[DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

Federico Ballejos frb3 at comcast.net
Fri Jan 20 09:59:15 EST 2012 






Perhaps you have your own version of supply and demand.  Boeings export of its product is not at the expense of its home country,  the market for their product is not in short supply in this country, we consume as much of their product as we need.  The gas and diesel that is being exported is gas and diesel that is not being made available to Americans.  The exported supply, if it were not exported, would increase inventory in this country and this would reduce the price to Americans.   They are selling the gas and diesel in markets that gives them higher prices, good for them, but it also helps them short supply.  The shorter the supply the higher price.   Thats is all well and good if you are directly or indirectly sharing in these additional profits.  I don't share in these profits therefore I do not understand the logic of building a pipe line for the benefit of oil companies and other countries. The other factor involved  is the states directly affected by the pipe line, they are not the promoters of the project.


On Jan 20, 2012, at 2:55 AM, Denny Morse wrote:

> Federico,
> 
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Federico Ballejos <frb3 at comcast.net> wrote:
> There are govt regs in place that prevent the export of crude oil, no regs against export of refined products.  The pipeline is intended to bring oil to the gulf for the purpose of refining.  The pipeline will not benefit Americans, it will only ben efit the oil companies who will then export the refined gas and diesel.  So if you think the oil companies need "help" then support the pipeline.
> 
> I don't understand your logic at all because refining in the US creates jobs in the US and reduces our import/export trade imbalance. Following your misguided logic Boeing and Intel should not be allowed to export because it increases their profits. So I guess you would prefer that Exxon relocated to another country. Sounds pretty misguided to me.
> 
> The more important point about the Keystone XL pipeline is that Canada is a friendly neighbor of ours and they are not a member of OPEC so production is not changed just to control prices. This is the most important reason to import crude oil from Canada than from countries who hate us and would like to destroy us. Look at this wonderful list of countries and tell me that you prefer them over Canadian crude oil.
> 
>   http://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/about_us/25.htm
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Denny
> 
>  
> On Jan 19, 2012, at 6:15 AM, Gray Gregory wrote:
> 
> > Boyd,
> >
> > The pipeline has been thoroughly studied and has gone through all the typical environmental impact studies that are done on every pipeline prior to getting a permit, in fact this particular pipeline has gone through a lot more scrutiny than any other pipeline I can recall. The denial of this particular pipeline is purely political / ideological and has no basis in fact or science.   As for the Nebraska Gov I have no idea what his political motives are. The original concerns were about a particular aquifer in Nebraska which Trans Canada agreed to re-rout the pipeline to avoid.
> >
> > Gray
> >
> > From: boyd casey [mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 8:34 PM
> > To: Gray Gregory
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
> >
> > Gray, I am not against the use of Canadian tar sands oil, as I stated in a previous post I have invested in Canadian  Sand Oil trusts whose sole enterprise is Tar oil. I just believe it is important to make sure all the correct precautions are taken and adequate research done. I think it would be great to start right away, It would add needed jobs and help kick start the economy. I just don't know if adequate studies have been done to start the pipeline. Even he Governor of Nebraska wants the pipe line rerouted OUT OF HIS STATE. I'm pretty sure he knows more about the risks then any of us do. But I am just guessing.
> > Boyd
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Gray Gregory <rgg at gregorycook.com<mailto:rgg at gregorycook.com>> wrote:
> > Boyd,
> > It looks to me like the info in the articles about the US becoming an net exporter of petroleum products just highlights the need for the Keystone pipeline. The article clearly states that increased crude supplies from Canada are a big reason we are able to make more refined products thus enabling us to export; which for a country with a large negative trade balance is a very good thing! It also states that the net exports of these products pales in comparison to our net imports of crude oil; which is what this pipeline will carry and oil imported from Canada by pipeline is definitely preferable to oil imported by tanker from Africa or the Middle East!
> > As for the blogs about tar sands oil being more toxic, they are mostly just environmental scare tactics. Yes tar sands oil is on the heavier side of the crude spectrum, but so is a lot of conventionally produced oil. I've been in the pipeline business my whole life and I can tell you there is nothing about heavy crude that makes it more likely to cause a spill. The fact is pipelines are by far the safest most efficient method of transportation in the world and all the fear mongering is nothing more than scare tactics by the environmental extremists.
> >
> > Gray
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com>] On Behalf Of boyd casey
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:40 PM
> > To: michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com>
> > Cc: Ken Green; detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com>; Larry Finch
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
> > Dear Michael,
> > The only time I have been known to wear panties was when I was tearing a pair off a lady friend with my teeth and they got caught on my head. I don't know who you have been having your intellectual debates with but there is no shortage of facts here. I have heard you brag about being able to "back your garbage up" but no one is doubting your driving ability LOL Seriously I have not seen any facts emanating from your corner.
> >
> > Some links to facts for you.
> >
> > US net oil exporter for
> > 2011<http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2011/12/us_net_exports.html>
> >
> >
> > Us net oil exporter
> > #2<http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/story/2011-12-16/us-oil-boom/52053236/1>
> >
> > US poised to retake status as net oil
> > exporter<http://seekingalpha.com/article/315669-u-s-poised-to-retake-status-as-net-petroleum-products-exporter>
> >
> > Tar oil spills <http://ww4report.com/node/9874>
> > Montana oil pipeline  spills Tar sands
> > oil<http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/15/us-oil-spill-montana-idUSTRE76E0OJ20110715>
> >
> >
> > Let me know how many more facts you want to match up against your "Garbage "
> > Since Tar sand oil is in many ways similar to garbage your choice of words is more apropos then you might think.
> > Hugh Boyd Casey
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 7:10 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com<mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com> < michaelsavga at gmail.com<mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Lots of quips from the panty wearing liberals, yet Zero facts... as usual.
> >>
> >> Obama is a socialist pig, hellbent on destroying our country from
> >> within by policy, deed and his uncultured,  inner Kenyan oafishness.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >> On Jan 18, 2012 7:02 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com<mailto:Bill at incendium.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> If it's garbage, burn it as fuel. LOL.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>> Calgary
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From:   Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>>
> >>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com>
> >>> Date:   Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:46:44
> >>> To: Larry Finch<fresnofinches at aol.com<mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com>>; detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com><
> >>> detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com>>
> >>> Reply-To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com<mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion
> >>> engines
> >>>
> >>> Larry,
> >>>
> >>>    This has gotten past a contest to see who can score points.
> >>>
> >>>    I'd really like to hear your honest opinion of Obama's energy policy.
> >>> The only policy I can see is making fossil fuels very expensive or
> >>> unavailable, and subsidizing solar and wind energy, to the extent
> >>> that fossil fuels will no longer be viable for the common man in the
> >>> United States.  I see a total disregard for the consequences,
> >>> specifically the harm to the average American.  I have seen
> >>> estimates that solar and wind energy can only provide a small
> >>> percent (25%?) of the energy we use now.  What kind of America do
> >>> you envision when most of use can't drive cars and can't keep the
> >>> lights on?  Some people seem to actually think
> >> that
> >>> electricity comes out of the air and that electric cars mean an end
> >>> to fossil fuel, but I assume we all realize that nearly all
> >>> electricity in
> >> the
> >>> US is generated from fossil fuel.
> >>>
> >>>     I am willing to listen to what you think, and if you believe
> >>> that global warming is a valid reason to turn the US into a 3rd
> >>> world economy
> >> I
> >>> will respect your view, but I would just like a realistic and honest
> >>> statement.
> >>>
> >>> Ken
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com<mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com>>
> >>> To: detomaso at realbig.com<mailto:detomaso at realbig.com>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:10 PM
> >>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
> >>>
> >>> Michael wrote -
> >>> "be prepared to back your garbage up, I can."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Garbage. I am glad you can back your garbage up.
> >>>
> >>> But if its garbage..........
> >>>
> >>> You called it, I didn't.  :-)
> >>>
> >>> Larry - sticks and stones.........
> >>>
> >>>
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