[DeTomaso] NPC - Hybrid Battery

Will Kooiman wkooiman at earthlink.net
Sun Mar 11 20:43:46 EDT 2012


>> How small is your engine?

1.0 liter.  That's tiny.  Soft drinks at American gas stations are larger.

>> How many horses?

I think it's 78 bhp.  Running 70mph on flat ground and no wind takes about
65 bhp, apparently.

>> What kind of top speed will it get?

I have hit 100mph.  I haven't tried faster.  It's under 2,000 lbs.  It is
mostly aluminum.  I didn't feel safe going much faster than 100mph.

>> What are recognized as the best hybrid cars today? Toyota? Honda?

Best is subjective.  The Prius is a 4-seater. Our Insight is a 2-seater -
more like the Honda CRX.  The new Honda Insight looks like a Prius, but the
engine works like my car.

The Prius can run on batteries alone. The gas engine turns a generator which
turns a motor. There is no transmission.  If the batteries are charged, and
if you are going slow enough, and if the engine is warmed up, the engine
will shut off, and you can run on just the batteries.  When the batteries
drain, the engine will start by itself.

My Insight has a 5-speed.  The electric motor only boosts the engine.  It
cannot run on the batteries by themselves.  Even if it could, the batteries
would drain in about a mile.

Most people I've met get about 45 mpg in their Prius.  My Insight gets
better mileage, but the Prius can haul kids and groceries.  Like I said,
better is subjective.

Hybrid technology in big cars is stupid.  Why would you put hybrid
technology in a tank, when it will only get 25mpg?  My Viper gets 21mpg
(highway), and that's with an 8-liter V10.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bjoern Flesland [mailto:bflesland at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:49 PM
To: Will Kooiman
Cc: De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Hybrid Battery

Thanks for replying. That's the way I thought it was.
The mpg you are getting is pretty amazing.

How small is your engine?
How many horses?
What kind of top speed will it get?
What are recognized as the best hybrid cars today? Toyota? Honda?
Cheers Bjoern



Sent from my iPhone


Den 11. mars 2012 kl. 16:10 skrev "Will Kooiman" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>:

> The batteries charge when you brake and when you lift on the gas pedal.
> There isn't a way to stop and charge them.  They charge on their own as
you
> are driving.
> 
> The Insight battery/motor works like a turbocharger.  They help with
> acceleration.  When you are going a steady speed, they don't contribute
> anything.  The main engine is a small 3-cylinder.
> 
> The 80,3 mpg was because I was on a trucking route, and there was heavy
> traffic.  While I was behind a truck, I was getting 85-90 mpg.  It dropped
> to 80,3 when I hit stretches with no trucks.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bjoern Flesland [mailto:bflesland at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:25 AM
> To: Will Kooiman
> Cc: De Tomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Hybrid Battery
> 
> Very interesting story Will.
> Did you have to stop and recharge batteries on that long trip when doing
> 80,3 mpg? 
> Or do they charge when you drive?
> 
> Cheers Bjoern
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Den 11. mars 2012 kl. 06:48 skrev "Will Kooiman" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>:
> 
>> This has zero Pantera content, but it is interesting nonetheless.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I just replaced the battery in my 2006 Honda Insight.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Insight performs pretty much like any other compact car.  It
> accelerates
>> slowly, but it isn't dangerous.  It has plenty of room for 2 people, and
>> barely enough for 2 people and a Basset Hound (Max).  It's fun seeing
what
>> mileage is possible, but beyond that, it is just boring.  Make that
> BORING.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For the first 70,000 miles, it was easy to get over 70 mpg on the
highway.
>> My personal best was 80.3 while driving from Dallas to Little Rock.
> Imagine
>> driving from Dallas to Little Rock, back to Dallas, and halfway to
Houston
>> before stopping for gas (10.5 gallon tank).  I stopped short of half way,
>> but I think I could have made it.  It was late and I was tired, so I
> decided
>> not to push it.  When the low fuel light comes on, you have 1.5 gallons -
>> and you can still go 100 miles.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At about 70,000 miles, we noticed the mileage dropping.  It took longer
to
>> charge the batteries, and they drained faster.  For a while, it was tough
> to
>> get over 70mpg.  And then it was tough to hit 65mpg, and then the low
> 60's.
>> All of these are steady state, 70mph, interstate figures.  In town was
> 5-10
>> mpg lower.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At about 165,000 miles, the check engine light came on. The code said the
>> battery had failed.  We drove it another 10,000 miles while we waited for
> a
>> new battery (more about that later).  With a dead battery, the best it
> could
>> do was about 55mpg.  It was also borderline unsafe.  0-60 times were
>> measured in the fortnight.  Once it was going 70mph, it was okay, but
>> accelerating into traffic was frustrating.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So, there you have it.  For our Insight, the battery lasted 165,000
miles.
>> Colder climates should fare better.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I should point out that 70mpg was rarely our tank average.  It's
difficult
>> to average 70mpg for 700 miles.  Once you include city driving and starts
>> and stops, the tank average drops.  From 0-70,000 miles, our tank average
>> was usually in the mid 60's.  From 70,000 to 140,000, it was in the mid
>> 50's.  From 140,000 to 174,000, it was in the low 50's.  It has never
been
>> lower than 52 (or maybe 51.5, I don't recall exactly).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Now about the replacement.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> When hybrids were new, a replacement was a dealer-only option.  It ran
> about
>> $4,000, or so I'm told.  Some batteries were replaced for free in hotter
>> climates. The heat kills batteries.  If you factor in the battery
>> replacement cost, the hybrid was still cheaper than a similar compact -
> but
>> not by much.  You can burn a lot of gasoline for $4,000.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Insight battery isn't the voodoo the media made it out to be.  It has
> 20
>> battery "sticks".  Each stick is composed of 6 D-Cell batteries that have
>> been soldered and taped together.  The solder reduces resistance.  The
>> website said they were welded together, but I'm assuming they mean
solder.
>> The batteries are nickle metal hydride, similar to what you would find in
> a
>> radio controlled car.  The only difference is the size.  RC cars use AA
>> batteries, I think.  When the sticks are installed in the pack, they put
> out
>> 144 volts.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Fortunately, the tree huggers figured out how to replace the sticks.
They
>> are enthusiasts, not unlike us.  Okay, they are nerdy enthusiast, but you
>> get the picture.  There are websites that describe how to replace the
>> sticks, but I opted to have a professional do mine.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I got mine from here:
>> http://www.hybrid-battery-repair.com/insight/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> They sent me a new module. I swapped it out in about 2 hours.  FedEx will
>> pick up my old battery on Monday.  Once the shop receives my old module,
>> they will give me credit for the core charge.  And they will RECYCLE the
> old
>> batteries.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The replacement cost varies depending on what's wrong.  Sometimes they
can
>> rebuild the pack and only replace the defective sticks.  Since mine was
so
>> old, I didn't think there was any sense trying to replace the worn out
>> sticks.  I bought the BetterBattery (on the website) for about $2,000.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I took it for a drive today, and the difference is amazing.  It used to
> make
>> more noise and acceleration was terrible.  It's interesting how you start
> to
>> accept things as normal when they change gradually - like the story about
>> boiling a frog in water.  I drove about 15 miles, in town, and averaged
>> about 70mpg.  For a while I was in the 90's.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At any rate, that's my story.  The rest of the Insight is in pretty good
>> shape, so we're going to push for another 175,000 miles.
>> 
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