is also high but it is either
> provided
> >>> naturally or not, in my case I can't afford irrigation.
> >>>
> >>> If I was still actively farming I would stop growing grass for
> cattle
> >>> and start growing corn for cars.
> >>>
> >>> To late smarter,
> >>> jerry knotts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1/10/2013 11:28 AM, Dick Koch wrote:
> >>>> Roland, even with the diverse opinions on the affects of Ethanol on 
> >>>>pre-ethanol diluted fuel vehicles and equipment, I know we all can 
> >>>>agree that the price of Frito's has increased with the increased use 
> >>>>of
> corn
> >>>> based ethanol.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dick Koch - Atlanta
> >>>> On 1/10/2013 11:37 AM, Roland Jaeckel wrote:
> >>>>> We have 10 percent Ethanol over here without any issues in any
> car.
> >>>>> I think the swedes have up to 85 percent.
> >>>>> Roland Jaeckel
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Koch"
> <arkoch at earthlink.net>
> >>>>> To: <detomaso at poca.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:13 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> While the use of Ethanol diluted fuel has been discussed before, 
> >>>>>>folks may be interested in viewing this video on the use of the 
> >>>>>>Ethanol "enriched" fuel being pushed by the EPA.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From my standpoint, I would not use any Ethanol enriched fuel,
> not
> >>>>>>only
> >>>>>> in my Pantera, but any car or other equipment, such as generators
> or
> >>>>>> lawn equipment. A couple of web sites I use to identify Ethanol
> free
> >>>>>> fuel are:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://pure-gas.org/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.htapps.ethanolfr
> eega
> >>>>>>s&hl=en
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dick Koch
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
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> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
> <http://www.spkorb.org/>
> <http://www.spkorb.org/> 
> >>'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> #1382
> >>"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller "Computers 
> >>are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso 
> >>_______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> --
> Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org <http://www.spkorb.org/>  <http://www.spkorb.org/>
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso _______________________________________________
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