[DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)

[Dave]

Jerry,

I Installed a DB starter about 5 years ago. Fit perfectly, always worked great. I purchased is model 3223 from DB Electrical

I just checked the DB website & found:

"If you have a Manual Transmission model, you may need our 
part #3223 starter listed in a seperate listing."

 I'm pretty sure you bought the wrong starter.
IndyDave


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry R Knotts [mailto:knottsj at galstar.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 10:31 AM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)

A few years ago something came up on the list about using DB Electric starters for the Pantera.  They are Chinese made and are supposed to be the same as the rebranded high torque starters that are sold for significantly more money.  I purchased one for future use.  It is a SFD0012 which was the recommendation from the list for the Pantera.
Two weeks ago I called DB for a starter for the 351C with a C6 that I have in my Cobra.  They recommended the SFD0001 as the one to use.  I ordered and installed the recommended starter.

The following is from and ongoing exchange I have had with DB Electrical:

--------------------------------
Sent by me to DB.

Contacted your tech people to get a 351 Cleveland starter.  Your people recommended a SFD0001 which I ordered.  I installed it and it fit differently that the starter that was on the motor.  It installed further around the arch of the flywheel and the depth of the tooth engagement was less that the standard Ford starter.  The Ford starter has a separate solenoid and is a larger unit.  After trials of about 10 starts I found the starter gear failed to engage once seeming to bounce off of the flywheel The Cleveland has a 168 tooth flywheel.  I went to get gas and after filling the tank I attempted to start the car.  The starter turned the motor over once and seemed to hang.  The battery an Exide Orbital began to smoke and the starter would not disengage or turn the motor over. After towing it to my mechanic it had an extremely large amp draw.  I have replaced the battery and the old starter and it now starts again.

This process has brought up a few questions.

Is the SFD0001 the correct starter for the Cleveland 351 engine or is it for a Windsor 351?  If the SFD0001 is correct why does it have problems engaging the flywheel?

If the SFD0001 is for a Cleveland I have also purchased a starter SFD0012 as a back up for my 351 Cleveland engine Pantera.  Is this the correct starter for the DeTomaso Pantera?

I realize that the two cars have different belhousings but the basic engagement should be the same for the same flywheels.

Your shipping document says:
"We have shipped your Premium Webstores Item # 13612089. NEW Ford Mini PMGR Racing Starter 302 351 Higher Torque "
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Reply from DB Electrical

The SFD0001 starter will work on all 302 and 351 motors as long as you have an automatic or 5 speed manual transmission. The SFD0012 will work on all
302 and 351 motors that have 3 speed or 4 speed manual transmissions.

Thanks, DB
------------------------


Their reply leads me to believe that they think there is not a difference between the Cleveland and Windsor starters.

They certainly look different in snout design and engagement position.

Any thoughts about either starter and if they will work in applications of both Windsor and Cleveland blocks?

Wishing I had paid more attention earlier in life.  (To many things) jerry