[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

JPEP33 at aol.com JPEP33 at aol.com
Wed Apr 3 10:57:47 EDT 2013


No Larry, we are talking about cars not................. I think it's time  
for your meds.
 
JP-Texas
 
 
In a message dated 4/3/2013 9:06:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
larry at ohiotimecorp.com writes:

<<  I've never had to raise the back either.>>

I have often gotten  some pleasure from doing just that. Now when it starts
to expel air I  generally step aside.



Larry (better now) -  Cleveland


-----Original Message-----
From:  detomaso-bounces at poca.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com] On 
Behalf
Of  shawkins777 at comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:07 PM
To: Kirby  Schrader
Cc: detomaso at POCA.com list
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the  cooling system

I've never had to raise the back either. 

Steve  

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Schrader"  <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> 
To: "detomaso at POCA.com list"  <detomaso at poca.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 7:02:05 PM  
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system 


Since  owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the car
up in  the back to get the air out of the system…. 
Never had a problem.  

Oh, well…. 

FWIW, 
Kirby 


On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11  PM, michael at michaelshortt.com
<michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:  

> WTF? Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot  water? 
> 
> There is only one proven way to get the air out the  system, jacking up 
the

> rear. It is this very procedure or lack  thereof that gave our cars an 
> overheating reputation that we still  fight to this day. 
> 
> There is no need to reinvent this  procedure. 
> 
> I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay  forward brass radiator, 
> siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless  hard pipes with a dual 
electric

> fan on the back side of the  radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and 
2/3 
> distiled water with one  16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix. I live 
in

> Savannah,  Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with 
90%

>  humidity. 
> After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car  would overheat
would 
> be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while  reving the engine past 3,000 
> rpms. It is all I can do to hit 180 and  in more temporate weather 170 
> degrees. 
> Aside from my coolant  mix ( which is the same ratio used for light
aircraft 
> ) I would  say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the 
>  radiator cleaned/boiled. 
> 
> I would encourage you to have your  radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of 
tap

> water with city additives  like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a 
> white build up which  can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not 
block 
> off entire rows.  
> 
> Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the  difference
for 
> yourself. 
> 
> Michael Shortt 
>  On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote:  
> 
>> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would  think air in the 
>> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the  rear in the air, and 
>> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing"  the water ahead of the air?
Why 
>> not raise the front? Years ago  I had an "explosion" in the engine bay as
I 
>> was putting down a  city street. A giant white plume of "white". I 
thought

>> the  engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked, it
was  
>> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that  had 
>> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the  motor, and
he 
>> said "it burped". My question was, "how often  can I expect this baby to 
>> burp?" never got an answer, and it has  not happened since. Obviously, 
the

>> pressure exceeded the cap's  capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another 
>> thing: why not use a  STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump, pump
up 
>> the  system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator 
at  
>> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles  to rise.
I 
>> guess this will be batted around forever. I do,  however, like John 
>> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an  oil temp gauge is
imperative, 
>> even though I don't have one  yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and
overflow 
>> caps, Fluidyne,  SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc. and my blood pressure 
is

>>  synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an  
email

>> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree  weather (at an 
>> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling  fans.Sounds like a dream 
>> (goal). 
>> On Apr 1, 2013, at  11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote: 
>> 
>>> Mike,  
>>> 
>>> Air will not collect like that in the engine  as long as there's enough 
>>> water in the system to allow the  water pump to push water into the 
>>> block. As long as the pump  has water supply to fill the block and the 
>>> thermostat neck  high enough to run over into the tube going away from 
>>> the  engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will 
be  
>>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl  tank if 
you

>>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the  rear air pocket will be in 
>>> the thermostat outlet tube if the  system is plumbed in a reasonably 
>>> conventional way.  
>>> 
>>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the  car jacked up is however 
a 
>>> way to ensure that the engine  contains a certain amount of air. Hence 
my

>>> surprise when I  over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the 
>>> system.  
>>> 
>>> Tomas 
>>> 
>>>  <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> 
>>> From:  MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com] 
>>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54  AM 
>>> To: guson at home.se 
>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com  
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 4/1/13  13 39 2, guson at home.se writes: 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I beg to differ. As soon as  you start driving the car it will 
>>> see G-forces much greater  than those induced by jacking or parking on 
a 
>>> slope. There is  no possibility that air would be trapped in the 
straight

>>>  under car tubes after that. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>>>> No. Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the  pipes before you 
>>> started driving, will now be trapped in your  engine! And you're 
>>> driving! 
>>> 
>>>  And overheating. 
>>> 
>>> The point of the exercise  is to purge the system of air (as much as 
>>> possible) *before*  you start driving it. 
>>> 
>>> There was a  significant incident that happened many years ago to a new 
>>>  Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere. He bought his  
>>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid  Euro GTS, 
and 
>>> only paid $13K or something like that. One side  was beat up because it 
>>> had been parked in a fenced lot right  against the fence, and the wind 
>>> had whipped the fence and  battered the side of the car. But the damage 
>>> was all rather  trivial. 
>>> 
>>> Walter knew a lot about cars and  nothing about Panteras. First thing 
he 
>>> did when he got it  home was to change all the fluids--water and oil. 
He 
>>> drained  all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off 
until  
>>> the tank was full, on level ground. He then closed the cap,  and took 
>>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right  outside his 
office. 
>>> 
>>> Walter was/is a maniac.  Great guy, but a maniac. He wanted to see how 
>>> fast it would  go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no 
>>> place  for cops to hide. Traffic was light so he just ran it up to 
>>>  redline in 5th gear. Having a great time, eyes on the road of course,  
>>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled  the 
>>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged.  
>>> 
>>> BOOM!!!!!! The engine let go like Krakatoa!  
>>> 
>>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall  Pantera, did he learn the 
>>> importance of the proper  filling/bleeding procedure.... 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> I agree that you want to bleed the  radiator and top up at the 
>>> rear filler but the jacking is a  waste of time. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything,  and not doing it 
has

>>> led to at least minor overheating  problems in the past. And the manual 
>>> directs you to do it.  
>>> 
>>> So why WOULDN'T you do it? 
>>>  
>>> Mike 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>
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