[DeTomaso] NPC - jump starting a car

Tue Aug 27 10:31:57 EDT 2013

Lots of good info here, and I can add some of the reasons for why you do or
don't do some of the things mentioned.
Boosting car should not be running when connecting booster cables.
1.  Originally was due to lead/acid batteries give off hydrogen gas when
they are being charged, and a spark from connecting the booster cable could
cause an explosion.  This is correct.
2.  Once we went to non-vented batteries, the reason was it could cause a
surge that will damage delicate electronics.  I can't see that happening.
One of the biggest features of a battery is its ability to absorb any surges
and flatten out the voltage.  Any surge from connecting a boosting battery
will be absorbed by both batteries.  You cannot "push" amperage, and the
surge you get is amperage, not voltage.

If there is a draw on the battery, it is not likely going to be a short.  It
is something in the vehicle not turning off when the key is removed.  Most
common reason is a dome light, or trunk/under hood light.  Aftermarket sound
equipment not installed correctly is also fairly common.

In my experience (34 years licensed mechanic) the most common reason for a
vehicle not cranking, even when boosted, is due to bad battery cable
connections, either at battery end or vehicle end of cables.  Always remove
and clean cable connections before trying to boost.  Does not matter what
the connection looks like, you cannot see actual connection unless you
remove the cable.  
If you own a vehicle with a lead/acid top post battery, get yourself one of
those T shaped battery cable cleaner tools.  They come with two external
post scrapers( + and - posts are different size), and one internal cable
scraper.  My own preference is the tool with scrapers as opposed to the
tools with wire brush tools.

Be careful with battery chargers.  The cheap ones offer little protection
for the battery.  Don't leave a battery on a charger for more than 24 hours.
It is best to get a float charger like "Battery Tender".  Those chargers
will stop charging once battery is fully charged, and will float between
charging and maintaining modes as battery requires.  Charging continuously
will damage a battery.

doug

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On Behalf
Of Boyd Casey
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 10:19 AM
To: Charles McCall
Cc: detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - jump starting a car

The so called advantages of an Optima battery will not improve it's ability
to start a car compared to a "cheap" battery if they both have the same
Cranking amp specifications and charge level.  You should never try to jump
start a car with a battery (in the car providing the jump) unless the
battery has a full charge. I have been told that when you jump start a car
the car providing the jump should not be running. You want the heaviest
gauge jumper cables you can find ( thinner cables offer more resistance) you
also should use the shortest cables that will do the job ( same reason
longer cables offer more resistance.). One reason the battery that would not
start the car with jumpers but would start the car when installed is
probably due to the combined effect of the added resistance of the jumper
cables, The connection with jumper cables is not as good as with a battery
attached to the terminal connections (better connection and better ground)
It sounds like even though your car started the first day your battery that
was trickle charged was on it;s last legs. If it had been fully charged (
24 hours at a 2 amp charge rate should be sufficient to fully charge
anything but a U-boat LOL! Also a battery that's good would have held it's
charge for  the weekend  (and longer) once you had charged it and run it for
awhile ( unless there are other problems) like a short that drains the
battery even when the car is turned off, a battery that needs service ( if
it is an old fashioned wet cell and was in need of water) with a wet cell
battery you can check the specific gravity of the battery acid and see if it
needs to be serviced. When the car starts with just the change to a new
battery it is an indication that 1. your old battery is not fully charged or
2. if you have attempted to charge  and it is in the  state to accept a
charge (in the case of a serviceable  battery , like a wet cell that is not
sealed) and it doesn't fully charge then  you need a new battery. If the
battery has crapped out sooner then is considered normal you need to find
out if there is a problem that is damaging the battery ( an alternator or
voltage regulator that is allowing the battery to become over charged ( this
will shorten a batteries life substantially) a short that continually drains
the battery as mentioned earlier ( completely draining a battery especially
repeatedly will also shorten a batteries life)  I am not an expert in
automotive electrical systems but in my many years of personal experience I
have found that in most cases were a car won't crank due to a weak battery
even with jumper cables it is usually due to poor connections from the host
battery ( host car is the car receiving the
jump) to the cars own battery connections ( sometimes the connectors are
cracked and you can't tell until you remove them to clean them, or corrosion
on the terminals is interfering with a good connection, you have poor
quality jumper cables and or a bad connection. If it is not the host cars or
jumper cables connections then it is usually that the host car's battery is
to weak to crank even with a jump. The easiest test of this is to pop in a
battery that you know is good. ( don' take a battery from a 4 cylinder Kia
and expect it to start your 7 liter Dually) You have to be using a battery
with the proper amount of cranking amps required to start the engine in the
car you are trying to jump.
Boyd

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Charles McCall
<charlesmccall at gmail.com>wrote:

> Update - I took the battery out of the Pantera and put it in the dead 
> car and it fired right up.
>
>
>
> So something was wrong with the jumper cable connection but I don't 
> know what. Negative to negative, positive to positive, it really isn't 
> that tricky, right?
>
>
>
> Will a trickle charger eventually charge a completely discharged battery?
> It's a normal, cheap car battery not an optima-whatever.
>
>
>
> Thanks all!
>
>
>
> Charles McCall
> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
>  <http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323>
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>
>
>
> From: Charles McCall [mailto:CharlesMcCall at gmail.com]
> Sent: domingo, 25 de agosto de 2013 20:00
> To: detomaso at poca.com
> Subject: NPC - jump starting a car
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
>
>
> The car in question hadn't been started in literally 3 months. I went 
> to start it on Thursday and the battery was discharged. I hooked a 
> trickle charger up to it overnight, and Friday morning the car started
just fine.
>
>
>
> I drove the car during the day, had no trouble starting it on the 4-5 
> occasions I had to start it.
>
>
>
> Today, Sunday, two days later the car wouldn't start again (I was 
> going to move it to hook the trickle charger up to it and let it 
> charge for a week or however long it takes to completely charge). I 
> got some jumper cables and am trying to start the car but it won't 
> turn over.
>
>
>
> When I turn the key, the interior light goes out which indicates to me 
> that the battery is discharged. I hooked up the jumper cables and the 
> car still won't turn over (and the interior light goes out).
>
>
>
> If I turn the headlights on on the car with the dead battery, I can 
> see that the lights get noticeably brighter when connecting the jumper 
> cables so I have to believe that current is reaching the battery. What 
> can possibly be the problem?
>
>
>
> If the connection weren't good, then the headlights wouldn't get brighter.
> But on the other hand, if the connection were good then the interior 
> light wouldn't go out when I try engaging the starter, right?
>
>
>
> This is kind of a problem as now the dead car is blocking the good car 
> from getting out of the garage (and therefore going to work tomorrow!)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Charles McCall
> Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe
> 1985 DeTomaso Pantera #9375
>  <http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323>
> http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323
>
>
>
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>
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