[DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system

Kirby Schrader kirby.schrader at gmail.com
Tue Apr 2 20:02:05 EDT 2013


Since owning a Pantera the first time in 1983, I have never jacked the car up in the back to get the air out of the system….
Never had a problem.

Oh, well….

FWIW,
Kirby


On Apr 2, 2013, at 5:11 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:

> WTF?  Does anybody think a "cold air" bubbble would sink in hot water?
> 
> There is only one proven way to get the air out the system, jacking up the
> rear.  It is this very procedure or lack thereof that gave our cars an
> overheating reputation that we still fight to this day.
> 
> There is no need to reinvent this procedure.
> 
> I have a 393 stroker with a Hall 5 core lay forward brass radiator,
> siliconce hoses and aluminum and stainless hard pipes with a dual electric
> fan on the back side of the radiator. I run a 1/3 100% antifreeze and 2/3
> distiled water with one 16oz bottle of water wetter coolant mix.  I live in
> Savannah, Georgia where the summer temps are often 95-100 degrees with 90%
> humidity.
> After proper filling and bleeding, the only way my car would overheat would
> be to disconnect the fan and sit stil while reving the engine past 3,000
> rpms.  It is all I can do to hit 180 and in more temporate weather 170
> degrees.
> Aside from my coolant mix ( which is the same ratio used for light aircraft
> )  I would say the single biggest improve came as a result of having the
> radiator cleaned/boiled.
> 
> I would encourage you to have your radiator cleaned, 40 years worth of tap
> water with city additives like lime, calcium and flourides do produce a
> white build up which can retrict smooth and speedy waterflow if not block
> off entire rows.
> 
> Then use a proper mix, bleed it as described and witness the difference for
> yourself.
> 
> Michael Shortt
> On Apr 2, 2013 5:31 PM, "Jack Donahue" <demongusta at me.com> wrote:
> 
>> Something to think about: Warm air rises, so I would think air in the
>> system would have a tendency to RISE. With the rear in the air, and
>> bleeding the radiator, aren't we "pushing" the water ahead of the air? Why
>> not raise the front? Years ago I had an "explosion" in the engine bay as I
>> was putting down a city street. A giant white plume of "white". I thought
>> the engine blew. When I pulled over, lifted the deck lid and looked, it was
>> devoid of any oil. Must have been steam. I called a mechanic that had
>> worked on the car after Don Nicholson built and installed the motor, and he
>> said "it burped". My question was, "how often can I expect this baby to
>> burp?" never got an answer, and it has not happened since. Obviously, the
>> pressure exceeded the cap's capacity, and it worked perfectly. Another
>> thing: why not use a STANT (or a similar one) cooling system pump, pump up
>> the system, and then raise the front of the car, putting the radiator at
>> the high point, and maybe waiting a few minutes for the bubbles to rise. I
>> guess this will be batted around forever. I do, however, like John
>> Taphorn's article on cooling, and I think an oil temp gauge is imperative,
>> even though I don't have one yet. I have Gary Hall's radiator and overflow
>> caps, Fluidyne, SS tubes, 1250 sucker-fans, etc.  and my blood pressure is
>> synchronous with the water temp gauge. Kirby Schrader told me in an email
>> that the only way his car will overheat in 100 degree weather (at an
>> intersection) is to shut of one of the cooling fans.Sounds like a dream
>> (goal).
>> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Tomas Gunnarsson wrote:
>> 
>>> Mike,
>>> 
>>> Air will not collect like that in the engine as long as there's enough
>>> water in the system to allow the water pump to push water into the
>>> block. As long as the pump has water supply to fill the block and the
>>> thermostat neck high enough to run over into the tube going away from
>>> the engine no air pocket should be present in the engine. There will be
>>> two air pockets. One in the radiator, the other in the swirl tank if you
>>> have one. If no swirl tank is present, the rear air pocket will be in
>>> the thermostat outlet tube if the system is plumbed in a reasonably
>>> conventional way.
>>> 
>>> Filling an empty system with the rear of the car jacked up is however a
>>> way to ensure that the engine contains a certain amount of air. Hence my
>>> surprise when I over and over hear that it's the best way to fill the
>>> system.
>>> 
>>> Tomas
>>> 
>>> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
>>> From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [MikeLDrew at aol.com]
>>> Sent: 2/4/2013 1:34:54 AM
>>> To: guson at home.se
>>> Cc: detomaso at poca.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Bleeding the cooling system
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In a message dated 4/1/13 13 39 2, guson at home.se writes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>      I beg to differ. As soon as you start driving the car it will
>>> see G-forces much greater than those induced by jacking or parking on a
>>> slope. There is no possibility that air would be trapped in the straight
>>> under car tubes after that.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> No.  Instead, the air that WAS trapped in the pipes before you
>>> started driving, will now be trapped in your engine!  And you're
>>> driving!
>>> 
>>> And overheating.
>>> 
>>> The point of the exercise is to purge the system of air (as much as
>>> possible) *before* you start driving it.
>>> 
>>> There was a significant incident that happened many years ago to a new
>>> Pantera owner here in PCNC land, named Walter Villere.  He bought his
>>> Pantera from a police auction, a rather scruffy but solid Euro GTS, and
>>> only paid $13K or something like that.  One side was beat up because it
>>> had been parked in a fenced lot right against the fence, and the wind
>>> had whipped the fence and battered the side of the car.  But the damage
>>> was all rather trivial.
>>> 
>>> Walter knew a lot about cars and nothing about Panteras.  First thing he
>>> did when he got it home was to change all the fluids--water and oil.  He
>>> drained all the coolant, then just filled it up and topped it off until
>>> the tank was full, on level ground.  He then closed the cap, and took
>>> off across the Richmond bridge, which started right outside his office.
>>> 
>>> Walter was/is a maniac.  Great guy, but a maniac.  He wanted to see how
>>> fast it would go, and the bridge is a great place because there's no
>>> place for cops to hide.  Traffic was light so he just ran it up to
>>> redline in 5th gear.  Having a great time, eyes on the road of course,
>>> so he failed to notice that because he hadn't properly filled the
>>> cooling system, the temp gauge was pegged.
>>> 
>>> BOOM!!!!!!  The engine let go like Krakatoa!
>>> 
>>> Only AFTER that, and a new engine from Hall Pantera, did he learn the
>>> importance of the proper filling/bleeding procedure....
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I agree that you want to bleed the radiator and top up at the
>>> rear filler but the jacking is a waste of time.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> It doesn't cost anything, doesn't hurt anything, and not doing it has
>>> led to at least minor overheating problems in the past.  And the manual
>>> directs you to do it.
>>> 
>>> So why WOULDN'T you do it?
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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