[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 114, Issue 17
Tom Shinrock
tmshinro at aol.com
Tue Dec 17 17:13:52 EST 2013
Won't Si cars become eligible in a couple of years for the 25 year exemption for importing previously non-compliant cars into the US?
Tom
5186
-----Original Message-----
From: rimovp <rimovp at gmail.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Cc: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 3:55 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 114, Issue 17
I would sell my house for one, but then again I live in a shack a little bit
bigger than the one Steve Martin lived in while filming the Jerk. With that said
$200 is not far off. And you bet you can import one into the U.S. You can import
in into the U.S. with out it's engine as a styling exercise. The engine can be
shipped separately and the joined with the car after an allotted time and the
register(state specifics come into play here) as an historic engineering study.
May take up to 6 years but it can be done.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 17, 2013, at 11:00 AM, detomaso-request at poca.com wrote:
>
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> Daily Detomaso List Digest
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Market price for a very good Pantera si? (J?rgen M. Wilms)
> 2. Re: Market price for a very good Pantera si? (Charles McCall)
> 3. Market price for a very good Pantera si? (J?rgen M. Wilms)
> 4. Re: Market price for a very good Pantera si? (Julian Kift)
> 5. Re: Market price for a very good Pantera si? (Charles McCall)
> 6. Really Hot Header (sean mundy)
> 7. Re: Really Hot Header (michael at michaelshortt.com)
> 8. Re: Really Hot Header (sean mundy)
> 9. Re: Really Hot Header (Asa Jay Laughton)
> 10. Re: Nurburgring Pantera (Pantdino)
> 11. Re: Nurburgring Pantera (Pantdino)
> 12. Re: Really Hot Header (Jerry Knotts)
> 13. Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY)
> (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 14. Re: Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY) (John Taphorn)
> 15. Re: Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY) (Sean Korb)
> 16. Re: Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY)
> (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
> 17. Re: Really Hot Header (gow2 at rc-tech.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 20:49:15 +0100
> From: "J?rgen M. Wilms" <juergen.wilms at cox.net>
> To: detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
> Message-ID: <3EAED44A-6693-43C4-9D0B-5985B23E5274 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I am in a Pantera si and have been alerted to a low-mileage, original, car.
What does everyone here think is the current market value for a very good
Pantera 5si ?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:11:21 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: '"J?rgen M. Wilms"' <juergen.wilms at cox.net>, <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
> Message-ID: <046b01cefa9a$fe5b7fc0$fb127f40$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I would be curious to know what people say, if anything.
>
> There have been very few that have changed hands in the past few years, so
> it is hard to talk about "market price".
>
> Panteras in general have gone up in price a LOT lately, so it would be
> interesting to see what a Pantera Si sells for. I would think that it would
> sell for whatever the previous owner and future owner are willing to accept
> - I am not sure if there are sufficient data points to make sales
> relevant..
>
>
>
> Charles McCall
> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of "J?rgen M.
> Wilms"
> Sent: lunes, 16 de diciembre de 2013 20:49
> To: detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>
> I am in a Pantera si and have been alerted to a low-mileage, original, car.
> What does everyone here think is the current market value for a very good
> Pantera 5si ?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:26:55 +0100
> From: "J?rgen M. Wilms" <juergen.wilms at cox.net>
> To: detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
> Message-ID: <0E0CE796-BAED-47A5-B8EA-2A4C8D2F6D35 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I am interested in a Pantera si and have been alerted to a low-mileage,
original, car. What does everyone here think is the current market value for a
very good Pantera 5si ?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:35:32 -0800
> From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> To: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>, '\"J?rgen M. Wilms\"'
> <juergen.wilms at cox.net>, De Tomaso List <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
> Message-ID: <BAY173-W32656185C105D95792C7F695D80 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There has been some similar conversation on the PI forum very recently i.e.
last few days, my estimate was north of US$200K given that franz Krump's Si sold
in 2010 for EU170K and recent GT5S prices. That was shot down by others as
apparently a) Franz repurchased the car for half of what he sold it for and b)
the Si market is a very limited by the fact that they are not (yet) admissible
to the US. All that said I'd still stand behind a US$175K plus number.
>
> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2290052674/m/5931037056?r=7851047056#7851047056
>
> Julian
>
>> From: charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> To: juergen.wilms at cox.net; detomaso at POCA.com
>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:11:21 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>>
>> I would be curious to know what people say, if anything.
>>
>> There have been very few that have changed hands in the past few years, so
>> it is hard to talk about "market price".
>>
>> Panteras in general have gone up in price a LOT lately, so it would be
>> interesting to see what a Pantera Si sells for. I would think that it would
>> sell for whatever the previous owner and future owner are willing to accept
>> - I am not sure if there are sufficient data points to make sales
>> relevant..
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles McCall
>> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
>> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of "J?rgen M.
>> Wilms"
>> Sent: lunes, 16 de diciembre de 2013 20:49
>> To: detomaso at POCA.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>>
>> I am in a Pantera si and have been alerted to a low-mileage, original, car.
>> What does everyone here think is the current market value for a very good
>> Pantera 5si ?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:49:36 +0100
> From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> To: "'Julian Kift'" <julian_kift at hotmail.com>, '\\"J?rgen M. Wilms\\"'
> <juergen.wilms at cox.net>, "'De Tomaso List'" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
> Message-ID: <047f01cefaa0$55ecd9a0$01c68ce0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> $175K would be a reasonable estimation, I?d think. That would be more or
> less my guess, I think, although a motived buyer or seller could raise or
> lower that price.
>
>
>
> I don?t think that Franz?s car would be a good example. When I talked to him
> he said that he wasn?t planning on selling it but that they basically
> offered him twice what he paid because they wanted THAT car, so he accepted.
> He then had to sell it in a hurry and was willing to take a loss. (why
> doesn?t that kind of thing ever happen with anything I try to buy or sell?)
>
>
>
> They are two data points, but each had extenuating circumstances. And
> perhaps demonstrate that a motivated buyer or seller could skew the price
>
>
>
> Charles McCall
> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
> <http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323>
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>
>
>
> From: Julian Kift [mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com]
> Sent: lunes, 16 de diciembre de 2013 21:36
> To: Charles McCall; '\"J?rgen M. Wilms\"'; De Tomaso List
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>
>
>
> There has been some similar conversation on the PI forum very recently i.e.
> last few days, my estimate was north of US$200K given that franz Krump's Si
> sold in 2010 for EU170K and recent GT5S prices. That was shot down by others
> as apparently a) Franz repurchased the car for half of what he sold it for
> and b) the Si market is a very limited by the fact that they are not (yet)
> admissible to the US. All that said I'd still stand behind a US$175K plus
> number.
>
> http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2290052674/m/5931037056?r=78510
> 47056#7851047056
>
> Julian
>
>
>> From: charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> To: juergen.wilms at cox.net; detomaso at POCA.com
>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:11:21 +0100
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>>
>> I would be curious to know what people say, if anything.
>>
>> There have been very few that have changed hands in the past few years, so
>> it is hard to talk about "market price".
>>
>> Panteras in general have gone up in price a LOT lately, so it would be
>> interesting to see what a Pantera Si sells for. I would think that it
> would
>> sell for whatever the previous owner and future owner are willing to
> accept
>> - I am not sure if there are sufficient data points to make sales
>> relevant..
>>
>>
>>
>> Charles McCall
>> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
>> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
>> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf Of "J?rgen M.
>> Wilms"
>> Sent: lunes, 16 de diciembre de 2013 20:49
>> To: detomaso at POCA.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Market price for a very good Pantera si?
>>
>> I am in a Pantera si and have been alerted to a low-mileage, original,
> car.
>> What does everyone here think is the current market value for a very good
>> Pantera 5si ?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:33:18 -0800
> From: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
> To: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID: <BLU177-W17E3856E9FC48FCC6BEC24BDDB0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thought I had all my engine problems behind me but now I got a new one.
>
> Started running poorly again after about 15min of driving. Won't idle,
backfires and barely runs.
>
> Try again next day and it starts but 15min later, crappy again.
>
> This weekend it was really hard to start cold but eventually I got it to run
for about 3-4 minutes
>
> by blipping the throttle a lot. Shut it off and smelled something burning.
>
> Opened the back and my left side header was glowing red. Right side header
was normal.
>
> My IR temp gun showed only 140 on the heads. Water and oil temp gauges were
barely reading.
>
> Any ideas on what could cause just one side Header to glow red hot so fast?
Thanks, Sean
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:06 -0500
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> To: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID:
> <CAEWtxWpJiNSeGPhkc2KxRG4FnO9=AcZutFqHs8wjSV9Vt7Or5A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Serious vacuum leak leaning out one side would be my guess.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:33 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thought I had all my engine problems behind me but now I got a new one.
>> Started running poorly again after about 15min of driving. Won't idle,
>> backfires and barely runs.
>> Try again next day and it starts but 15min later, crappy again.
>> This weekend it was really hard to start cold but eventually I got it to
>> run for about 3-4 minutes
>> by blipping the throttle a lot. Shut it off and smelled something
>> burning.
>> Opened the back and my left side header was glowing red. Right side
>> header was normal.
>> My IR temp gun showed only 140 on the heads. Water and oil temp
>> gauges were barely reading.
>> Any ideas on what could cause just one side Header to glow red hot so
>> fast? Thanks, Sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:44:38 -0800
> From: sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com>
> To: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Cc: "detomaso at poca.com" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID: <BLU177-W33595DD7DA5C805BB2A6CDBDDB0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Michael.
>
> I thought of that too but my A/F meter and sensor is connected to the left
side that got red hot. During my 4min run it was only reading 11-12.5. Just
about its normal condition.
>
> My first thought was my exhaust was plugged somehow. Have to get someone to
put there hand over the exhaust tips next time I can get it started.
>
>
>
>
> From: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
> CC: detomaso at poca.com
>
>
>
> Serious vacuum leak leaning out one side would be my guess.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:33 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thought I had all my engine problems behind me but now I got a new one.
> Started running poorly again after about 15min of driving. Won't idle,
backfires and barely runs.
> Try again next day and it starts but 15min later, crappy again.
> This weekend it was really hard to start cold but eventually I got it to run
for about 3-4 minutes
> by blipping the throttle a lot. Shut it off and smelled something burning.
> Opened the back and my left side header was glowing red. Right side header
was normal.
> My IR temp gun showed only 140 on the heads. Water and oil temp gauges were
barely reading.
> Any ideas on what could cause just one side Header to glow red hot so fast?
Thanks, Sean
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael L. Shortt
> Savannah, Georgia
> www.michaelshortt.com
> michael at michaelshortt.com
> 912-232-9390
>
>
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:40:20 -0800
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID: <52AFB994.30609 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:12:54 -0500 (EST)
> From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com, detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Nurburgring Pantera
> Message-ID: <8D0C8F5646D0E8B-A48-19049 at webmail-d236.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Great video! At 5:20 he's doing 229 kph =142 mph at 5900 rpm, or 24 mph /
1000 rpm. With presumably smaller than stock street diameter tires that sounds
about like stock final drive ratio, no? (Stock was 26mph / 1000 rpm)
>
> Jim Oddie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 15, 2013 8:44 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Nurburgring Pantera
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Surfing the internet I stumbled across this video, showing Dr Martin J?rgens
racing his well-known blue with white stripes Pantera at the Oldtimer Grand Prix
at the N?rburgring:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj5twj2FXFs
>
> Note that this is the 'new' course, not the old mountain course. The in-car
telemetry is interesting. I think he may have a taller 5th gear installed, as
the rpm drop between gears is fairly pronounced.
>
> There are links to other videos from previous years, different events etc. on
the side.
>
> This car is a standard USA L-model that was imported to Germany a few years
back, completely gutted, and turned into a race car by Willi Braun. His
company, De Tomaso Tuning, specializes in race-preparing Panteras and Mangustas,
and building killer street cars (no bling to be found here!) Here's his
company website:
>
> http://www.detomaso-tuning.de/index2.html
>
> Good stuff!
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 23:17:10 -0500 (EST)
> From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
> To: tmshinro at aol.com, detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Nurburgring Pantera
> Message-ID: <8D0C8F5FCED85EB-A48-1907C at webmail-d236.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> They take their vintage racing pretty seriously overseas.
> I was just reading over the race results of the Goodwood Revival in Classic
and Sportscar and they mention half a dozen crashes. At Monterey even spinning
out is a big no-no.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Shinrock <tmshinro at aol.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 16, 2013 8:56 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Nurburgring Pantera
>
>
> Here's another video of the same track with an in-car view from a BMW M1
dicing it out with a Pantera and Corvette. Looks like some pretty serious
vintage racing to me.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H8IJk3GkNk
>
> Tom
> 5186
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeLDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> To: detomaso <detomaso at POCA.com>
> Sent: Sun, Dec 15, 2013 10:44 pm
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Nurburgring Pantera
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Surfing the internet I stumbled across this video, showing Dr Martin J?rgens
racing his well-known blue with white stripes Pantera at the Oldtimer Grand Prix
at the N?rburgring:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj5twj2FXFs
>
> Note that this is the 'new' course, not the old mountain course. The in-car
telemetry is interesting. I think he may have a taller 5th gear installed, as
the rpm drop between gears is fairly pronounced.
>
> There are links to other videos from previous years, different events etc. on
the side.
>
> This car is a standard USA L-model that was imported to Germany a few years
back, completely gutted, and turned into a race car by Willi Braun. His
company, De Tomaso Tuning, specializes in race-preparing Panteras and Mangustas,
and building killer street cars (no bling to be found here!) Here's his
company website:
>
> http://www.detomaso-tuning.de/index2.html
>
> Good stuff!
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
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> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:21:01 -0600
> From: Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID: <52AFD12D.4080802 at galstar.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> If it is EFI - most of the new control systems have an O2 sensor on each
> side of the exhaust. On the older Ford modules ( 93 and up Mass air)
> the pulse is read at cylinder pulse delay for each cylinder by the O2
> sensor in each exhaust. This allows the ability to adjust each cylinder
> on the fly using the timing of the pulse to the O2. Most Mass air
> systems that I have dealt with use individual cylinder pulsing up to
> 2000 rpm and the bank, bank from there on up.
> This is not saying I always get it right.
>
> jerry knotts
>
>
>
>> On 12/16/2013 8:40 PM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
>> Plugged exhaust wouldn't let any gas out, or not enough anyway and it
>> will dilute the O2 sensor. I don't think that's your problem. It
>> sounds like a lean condition on that one side. Originally you didn't
>> specify you were using fuel injection I don't think. My first
>> reaction was a fuel or air problem manifesting itself after so many
>> minutes.
>>
>> However, now I'm thinking your O2 sensor has gone bad, but that
>> doesn't make sense entirely if only one side is getting super hot.
>> You'll need to do some more troubleshooting. Pull the plugs and read
>> them. Describe your intake and fuel delivery system. Give us a bit
>> more info.
>>
>> Asa Jay
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> & Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>
>>> On 12/16/2013 4:44 PM, sean mundy wrote:
>>> Thanks Michael.
>>> I thought of that too but my A/F meter and sensor is connected to the
>>> left side that got red hot. During my 4min run it was only reading
>>> 11-12.5. Just about its normal condition.
>>> My first thought was my exhaust was plugged somehow. Have to get
>>> someone to put there hand over the exhaust tips next time I can get
>>> it started.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> From: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:06 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
>>> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
>>> CC: detomaso at poca.com
>>>
>>> Serious vacuum leak leaning out one side would be my guess.
>>>
>>> Michael Shortt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:33 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com
>>> <mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thought I had all my engine problems behind me but now I got a
>>> new one.
>>> Started running poorly again after about 15min of driving. Won't
>>> idle, backfires and barely runs.
>>> Try again next day and it starts but 15min later, crappy again.
>>> This weekend it was really hard to start cold but eventually
>>> I got it to run for about 3-4 minutes
>>> by blipping the throttle a lot. Shut it off and smelled
>>> something burning.
>>> Opened the back and my left side header was glowing red. Right
>>> side header was normal.
>>> My IR temp gun showed only 140 on the heads. Water and oil temp
>>> gauges were barely reading.
>>> Any ideas on what could cause just one side Header to glow red
>>> hot so fast? Thanks, Sean
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>> www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com/>
>>> michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>> 912-232-9390
>>>
>>>
>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>> notified
>>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>>> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender
>>> that you
>>> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3658/6425 - Release Date: 12/16/13
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 04:09:14 -0500 (EST)
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY)
> Message-ID: <5ef21.45b00e52.3fe16eba at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Registration form for the three-day De Tomaso meeting in Modena next summer
> is attached. Infuriatingly, they planned it to conflict with the POCA Fun
> Rally....grrr....
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
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> From: Luca Sandri - MODENATUR <luca.sandri at modenatur.it>
> Subject: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA (ITALY)
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 09:25:23 +0100
> Size: 529891
> URL: <http://poca.com/pipermail/detomaso_poca.com/attachments/20131217/9dbd1cb4/attachment-0001.mht>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:18:48 -0600
> From: John Taphorn <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com>
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com, detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA
> (ITALY)
> Message-ID: <52B04F38.6090507 at kingwoodcable.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Mike
>
> Your remarks insinuate that whoever planned the DeTomaso event
> purposefully scheduled it to conflict with the POCA Fun Rally. Did you
> mean to imply that or are you simply frustrated that the events
> overlap? I certainly emphasize with the later.
>
> I would be at a loss as to understand why Santiago would purposefully
> choose to challenge POCA and it members who have treated him as a guest
> with of the Fun Rally with respect. That just doesn't make any sense.
>
> JT
>> On 12/17/2013 3:09 AM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Registration form for the three-day De Tomaso meeting in Modena next
>> summer is attached. Infuriatingly, they planned it to conflict with
>> the POCA Fun Rally....grrr....
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:26:16 -0500
> From: Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com>
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA
> (ITALY)
> Message-ID:
> <CABpzvs8mCkTHVUoBDEmCWhxJ3syXaX0NT8kd2-UeO-C6d9xd5g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I presume it didn't occur to them and planned it for the convenience
> of their friends and family. I don't often think of my European
> counterparts when I plan an event so I don't consider it a slight if
> they do not consult for their events. But... DeTomaso has a
> significant following in the US. Collaborating would have been very
> thoughtful.
>
> sean
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:18 AM, John Taphorn
> <jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com> wrote:
>> Mike
>>
>> Your remarks insinuate that whoever planned the DeTomaso event purposefully
>> scheduled it to conflict with the POCA Fun Rally. Did you mean to imply
>> that or are you simply frustrated that the events overlap? I certainly
>> emphasize with the later.
>>
>> I would be at a loss as to understand why Santiago would purposefully choose
>> to challenge POCA and it members who have treated him as a guest with of the
>> Fun Rally with respect. That just doesn't make any sense.
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 12/17/2013 3:09 AM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Registration form for the three-day De Tomaso meeting in Modena next summer
>> is attached. Infuriatingly, they planned it to conflict with the POCA Fun
>> Rally....grrr....
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> --
> Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:35:44 -0500 (EST)
> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com, detomaso at POCA.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fwd: 5TH DE TOMASO MEETING 2014, MODENA
> (ITALY)
> Message-ID: <37254.23419e34.3fe1d760 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> In a message dated 12/17/13 5 18 43, jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com writes:
>
>
>> Your remarks insinuate that whoever planned the DeTomaso event
>> purposefully scheduled it to conflict with the POCA Fun Rally.? Did you mean
to imply
>> that or are you simply frustrated that the events overlap?? I certainly
>> emphasize with the later.
>>
>> I would be at a loss as to understand why Santiago would purposefully
>> choose to challenge POCA and it members who have treated him as a guest with
of
>> the Fun Rally with respect.? That just doesn't make any sense.
>
>>>> Agreed.
>
> Judy McCartney spoke with Santiago many months ago and invited him to come
> to this year's Fun Rally. So they knew it was happening, knew the dates,
> and had been specifically invited to attend. Instead, they then (later)
> planned their own event, and chose the same weekend. I don't think it was
> done out of spite, but instead out of an utter disregard for what any De
Tomaso
> people do outside of Modena....
>
> Mike
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 12:42:22 -0600
> From: gow2 at rc-tech.net
> To: "Jerry Knotts" <knottsj at galstar.com>
> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
> Message-ID:
> <1a41d8de2b40ec1d09f2c8da626ae4a6.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
> Without knowing anything about what your problem is, a rich exhaust can
> cause a red hot header too. I found this out the hard way when I missed
> matched the header order in a set of headers I made. In my case the lack
> of back pressure allowed unspent fuel to burn in the header doubling my
> Exhaust Gas Temperature readings in most throttle settings.
>
> This was easy to tell. By removing the header, these tubes were sooted up
> charcoal black. These rich primaries also had metal discoloration where
> the others did not.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>>
>> If it is EFI - most of the new control systems have an O2 sensor on each
>> side of the exhaust. On the older Ford modules ( 93 and up Mass air)
>> the pulse is read at cylinder pulse delay for each cylinder by the O2
>> sensor in each exhaust. This allows the ability to adjust each cylinder
>> on the fly using the timing of the pulse to the O2. Most Mass air
>> systems that I have dealt with use individual cylinder pulsing up to
>> 2000 rpm and the bank, bank from there on up.
>> This is not saying I always get it right.
>>
>> jerry knotts
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12/16/2013 8:40 PM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
>>> Plugged exhaust wouldn't let any gas out, or not enough anyway and it
>>> will dilute the O2 sensor. I don't think that's your problem. It
>>> sounds like a lean condition on that one side. Originally you didn't
>>> specify you were using fuel injection I don't think. My first
>>> reaction was a fuel or air problem manifesting itself after so many
>>> minutes.
>>>
>>> However, now I'm thinking your O2 sensor has gone bad, but that
>>> doesn't make sense entirely if only one side is getting super hot.
>>> You'll need to do some more troubleshooting. Pull the plugs and read
>>> them. Describe your intake and fuel delivery system. Give us a bit
>>> more info.
>>>
>>> Asa Jay
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>> & Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>> ******************************
>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>
>>>> On 12/16/2013 4:44 PM, sean mundy wrote:
>>>> Thanks Michael.
>>>> I thought of that too but my A/F meter and sensor is connected to the
>>>> left side that got red hot. During my 4min run it was only reading
>>>> 11-12.5. Just about its normal condition.
>>>> My first thought was my exhaust was plugged somehow. Have to get
>>>> someone to put there hand over the exhaust tips next time I can get
>>>> it started.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:06 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Really Hot Header
>>>> To: seanmundy at hotmail.com
>>>> CC: detomaso at poca.com
>>>>
>>>> Serious vacuum leak leaning out one side would be my guess.
>>>>
>>>> Michael Shortt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 7:33 PM, sean mundy <seanmundy at hotmail.com
>>>> <mailto:seanmundy at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thought I had all my engine problems behind me but now I got a
>>>> new one.
>>>> Started running poorly again after about 15min of driving. Won't
>>>> idle, backfires and barely runs.
>>>> Try again next day and it starts but 15min later, crappy again.
>>>> This weekend it was really hard to start cold but eventually
>>>> I got it to run for about 3-4 minutes
>>>> by blipping the throttle a lot. Shut it off and smelled
>>>> something burning.
>>>> Opened the back and my left side header was glowing red. Right
>>>> side header was normal.
>>>> My IR temp gun showed only 140 on the heads. Water and oil temp
>>>> gauges were barely reading.
>>>> Any ideas on what could cause just one side Header to glow red
>>>> hot so fast? Thanks, Sean
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com <mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com>
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael L. Shortt
>>>> Savannah, Georgia
>>>> www.michaelshortt.com <http://www.michaelshortt.com/>
>>>> michael at michaelshortt.com <mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>> 912-232-9390
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
>>>> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
>>>> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>>> notified
>>>> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
>>>> communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender
>>>> that you
>>>> have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank you
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>>> Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3658/6425 - Release Date: 12/16/13
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>
>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
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> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 114, Issue 17
> *****************************************
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