[DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

Wed Jan 18 20:15:17 EST 2012

Holy cow....

First,

Michael....take it down a notch will you????

Michael I am far from a liberal.  I own guns, lots of cars, vote republican
(if they are the better person) and like to eat the meet that my neighbors
shot and am definitely NOT a fan of our current president.  I must say that
your name calling and vitriolic attitude have firmly disqualified you from
someone I think could participate in a reasonable discussion on this, or
any, political topic.  I had a professor that used to say "if you can't
think of a good argument against your point of view, that alone is a good
argument against your point of view"

I love discussion that might teach me something new and expand my
perspective.  I'm not sure that I can rely on you for that.

Second,
Boyd,
Thanks for a reasoned and calm response.  A couple of items I respectfully
disagree with.

1.  This pipeline has been in the environmental study stage for 3 years.  It
is purely political to delay it further based on the need for "further
study" and that is from the Federal view.  The states have been studying
this as well in a parallel approach.  If it was 10 years in environmental
study he would have delayed it since he needs, and is counting on, the
political support from the environmentalists.  That is just being honest.
Even the most jaded politico would agree with that.  I just watched the
Democratic governor from Montana admit that and we was struggling to support
President Obama's decision since he is in support of the pipeline.

2.  Yes this is thick tar sands but far from "one of the most toxic
substance known to man".  It is very thick and originates from the tar sands
in Canada.  It is perfectly suitable for pipeline transportation and is one
of the easiest things to clean up in the event of a rupture.  The viscosity
alone ensures that.  Ask a petroleum expert.  While I don't have
documentation to support this, I work and live with experts on pipelines and
oil transportation (and I slept at a Holiday Inn ;>)  )

3.  Yes we are a net exporter of petroleum products but that is based on the
type of oil related to the type of refining abilities we have.  Our oil is
better suited to be made into some products while the Mid east oil is better
suited to be refined into gas.  That statistic, while accurate, can be a
little misleading especially when you factor in natural gas.  This is a fact
that becomes convenient depending on what side of the argument you are on.
I have heard both repubs and dems spout this same argument.  I will try to
find the article I read on this.  If I can locate it I will forward it to
you.

Thanks for your time and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Lynn

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:19 PM
To: boyd casey
Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com; De Tomaso List
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

If you're going to drag my self esteem and crib into it while insulting me
with your peace and love message., then two words for you Boyd.

Typical "passive - aggressive" liberal panty wearing behavior.
On Jan 18, 2012 7:11 PM, "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Pantera brothers,
> I don't want to be branded as "A Panty wearing Liberal" just because I may
> share a view different from someone else's. In my humble opinion any one
> who prefaces or ends a statement supporting their opinion by insulting the
> manhood of another is suffering from self esteem issues or is perhaps
> worried about there own level of "Machismo". My understanding is not that
> Obama is against the new oil pipeline , but doesn't want to make a
decision
> until all the environmental questions have been answered. We are not
> talking about a "normal" oil pipeline here. This is a pipeline to
transport
> "Black Sand oil" which is one of the most (if not the most" toxic oil
> products known to man. There have already been some environmentally
> disastrous spills in Minnesota, and Nebraska wanted the pipeline re-routed
> out of their state. So I believe there are valid questions and concerns
> that need to be looked at before we move forward. By the way how many of
> you know that the US was a net* EXPORTER* of petroleum products in 2011.
So
> we are selling more oil products then we are importing. If things were
> really that desperate how would that be possible?  If you doubt this fact
> let me know and I will post the evidence and statistics I have.I don't
> really like discussing political hot potatoes on this forum but I believe
> this one is very important. If we are going to engage in a discussion of
> this subject I propose we keep it intelligent, base it on facts, not
> opinions and leave the name calling scrawled on the wall next to your
crib.
> Hugh Boyd Casey
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> >
> > Yeah, but it's not just the internal combustion engine..... I like to
> > refer people to an old commercial by Occidental Peroleum entitled
> > "Hydrocarbon Man" which highlights our dependence on hydrocarbon derived
> > products. One can argue either way; I agree we need alternatives, but
> they
> > need to be viable on both cost & environmental fronts.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0kWskiRdQ
> >
> > So who is prepared to "do the right thing" and sell their Pantera to buy
> a
> > Prius? I have potential buyers lined up that I have been helping look
for
> > good Pantera's :>), I might even buy another myself. My theory is the
> more
> > cars in my garage the more I'm doing for the economy and the
environment.
> > For the economy I pay registration on all the cars, however I can only
> > drive one at a time so I'm actively reducing the carbon footprint in
> > comparison to if those cars were owned by 9 individuals al driving at
the
> > same time :>)
> >
> > Julian ("Earth first......we'll mine other planets later")
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:11:28 -0800
> > > From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> > > To: detomaso at realbig.com
> > > Subject: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
> > >
> > > I assume everyone has seen that Obama killed the oil pipeline from
> > Canada because environmentalists are worried that the method of
> production
> > (in Canada) may be bad for the environment (Canada will just sell the
oil
> > to China).  This would also apply to recovering natural gas and oil in
> the
> > US using similar methods.  Basically, a policy that will eventually end
> the
> > use of the internal combustion engine in America when gas is priced out
> of
> > reach and our economy crashes even worse because of energy costs.
> > >
> > > I agree that politics should be avoided in the discussion group, but
if
> > the direction of the country is not corrected soon, all we will be able
> to
> > do is tell our grandchildren what it was like to be able to hop in a car
> > and go where you want to.
> > >
> > > Anyone watch "Atlas Shrugged"?  It frighteningly foresaw this.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > > _______________________________________________
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