[DeTomaso] Good three-wire alternator?

Guido deTomaso guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Mon Mar 19 23:10:08 EDT 2012


This ground has all been plowed before, but that's half the fun, right?

One of those wires not included with a one-wire alternator is the "sense", the 
one that provides the battery voltage ( at the battery ).  Without this 
function, the regulator is guessing at what that voltage is, based on what it 
"sees" at the alternator.  Maybe adequate but not optimal.

I've got a voltmeter I added to a car where an ammeter would be impractical or 
require the use of a shunt.  I seldom look at it and when I do it doesn't tell 
me much I can use.  With an ammeter, I can quickly see if the battery is 
charging or discharging, and the needle will peg more dramatically in case of 
problems in either direction.

And the voltmeter needs its own wire to the battery, (for the same reason the 
optimal regulator has a separate "sense" wire) so mine stays on all the time.  
It will kill the battery in a few weeks if the car sits.  I could give it its 
own relay to come on with the key, but that would add complexity.  Since the 
wire is always on, straight to the + post on the battery, I gave it it's own 
fuse for safety.  Or I meant to.

A different car has neither a voltmeter nor an ammeter, only a light.  In truth, 
I never worry about it, and it always starts.  I guess ignorance can be bliss.

Batteries are a lot better than they used to be, so that's its own upgrade.  I 
think that's why the British cars start easier today than they did 40 years ago.

Back when I worked at the car plant, the "high-output" alternators put out more 
power at low rpm but less at high rpm than their garden variety cousins.  I have 
no idea what that comparison would look like on the Ford alternators available 
today ... it's the low rpm conditions that  eventually drain the battery and 
then the car quits and/or won't re-start.  There was also the "big battery / 
small alternator" school of thought vs. the "small battery / big alternator" 
school of thought, different manufacturers were said to follow one or the other.

'Bout all I can think of.

GD


 



________________________________
From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
To: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>; Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Mon, March 19, 2012 9:41:29 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Good three-wire alternator?

I have spent a lot of time looking at SOBill's circuit drawings and the wiring 
in the car.  Switching to a volt meter and a one wire alternator makes it all 
much simpler.  

 
I talked to a local starter/alternator manufacturer, who makes one of the best 
starters you can buy, about one wire alternators and he said that the problem 
with most of them is the cheap electronics they use.  He sells a custom 180 
amp Demso alternator and said the electronics, bearings, etc, are much better 
than just about anything available.  All I need is one big wire to the starter 
and that's all the wiring for the alternator.  They also strongly recommend a 
fuseable link.
 
UPS is replacing thousands of their cheap Chinese starters with his starters 
which is a pretty good indication of the quality.
 
Ken

From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net> 
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com> 
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Good three-wire alternator?


If the system doesn't require 100 amps, then it won't fry anything. 
You could have a 500 amp alternator, if you wanted.

Now... if you add a lot of electrical components onto existing wires that are 
too small, then yes...  you could have a problem.

Kirby

On Mar 19, 2012, at 12:47 AM, Curt Hall wrote:

> Will the stock Pantera wiring support much more then a 100 amp alternator? With 
>out frying itself? 
>
> 
> --- On Sun, 3/18/12, Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Good three-wire alternator?
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sunday, March 18, 2012, 3:27 PM
> 
> 
> I wanted something for the GT40 that was three wire (so I kept the same wiring) 
>and had high output at idle when you need it.
> i.e., sitting at the stoplight with the lights on, the A/C on, fans running 
>full blast, electric water pump, ECU, etc. etc.
> 
> These guys had just what I wanted and I am very happy with it.
> http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/highoutput.html
> 
> I went with a 200 amp output 3G Ford style. It pumps out more than 100 amps at 
>idle.
> 
> They know their stuff and will help you with no drama. Next time I need an 
>alternator, I'll use them.
> 
> If you really NEED 200 amps, one V-belt won't cut it though... I just wanted 
>the 100 amp at idle.
> 
> FWIW,
> Kirby
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 18, 2012, at 3:18 PM, MikeLDrew at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Hi guys,
> > 
> > I'm parts-chasing for a guy in Germany that wants a good 100-amp THREE-wire 
> > stock-style alternator, with the stock external voltage regulator.
> > 
> > All the Pantera vendors sell the no-brain one-wire alternator with internal 
> > regulator.  He's looking to keep his system stock, but just pumped up a 
> > bit.
> > 
> > My local NAPA can have one custom-made for $190, but does anybody know of 
> > an off-the-shelf alternative?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > Mike
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