[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

Wed Apr 3 09:35:13 EDT 2013

At the risk of asking a silly question, how do you know it is "too hot"?
Temp gauge reading? Boiling over?

On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Jim Gray <grayjim at att.net> wrote:

> On the other hand, I have jacked mine sky-high, changed radiators, changed
> fans,
> changed thermostats (repeatedly), changed entine timing and *still* have
> problems with running too warm in the summer.
>
> Jim Gray
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> To: "detomaso at POCA.com list" <detomaso at poca.com>
> Sent: Tue, April 2, 2013 7:02:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
>
>
> Since owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the car
> up in
> the back to get the air out of the system….
> Never had a problem.
>
> Oh, well….
>
> FWIW,
> Kirby
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > WTF?  Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot water?
> >
> > There is only one proven way to get the air out the system, jacking up
> the
> > rear.  It is this very procedure or lack thereof that gave our cars an
> > overheating reputation that we still fight to this day.
> >
> > There is no need to reinvent this procedure.
> >
> > I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay forward brass radiator,
> > siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless hard pipes with a dual
> electric
> > fan on the back side of the radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and 2/3
> > distiled water with one 16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix.  I live
> in
> > Savannah, Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with
> 90%
> > humidity.
> > After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car would overheat
> would
> > be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while reving the engine past 3,000
> > rpms.  It is all I can do to hit 180 and in more temporate weather 170
> > degrees.
> > Aside from my coolant mix ( which is the same ratio used for light
> aircraft
> > )  I would say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the
> > radiator cleaned/boiled.
> >
> > I would encourage you to have your radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of
> tap
> > water with city additives like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a
> > white build up which can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not block
> > off entire rows.
> >
> > Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the difference
> for
> > yourself.
> >
> > Michael Shortt
> > On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would think air in the
> >> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the rear in the air, and
> >> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing" the water ahead of the air?
> Why
> >> not raise the front? Years ago I had an "explosion" in the engine bay
> as I
> >> was putting down a city street. A giant white plume of "white". I
> thought
> >> the engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked, it
> was
> >> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that had
> >> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the motor,
> and he
> >> said "it burped". My question was, "how often can I expect this baby to
> >> burp?" never got an answer, and it has not happened since. Obviously,
> the
> >> pressure exceeded the cap's capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another
> >> thing: why not use a STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump, pump
> up
> >> the system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator at
> >> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles to
> rise. I
> >> guess this will be batted around forever. I do, however, like John
> >> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an oil temp gauge is
> imperative,
> >> even though I don't have one yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and
> overflow
> >> caps, Fluidyne, SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc.  and my blood pressure
> is
> >> synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an
> email
> >> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree weather (at an
> >> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling fans.Sounds like a dream
> >> (goal).
> >> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> Air will not collect like that in the engine as long as there's enough
> >>> water in the system to allow the water pump to push water into the
> >>> block. As long as the pump has water supply to fill the block and the
> >>> thermostat neck high enough to run over into the tube going away from
> >>> the engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will be
> >>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl tank if
> you
> >>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the rear air pocket will be in
> >>> the thermostat outlet tube if the system is plumbed in a reasonably
> >>> conventional way.
> >>>
> >>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the car jacked up is however a
> >>> way to ensure that the engine contains a certain amount of air. Hence
> my
> >>> surprise when I over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the
> >>> system.
> >>>
> >>> Tomas
> >>>
> >>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
> >>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54 AM
> >>> To: guson at home.se
> >>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 4/1/13 13 39 2, guson at home.se writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      I beg to differ. As soon as you start driving the car it will
> >>> see G-forces much greater than those induced by jacking or parking on a
> >>> slope. There is no possibility that air would be trapped in the
> straight
> >>> under car tubes after that.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> No.  Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the pipes before you
> >>> started driving, will now be trapped in your engine!  And you're
> >>> driving!
> >>>
> >>> And overheating.
> >>>
> >>> The point of the exercise is to purge the system of air (as much as
> >>> possible) *before* you start driving it.
> >>>
> >>> There was a significant incident that happened many years ago to a new
> >>> Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere.  He bought his
> >>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid Euro GTS, and
> >>> only paid $13K or something like that.  One side was beat up because it
> >>> had been parked in a fenced lot right against the fence, and the wind
> >>> had whipped the fence and battered the side of the car.  But the damage
> >>> was all rather trivial.
> >>>
> >>> Walter knew a lot about cars and nothing about Panteras.  First thing
> he
> >>> did when he got it home was to change all the fluids--water and oil.
> He
> >>> drained all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off until
> >>> the tank was full, on level ground.  He then closed the cap, and took
> >>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right outside his office.
> >>>
> >>> Walter was/is a maniac.  Great guy, but a maniac.  He wanted to see how
> >>> fast it would go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no
> >>> place for cops to hide.  Traffic was light so he just ran it up to
> >>> redline in 5th gear.  Having a great time, eyes on the road of course,
> >>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled the
> >>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged.
> >>>
> >>> BOOM!!!!!!  The engine let go like Krakatoa!
> >>>
> >>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall Pantera, did he learn the
> >>> importance of the proper filling/bleeding procedure....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I agree that you want to bleed the radiator and top up at the
> >>> rear filler but the jacking is a waste of time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything, and not doing it
> has
> >>> led to at least minor overheating problems in the past.  And the manual
> >>> directs you to do it.
> >>>
> >>> So why WOULDN'T you do it?
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <P><p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"
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