[DeTomaso] Upgrade List
Bill Moore
Bill at Incendium.com
Sun Sep 16 19:59:13 EDT 2012
Thanks Bill, yup the most fun I've ever had, that 1200 mile trip was worth
every dollar. I will spend more on the Efn orange Pantera and I enjoy it
every day. I just went out and looked at it, and I still am not able to
bring myself to clean it, love the dirt and grime.
From: Bill Lewis [mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com]
Sent: September-16-12 5:49 PM
To: bill at incendium.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Upgrade List
(I think that this post below was from Bill at Incendium) Dear Bill, Dude,
there are many ways to justify the money spent on your Pantera, e.g., if you
fished, hunted, golfed, traveled, chased whatever is in LasVegas, etc. after
the end of the year, you have really good memories and tall tales for your
buds, but the money spent on your car - guess what - step out into your
garage and there it is!......................................Never look back
on that money spent. It is not "gone!" As soon as they figure out how to
put a certain part of the female anatomy on a Pantera, it will be the
perfect project. (Larry ??) ----Bill
> From: Bill at Incendium.com
> To: steve at snclocks.com; fisher95020 at yahoo.com; rob at dumoulins.net;
michaelsavga at gmail.com; ParaPantera at aol.com
> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 10:37:45 -0600
> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Upgrade List
>
> Stephen,
> My story is that I bought the 1st and only Pantera I had ever seen, good
> news and bad, but it's been great. I drove it home and put on about 150
> miles, then I bit the bullet, this was a 38 year old used and abused toy.
> Upgrades that had been done were short, aluminum intake manifold, Holley
> carb, brass window motor gears, fiberglass fender flares, and 15 foot
paint.
> Safety first.
> 1) All the rubber hoses
> 2) Suspension rubber and bushings
> 3) Brakes, Willwood front and back (here is the slippery slope)
> 4) Steering Wheel
> 5) Headers and GTS mufflers
> 6) MSD ignition
> 7) New Campy clone, wheels and tires, see #3 above.
>
> I don't have the knowledge, place or time to do the work myself so, more
> money and B/S
>
> Drove it about another 300 miles before winter.
>
> What's the biggest dollar item on this car ? the 38 year old ZF ! Yes it
> should be serviced. Rather than ship the car in November I procrastinated
> til the end of January before shipping it to Dennis in Castle Rock. Yes
the
> ZF required the work. And here we go again, another slippery slope, long
> story short, complete cooling system, suspension, shocks, steering rack,
> front valance, steel chin spoiler, split front & rear bumpers, 100A 1 wire
> alt, volt gauge, etc etal but the gas tank and the engine has been
serviced
> and or upgraded. Flew down to Denver and drove it home to Calgary, what a
> worthwhile BLAST ! This car is solid, fast, tight and a great 15 footer.
I'm
> not sure I want to clean the road grime off from the trip.
>
> A short story. LOL.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On
> Behalf Of Stephen Nelson
> Sent: September-16-12 9:09 AM
> To: 'David D Fisher'; 'Rob Dumoulin'; 'michael at michaelshortt.com';
> ParaPantera at aol.com
> Cc: 'pantera list'
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Upgrade List
>
> David, Michael and Ron - thank you for your thoughts and experience on
> making these cares reliable.
>
>
>
> My goal is to buy a car that has already been made very drivable - so I am
> in effect looking for a punch list of the things that will likely need
> rectified to make the car reliable. As Michael points out, it can get
> expensive in a hurry taking care of the niggling things that can strand
one
> - and, unfortunately, resale prices don't cover all the really valuable
work
> that enthusiasts do to make their cars better.
>
>
>
> Reminds me of the old question - is a restored car more valuable than an
> original? While the answer obviously depends on what a buyer wants (and
> whether there is another person at the auction that will push the buyer to
> his limit), reality is that restoring a car in the price range demanded by
> Pantera's is typically a money loosing proposition.
>
>
>
> Between your three's posts, and what I am gleaning by following this forum
I
> am beginning to understand what I want on a car that I will ultimately use
> for long distance driving. Having already done all the work myself to make
> my '69 XKE as bullet proof as I can, I really want to find a car that has
> already been upgraded, and has covered at least most of the issues raised
by
> you gentlemen.
>
>
>
> One question covering an item not on the lists - Does one typically need
to
> replace the original coolant pipes with stainless? I would think they
could
> be corroded as well as have significant build-up in them?
>
>
>
> After compiling what I have seen so far, this is my list:
>
>
>
>
> Fuel System
>
>
>
>
> Manifold and carburetor
>
>
>
>
> Fuel hoses
>
>
>
>
> Vacuum hoses
>
>
> Engine belts
>
>
> Brakes
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rebuild brake system
>
>
>
>
> Upgrade front rotors to Mustang vented
>
>
>
>
> Stainless brake lines
>
>
>
>
> Emergency brake cable
>
>
> Clutch slave and flush system
>
>
> Electrical
>
>
>
>
> Replace fuse box
>
>
>
>
> Replace ignition switch
>
>
>
>
> Update alternator
>
>
>
>
> If leaving amp meter - add a circuit breaker
>
>
>
>
> MSD Distributor
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tach adaptor
>
>
>
>
> Wires and plugs
>
>
> Door seals
>
>
> Suspension
>
>
>
>
> Suspension bushings.
>
>
>
>
> Shocks
>
>
>
>
> Rear suspension lower pivots - often seized
>
>
>
>
> Rebuild steering rack
>
>
>
>
> Rear axle bearings
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Billet axles
>
>
>
>
> Look at wheel offset and make sure not causing steering challenge
>
>
> Cooling
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Aluminum radiator and new fans
>
>
>
>
> Heater core boil or replace
>
>
>
>
> Radiator cap
>
>
>
>
> Flush cooling system
>
>
>
>
> Radiator temperature switch
>
>
>
>
> Radiator hoses
>
>
> Tranny/Differential
>
>
>
>
> Second gear syncro
>
>
>
>
> Higher final drive ratio
>
>
> Deck lid shocks
>
>
> A/C core
>
>
> Recover seats
>
>
>
> Again, thank you all for taking the time to give me your thoughts!
>
>
>
> Stephen Nelson
>
>
>
> SNClocks.com <http://www.snclocks.com/>
>
> Click here for our new
>
<http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-D
<http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-D
%0b>
> ulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7> Hammered Dulcimers website
>
> Click here for my new blog <http://www.perfectoldman.com/> on finding
> happiness in retirement
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: David D Fisher [mailto:fisher95020 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:40 PM
> To: Rob Dumoulin; Stephen Nelson
> Cc: pantera list
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Upgrade List
>
>
>
> Stephen,
>
>
>
> I am an owner for just under a year now and bought a pretty solid looking
> car, but one that the previous owner had done everything possible to not
> spend money on. Still, it was relatively rust free, ok paint and the older
> 2 pod dash that I was after.
>
>
>
> Since then my priority is mechanical first, beauty second. I tend to do
> more than I really need to to just drive it, but here's my experience:
>
>
>
> Before the list scares you off, I should say that I drove the car home for
> 300 miles, so it was driveable, but it was 40 years old drivable, was not
> reliabe, and not tight.
>
>
>
> Lastly, all said and done, I feel the cars are significantly undervalued.
> I was comparing this to a Ferrari of the same kind of money and IMHO the
> Pantera is much more car.
>
>
>
> What I have done:
>
>
>
> 1) Replace everything rubber - hoses, belt, brake piston seals, tires door
> seals, etc.
>
> 2) Rebuild brakes - stock brakes aren't bad for street use once rebuilt
>
> 3) Replace e brake cable
>
> 4) Replace fuel and vacumm lines
>
> 5) Replace suspection bushing
>
> 6) Replace shocks if not done already
>
> 7) Replace clutch slave and flush out the old fluid
>
> 8) Update alternator
>
> 9) New rad if not already aluminium
>
> 10) Replace rad caps and flush system
>
> 10) New rad temp switch
>
> 11) Steering rack rebuild (not done yet on my car)
>
> 12) 2nd gear syncro - not done but needed
>
> 13) Rear suspension lower bushing up uprights seized.
>
> 14) Rear axle bearing shot - I went to billet axles, but only because I
plan
> for more power later. 1 bearing was spun
>
> 15) I already had MSD, but the distributor advance to seized and the tach
> adaptor fried
>
> 16) Door locks gummy
>
> 17) Replace deck lid shocks
>
> 18) Replace ignition lock
>
> 19) New A/C condensor core
>
> 20) Recharge A/C (already converted to R134)
>
> 21) Repair split heater core
>
> 22) Motor rebuild
>
>
>
> Optional:
>
> 1) Upgrade front rotors to Mustang vented
>
> 2) Upgrade rear axles
>
> 3) Recover seats
>
> 4) Small headlight kit
>
> 5) Big brakes
>
> 6) etc, etc, etc
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Rob Dumoulin <rob at dumoulins.net>
> To: Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com>
> Cc: pantera list <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Upgrade List
>
>
> Stephen, I posed the same topic a while ago and got a rather cold
response.
> It does seem that there are an abundance of Pantera information spread
> around everywhere and some owners have done a great job documenting their
> projects. Good as it may be, it does not provide discussions around the
pros
> and cons of what was done and very few lessons learned. I think a
structured
> Pantera Wiki site would allow this community to define some topics and
> document equipment options and lessons learned in an attempt to build the
> ultimate Pantera for:
>
> - Reliable Daily Driver
> - Show Car
> - Open Road Racer
> - SCCA Track Car
> - Bone Stock replacement
> - Restomod
>
> For topics like flaw with and mods to:
>
> - Cooling System
> - Electrical (ignition, lights, charging, accessories, fuse box, dash,
> alternator)
> - Engine
> - Gauges
> - Hubs
> - Brakes
> - ZF
> - Lights
> - A/C
> - Heater
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Stephen Nelson <steve at snclocks.com>
wrote:
>
> > This forum is a great way to start to learn about the finer points of
> > owning and maintaining a Pantera. Oh, and about upgrading or updating
> > these fantastic cars. So, wanting to learn more about what should be
> > done to bring a car up to current "standards", I did a search for
> > upgrade, update, and modification. And figured out that there is a
> > lot written about these cars tail lights.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is anyone aware of a previous post or string of posts that covers what
> > needs to be done to make these cars all they can be today? I suppose
> > the list would need to start off with items that really need done to
> > keep the car from having a major oops - like the issue with half
> > shafts. And progress from there to the "wanna-have" items.
> >
> >
> >
> > If there isn't such a list - perhaps some of you more knowledgeable
> > types could start a listing for us wanna-have-a-Pantera-that-runs-great
> types.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stephen Nelson
> >
> >
> >
> > SNClocks.com <http://snclocks.com/> <http://www.snclocks.com/>
> >
> > Click here for our new
> > <
> >
>
http://www.snclocks.com/TheRestofourWorld/Hammered-Dulcimers/About-Steves-D
> > ulcimers/19824807_4sHGgj#1558377542_LKmkrT7> Hammered Dulcimers
> > website
> >
> > Click here for my <http://www.perfectoldman.com/> new blog on finding
> > happiness in retirement
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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>
>
> --
> Rob DuMoulin
> 904.476.8744
> rob at dumoulins.net
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