[DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps

Mon Jan 16 19:27:19 EST 2012

My Ultima is setup as a constant on/off with the ignition, although I'm sure there would be a way to control it with the Accel ECU.

The area I have always been most concerned about is the thermostat/bypass setup and location to a) ensure bypassing until the engine warms up as it's not good to dead head the pump, and b) ensure the thermostat doesn't create a restriction to flow, especially if that is somewhat remote.

Kirby, you mention your setup and warm up time as a function of getting to the entrance of your estate; being in TX your 'estate' could be a ranch the size of a small country in Europe :>)

I see Meziere make a remote pump with integral thermostat housing, which might simplify things, but at a cost as they are something like $950.

I did learn something today and that is the Stewart Warner pump is a flow through design, so I'd opt for that on the Pantera as I had envisaged having an electric water pump as a booster in that application due to the fact ithe engine block is partically epoxy hard blocked.

Julian

> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:20:43 -0600
> From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> To: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> Ken,
> 
> I've been watching this thread with interest. My point of view which mostly
> agrees with what Julian said...
> 
> I have a Meziere 337 55gpm remote pump in my GT40. I went this route based
> on advice from Mike Trusty and I haven't been disappointed.
> I did try their block mounted model, but it is even longer than the
> standard water pump, so your 'hump' gets bigger! Now, I really like my flat
> firewall. I sold the block mounted model on eBay.
> 
> PWM - Pulse Width Modulator does just what it says. It 'chops' DC into 'AC'
> of varying frequency so the pump turns off and on rapidly. The shorter the
> on time compared to the off time, the slower it goes.
> I have a PWM on my GT40 which controls the inside blower fan for the A/C.
> It really buzzes at the lower speeds.... when the pulses are very short.
> But now you've got me wondering... I should measure the frequency and look
> at the pulses on the 'scope. The PWM I have might be 'dirty' and I'm not
> getting 'clean' pulses.
> 
> Nevertheless, I wouldn't use a PWM on a $400 water pump. I feel that
> sticking with the thermostat doing it's thing and letting the pump do its
> thing is the best.... At least, it works for me. My Meziere runs constantly
> whenever the ignition key is on.
> 
> My remote Meziere and my thermostat (Mustang remote housing) are up front
> right behind the radiator in the GT40. I have two braided lines running
> from it to the block. The engine warms up by the time I'm driving out the
> front entrance of my estate, so I don't consider warm up time to be an
> issue. The longer path for the bypass also reduced the temperature swings
> I saw on the temp gauge in the block from the thermostat opening and
> closing. They were as much as 10degC with the block mounted thermostat.
> Yes, it could have been the thermostat...
> 
> I've got right at 4,000 miles on the car with the Meziere and it works
> fine. Asa Jay asked, but I have only done three track events with the car
> so far and no open road events. It has never overheated. It used to.
> 
> Proof that it works, IMHO... Last summer, in 105F temps in Houston and stop
> and go traffic with the radiator seeing nothing but exhaust fumes from the
> car in front, I was sweating but the engine temp climbed slightly and just
> sat there. As soon as I got moving and the space between cars opened up,
> the temp dropped back down. That means air flow to me and I have a project
> pending to put larger wire to the radiator fans. Not fond of the wire
> gauges SPF used...
> 
> My Pantera has a similar remote thermostat setup (the BMW model), but I'm
> still running a Edelbrock mechanical water pump. If/when it dies, I'll
> convert the Pantera also and finally get a flat firewall with it, too.
> 
> Hah... just realized I typed almost the same thing the other day on the
> GT40s forum.... Oh, well.
> 
> FWIW,
> Kirby
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 14:42, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dave,
> >
> > I think with a PWM power supply the frequency can be in the kilohertz
> > range (Dave Londry would know). I would imagine the inertia of the water
> > flow would keep the coolant flowing pretty steadily and that the pump never
> > stop spinning.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: David Nunn <dnunn at telus.net>
> > To: detomaso at realbig.com
> > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:34 AM
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> >
> > Asa Jay,
> >
> > About two years ago, I moved my Laminova heat exchanger from the engine
> > compartment to under the car. While I was at it, I decided to replace all
> > of
> > my coolant tubing. Before doing so, I called both Stewart and Meziere and
> > asked their tech depts. for their advice on improving a Pantera's cooling
> > system. To my surprise, both tech guys were very familiar with the Pantera
> > and its cooling system. In fact, both guys had identical thoughts and
> > recommendations. Both felt the Pantera's biggest problem was the resistance
> > to flow that's inherent in pushing coolant through 22 feet of tubing. They
> > both told me that the Pantera's belt driven water pump cavitates badly at
> > high RPM's because there's simply too much resistance to flow. Both
> > suggested the same solutions: a single pass radiator and a remote, electric
> > booster pump, installed as close to the radiator's outlet as possible. I
> > decided to follow their recommendation and I went with a Stewart in-line
> > booster pump, for the simple reason that the Stewart pump creates zero
> > restriction in the cooling system when it's not running, whereas Meziere's
> > remote pumps create a substantial restriction when they're not running.
> >
> > Here's the part that was surprising to me: both tech guys advised me
> > against
> > running an electric water pump as my only water pump, on a street driven
> > car, for two reasons: reliability and warm-up. The reliability matter is
> > what it is. Their concern with warm-up was that electric pumps simply flow
> > much more coolant at idle than a belt driven pump and so warm-up takes
> > longer and sometimes, much longer. I asked about controllers that regulate
> > the electric water pump until the engine is up to temperature but they both
> > did not like them because the way they work is to "stutter" the flow. That
> > is, they turn the water pump on and off at intervals that depend upon the
> > temperature of the engine. The problem, both felt, was that every part of
> > the cooling system gets "shocked" by cold coolant every time the controller
> > turns the pump "on" during warm up. It also takes a fraction of a second
> > for
> > coolant to boil in a cylinder head, so the pump should never be "off".
> >
> > When they told me that, I immediately recalled reading, on the GT40 forum,
> > about owners with electric water pumps having radiator failures for unknown
> > reasons. It turned-out to be those "stuttering" water pump controllers. It
> > seems that aluminum rads don't like being warm, then getting hit with cold
> > coolant.
> >
> > Both companies said they were working on controllers that vary the voltage
> > to the electric pump, so they will operate continuously, with the speed of
> > rotation of the pump's impeller depending on temperature, but neither knew
> > when such an item would be available. Maybe they're available now? In my
> > case, with my booster pump, it's controlled by my EFI's ECU, so it stays
> > off
> > until my engine temp hits 180 degrees. I also incorporated one of John
> > Taphorn's remote "high-flow" bypass thermostats into my revised cooling
> > system, but that's another subject entirely.
> >
> > I hope this helps,
> >
> > Dave
> >
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