[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 90, Issue 16

[rcbsons1 at aol.com]

I have mezz on my 500 inch 750 hp pontiac   It has a Cleveland style head and I feed all four corners with -12 lines it runs cool in 100 plus days but I have not pushed it yet

Michael it right about all the electricals as that car has elect water and fuel pumps along with elect fan

I do like elect fans that are switched because you can control temp better especially in cold weather

Bob Benson

Sent from my iPhone
Bob Benson
RC Benson & Sons
Office 650-965-3430
Cell 408-209-7677

On Jan 16, 2012, at 4:00 AM, detomaso-request at realbig.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Color and resale value? (david rehberg)
>   2. Re: Door weatherstripping (Jeff Detrich)
>   3. Re: Door weatherstripping (JEFFREY COBB)
>   4. Re: Door weatherstripping (JDeRyke at aol.com)
>   5. New taillights (CharlesMcCall)
>   6. Re: New taillights (david rehberg)
>   7. Meziere water pumps (Asa Jay Laughton)
>   8. Re: STOCK taillight lenses wanted (richard bosch)
>   9. Re: Meziere water pumps (Ken Green)
>  10. Re: Meziere water pumps (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  11. Re: Meziere water pumps (Bill Moore)
>  12. Re: Meziere water pumps (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  13. Re: Meziere water pumps (michael at michaelshortt.com)
>  14. Re: Meziere water pumps (Bill Moore)
>  15. Re: Meziere water pumps (Ken Green)
>  16. Re: Meziere water pumps (JEFFREY COBB)
>  17. Re: Meziere water pumps (Cullen1972)
>  18. Re: Meziere water pumps (Ken Green)
>  19. Re: Meziere water pumps (Ken Green)
>  20. Re: Meziere water pumps (Asa Jay Laughton)
>  21. Re: Meziere water pumps (Dave Londry)
>  22. Re: Meziere water pumps (Asa Jay Laughton)
>  23. Re: Meziere water pumps (Curt Hall)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:09:32 -0700
> From: david rehberg <drehberg74 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Color and resale value?
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <COL112-W324015B4CFFF3893B8DB17C5820 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi I have a set of complete stock taillights lenses are a 9 out of 10 .One of the bulb sockets needs a wire soldered.Say $175.I will be back home on Jan.22.Dave r
> 
>> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:37:49 -0800
>> From: theemonkey at yahoo.com
>> To: DeTomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Color and resale value?
>> 
>> My car used to be yellow and black with GTS flares,Revson front spoiler,and the big white us spec Pantera GTS decal on the rockers.
>> I have gotten so many more compliments on my car since i painted it British Racing Green and black.Even the local Police give the car a thumbs up!
>> Links to two  POCA album pics.One in its preferred environment,The TRACK!
>> http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=14712
>> http://poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=14700
>> I think there is a pic of the car in yellow/black on the registry website but i am not sure.
>> Vin is 5919
>> _______________________________________________
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>                         
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:24:15 -0600
> From: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Door weatherstripping
> To: MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com, adin at frontier.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CANX29aWUAd52SJgkbO6FgzW0cPhYD+1w3Q7sETpvnr-0RdPp6g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Reoriginals may be more expensive but...
> 
> I watched them measure and photograph the rubber pieces on Gary Bartley's
> Mangusta to make sure that they would find the correct parts for Mangustas.
> Sometimes you have to pay for this expertise.
> 
> And this is why we all need to support *our* vendors. The work they do for
> us is invaluable.
> 
> Jeff
> 6559
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:23:24 -0600
> From: JEFFREY COBB <zumzum at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Door weatherstripping
> To: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> Cc: MikeLDrew at aol.com, adin at frontier.net, detomaso at realbig.com
> Message-ID: <47F4763A-21EA-46BD-A32B-CA6AAA2EFC22 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> No doubt that is the way to do follow through on engineering parts for old cars.
> 
> Jeff Cobb
> Cell 225-907-4514
> 
> Jeff Cobb Auto Works
> 1316 South Acadian Thruway
> Baton Rouge
> Louisiana, 70806
> 
> www.liveoakconcours.org
> Concours, April 13-15, 2012
> 
> Work  225-343-7525
> Fax     225-343-7550
> zumzum at cox.net
> jeffcobb1 at me.com                
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Jeff Detrich wrote:
> 
>> Reoriginals may be more expensive but...
>> 
>> I watched them measure and photograph the rubber pieces on Gary Bartley's
>> Mangusta to make sure that they would find the correct parts for Mangustas.
>> Sometimes you have to pay for this expertise.
>> 
>> And this is why we all need to support *our* vendors. The work they do for
>> us is invaluable.
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 6559
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 13:42:07 -0500 (EST)
> From: JDeRyke at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Door weatherstripping
> To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
> Cc: detomaso at realbig.com, adin at frontier.net
> Message-ID: <c60a.2184c96a.3c4477ff at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> 
> On some cars, door alignment is such that more than one size of 
> weatherstripping will be needed for one one or both side to seal. I remember one 
> 'concours' restoration that needed three different thicknesses to seal the drivers 
> door while allowing both doors to open and latch with just a touch, rather 
> than a heavy slam. The other alternative is moving metal or realigning. JC 
> Whitney will not likely have various thicknesses in stock, and home 
> installation will be difficult without experience, hence I'd call the Pantera 
> vendors- especially those into restoration. My 2?- J Deryke
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:51:38 +0100
> From: "CharlesMcCall" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] New taillights
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <013e01ccd3b6$b785a740$2690f5c0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> Who was looking for new taillights a little while ago?
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some in Spain for ?1000 a set
> 
> http://www.ebay.es/itm/DE-TOMASO-PANTER-MASERATI-BOR-TAIL-LIGHTS-/200691811273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186 <http://www.ebay.es/itm/DE-TOMASO-PANTER-MASERATI-BOR-TAIL-LIGHTS-/200691811273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item2eba2a03c9> &hash=item2eba2a03c9
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 13:27:09 -0700
> From: david rehberg <drehberg74 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New taillights
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <COL112-W20A25D025EDB02540FF7FBC5820 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
> 
> 
> I have a set of stock U.S. spec tailights lenses are a 9 out of ten one bulb socket needs a wire soldered.$250.DAVE R
> 
>> From: charlesmccall at gmail.com
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:51:38 +0100
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] New taillights
>> 
>> Who was looking for new taillights a little while ago?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Here are some in Spain for ?1000 a set
>> 
>> http://www.ebay.es/itm/DE-TOMASO-PANTER-MASERATI-BOR-TAIL-LIGHTS-/200691811273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186 <http://www.ebay.es/itm/DE-TOMASO-PANTER-MASERATI-BOR-TAIL-LIGHTS-/200691811273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item2eba2a03c9> &hash=item2eba2a03c9
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>                         
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 15:29:05 -0800
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: detomaso at list.realbig.com
> Message-ID: <4F136141.90103 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with 
> their Ford 351C?
> http://www.meziere.com
> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Asa Jay
> 
> -- 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &  Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 18:57:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: richard bosch <theemonkey at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] STOCK taillight lenses wanted
> To: DetomasoList <detomaso at realbig.com>, MikeDrew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>    "B. Seib" <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
> Message-ID:
>    <1326682669.85009.YahooMailClassic at web112614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> The pair i got off EBay were from Israel of all places and are great.Although i am about to swap to some of Larry Finch's group 4 style tail lights.
> 
> --- On Sat, 1/14/12, B. Seib <oldwheel at shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> From: B. Seib <oldwheel at shaw.ca>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] STOCK taillight lenses wanted
> To: "DetomasoList" <detomaso at realbig.com>, theemonkey at yahoo.com, "Drew, Mike" <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2012, 9:22 PM
> 
> Just a word of caution. When I was shopping for these items, not all were
> the original Carello quality. There were some cheap knock-offs available
> that wouldn't make an origino-fussy Euro-dude very happy.
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> richard bosch theemonkey at yahoo.com wrote:
> Sat Jan 14 21:23:57 CST 2012
> 
> New lenses are available from several vendors on Ebay or Fiat supply
> houses.They are not that expensive versus good used lenses.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:09:37 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1326683377.27687.YahooMailNeo at web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Asa,
> ?
> ??? I have? Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.? I don't think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN WP123B.? The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do something different for warm up.? Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave Londry about that).
> ?
> ????The folks at Meziere?told me that the pump actually pumps about 33 GPM in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at 3,500 RPM.? So it's better than a good?mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open road race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move plenty of coolant.
> ?
> ????They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything less than sustained high RPM.
> ?
> Ken
> 
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with 
> their Ford 351C?
> http://www.meziere.com
> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Asa Jay
> 
> -- 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &? Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15 -0500
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEWtxWrEn9pVTd3ARP-nr=-BrTk-ko0zH+mhv0AJKh1o7NfrpQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
> 
> MICHAEL
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Asa,
>> 
>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I don't
>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>> Londry about that).
>> 
>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33 GPM
>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at 3,500
>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open road
>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>> plenty of coolant.
>> 
>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything less
>> than sustained high RPM.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>> their Ford 351C?
>> http://www.meziere.com
>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Asa Jay
>> 
>> --
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> &  Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 03:21:26 +0000
> From: "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <704547541-1326684087-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-791130328- at b27.c3.bise6.blackberry>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation. 
> 
> 
> Regards:
> Bill Moore
> Incendium Supply Ltd
> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
> Calgary, Alberta
> T3A 0Z9
> 
> 403 202 0055
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:    "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Sender:    detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> Date:    Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15 
> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
> 
> MICHAEL
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Asa,
>> 
>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I don't
>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>> Londry about that).
>> 
>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33 GPM
>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at 3,500
>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open road
>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>> plenty of coolant.
>> 
>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything less
>> than sustained high RPM.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>> their Ford 351C?
>> http://www.meziere.com
>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Asa Jay
>> 
>> --
>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>> &  Shelley Marie
>> Spokane, WA
>> ******************************
>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> 
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>> 
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>> 
>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>> DeTomaso mailing list
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>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:23:08 -0500
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: Bill at incendium.com
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Asa Jay Laughton
>    <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEWtxWojB=+evALgR0BAz+KvFp8ibkPo=x4Mg=2B+N9XnT5Scg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Right you are, I stand corrected.
> 
> MICHAEL
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
> 
>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards:
>> Bill Moore
>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>> Calgary, Alberta
>> T3A 0Z9
>> 
>> 403 202 0055
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Asa,
>>> 
>>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>> don't
>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>> Londry about that).
>>> 
>>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>> GPM
>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>> 3,500
>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>> road
>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>> plenty of coolant.
>>> 
>>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>> less
>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>> their Ford 351C?
>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Asa Jay
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>> &  Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>> ******************************
>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> 
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25 -0500
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Asa Jay Laughton
>    <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAEWtxWpUgDmCKrCfhRYyKs=3tPc4HizG_cp8zC+XmoEP=F8odg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
> breaking.
> 
> Michael
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com" <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Asa,
>>>> 
>>>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>> don't
>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>> do
>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>> Londry about that).
>>>> 
>>>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>> GPM
>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>> 3,500
>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>> road
>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>> 
>>>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>> less
>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>> &  Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> 
>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 03:29:18 +0000
> From: "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, Asa Jay Laughton
>    <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>,
>    Bill Moore <bill at incendium.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1519696149-1326684559-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-759828160- at b27.c3.bise6.blackberry>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> 
> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ? 
> 
> 
> Regards:
> Bill Moore
> Incendium Supply Ltd
> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
> Calgary, Alberta
> T3A 0Z9
> 
> 403 202 0055
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25 
> To: <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; <Bill at incendium.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
> breaking.
> 
> Michael
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com" <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Asa,
>>>> 
>>>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>> don't
>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>> do
>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>> Londry about that).
>>>> 
>>>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>> GPM
>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>> 3,500
>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>> road
>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>> 
>>>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>> less
>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>> &  Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> 
>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>> 
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>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>> 
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>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 19:32:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>,
>    "Bill at incendium.com" <Bill at incendium.com>
> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1326684722.62212.YahooMailNeo at web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> OK,
> ?
> ????Having talked to a number of people about cooling systems it seems like if you ask 3 builders you'll get 5 different answers.? I kinda think some engine just run hotter than others.? I'm hoping that going to FAST XFI controlled injection, I will be able to control the ignition timing and fuel mixture very accurately and avoid some problems.? 
> ?
> ????I also have read that modern radiator design has changed a lot of things, and that old radiator liked vey high flow rates which tend to add back pressure, and newer radiator don't care about flow rate, so a big single pass radiator may be optimal.? But faster flow is still always better.? Some one posted a tech article off the Stewart?Components web site a while back that was vyer good.
> ?
> Ken
> 
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> To: Bill at incendium.com 
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com> 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> Right you are, I stand corrected.
> 
> MICHAEL
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
> 
>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards:
>> Bill Moore
>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>> Calgary, Alberta
>> T3A 0Z9
>> 
>> 403 202 0055
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:? "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>> Date:? Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>> maybe in parallel.? Somebody educate me
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Asa,
>>> 
>>> ? ? I have? Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.? I
>> don't
>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>> WP123B.? The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>>> something different for warm up.? Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>> Londry about that).
>>> 
>>> ? ? The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>> GPM
>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>> 3,500
>>> RPM.? So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>> road
>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>> plenty of coolant.
>>> 
>>> ? ? They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>> less
>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>> their Ford 351C?
>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Asa Jay
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>> &? Shelley Marie
>>> Spokane, WA
>>> ******************************
>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> 
>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>> 
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>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
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>> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
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> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:57:55 -0600
> From: JEFFREY COBB <zumzum at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>,
>    "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>,    Asa Jay Laughton
>    <asajay at asajay.com>
> Message-ID: <8BC8A68A-22D2-4A51-BF8F-CD836C6495A1 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> Ken, 
>  Faster flow is not always better. Boundary and laminar flows set up when speed of coolant is too high. Coolant needs to transmit high temp to the lower temp radiator. The faster the coolant goes will be the slower that it can transmit temp to cool your hot block. Yes, some engines run hotter than others. Flow is important but restrictions and poor radiator performance are paramount. Would be rare that any type of fuel injection "not going to happen" would make any difference on cooling the engine. The timing will make a difference on cooling. An ideal coolant system is one that has consistent flow and an efficient radiator so hot pockets do not create and play their games of havoc on your mind and the engine.
>  I removed the two 1 1/2" coolant pipes that run from the rear engine to the radiator in my Bora and replaced them with two 2." copper pipes which aided in cooling better than switching around fans. Now the copper pipes are also a cooling tube.
> We just replaced the clutch in a 89 Porsche 911 with a Nascar engine 350/434hp? engine running up to redline of 7,800.
> The electric water pumps work great. Never run hot, tires would melt before running hot.
> Jeff Cobb
> Cell 225-907-4514
> 
> Jeff Cobb Auto Works
> 1316 South Acadian Thruway 
> Baton Rouge
> Louisiana, 70806
> 
> www.liveoakconcours.org
> Concours, April 13-15, 2012
> 
> Text   225-907-4514
> Work  225-343-7525
> Fax    225-343-7550
> zumzum at cox.net
> jeffcobb1 at me.com                
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Ken Green wrote:
> 
>> OK,
>> 
>>    Having talked to a number of people about cooling systems it seems like if you ask 3 builders you'll get 5 different answers.  I kinda think some engine just run hotter than others.  I'm hoping that going to FAST XFI controlled injection, I will be able to control the ignition timing and fuel mixture very accurately and avoid some problems.  
>> 
>>    I also have read that modern radiator design has changed a lot of things, and that old radiator liked vey high flow rates which tend to add back pressure, and newer radiator don't care about flow rate, so a big single pass radiator may be optimal.  But faster flow is still always better.  Some one posted a tech article off the Stewart Components web site a while back that was vyer good.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> To: Bill at incendium.com 
>> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com> 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> Date:  Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Asa,
>>>> 
>>>>    I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>> don't
>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>> Londry about that).
>>>> 
>>>>    The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>> GPM
>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>> 3,500
>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>> road
>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>> 
>>>>    They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>> less
>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>> &  Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> 
>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>> 
>>>> DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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>>>> 
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>>>> 
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:59:27 -0600
> From: Cullen1972 <cmccann1972 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: "Bill at incendium.com" <Bill at incendium.com>
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>,    "michael at michaelshortt.com"
>    <michael at michaelshortt.com>,    Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,
>    Bill Moore <bill at incendium.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <DF52D3E2-3CED-43D1-909F-4D71210FE12C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Bill, I have an electric waterpump on my Chevrolet. Not a Mezier but very similar billet pump. Two advantages that haven't yet been discussed are - it frees up a small amount of horsepower. Same with an electric fan vs a clutch fan. Just less drag on the motor.  I mean underdrive pullies are made to create more flow at a lesser loss of power, the next logical step is no power  loss at the expense of cooling.
> 
> I would need to freshen up on my data but I believe the gains are enough that maybe some would consider them significant. maybe 5-10 horse? Also with an electric pump and electric fans, you can circulate coolant and cool the motor when it's not running. This was popular in my drag racing days to recover more quickly on cars that ran hot, after several passes, or would at least benefit from running much colder. 
> 
> Just something to consider. 
> 
> Cullen
> 
> Sent from my iPhone.
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 9:29 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
> 
>> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ? 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards:
>> Bill Moore
>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>> Calgary, Alberta
>> T3A 0Z9
>> 
>> 403 202 0055
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25 
>> To: <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; <Bill at incendium.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
>> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
>> breaking.
>> 
>> Michael
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com" <
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards:
>>>> Bill Moore
>>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>>> T3A 0Z9
>>>> 
>>>> 403 202 0055
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>>> 
>>>> MICHAEL
>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Asa,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>>> don't
>>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>>> do
>>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>>> Londry about that).
>>>>> 
>>>>>   The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>>> GPM
>>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>>> 3,500
>>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>>> road
>>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>>> less
>>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>> &  Shelley Marie
>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>> ******************************
>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:40:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: JEFFREY COBB <zumzum at cox.net>
> Cc: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>,
>    "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>,    Asa Jay Laughton
>    <asajay at asajay.com>
> Message-ID: <1326692407.7360.YahooMailNeo at web30803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Jeff,
> ?
> ??? This is the Stewart tech article:? http://stewartcomponents.com/tech_tips/Tech_Tips_5.htm
> ?
> ????My reference to EFI was based on retarded timing and/or a lean mixtures causing an engine to run hotter.? I'm not suggesting that a perfectly tuned engine with points in the distributor and perfect carburator would run cooler with EFI, but I suspect that some overheating is because of timing or mixture errors.?
> ?
> Ken
> ?
> ????
> 
> From: JEFFREY COBB <zumzum at cox.net>
> To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> 
> Cc: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> 
> Ken, 
> ? Faster flow is not always better. Boundary and laminar flows set up when speed of coolant is too high. Coolant needs to transmit high temp to the lower temp radiator. The faster the coolant goes will be the slower that it can transmit temp to cool your hot block. Yes, some engines run hotter than others. Flow is important but restrictions and poor radiator performance are paramount. Would be rare that any type of fuel injection "not going to happen" would make any difference on cooling the engine. The timing will make a difference on cooling. An ideal coolant system is one that has consistent flow and an efficient radiator so hot pockets do not create and play their games of havoc on your mind and the engine.
> ? I removed the two 1 1/2" coolant pipes that run from the rear engine to the radiator in my Bora and replaced them with two 2." copper pipes which aided in cooling better than switching around fans. Now the copper pipes are also a cooling tube.
> We just replaced the clutch in a 89 Porsche 911 with a Nascar engine 350/434hp? engine running up to redline of 7,800.
> The electric water pumps work great. Never run hot, tires would melt before running hot.
> Jeff Cobb
> Cell 225-907-4514
> 
> Jeff Cobb Auto Works
> 1316 South Acadian Thruway 
> Baton Rouge
> Louisiana, 70806
> 
> www.liveoakconcours.org
> Concours, April 13-15, 2012
> 
> Text? 225-907-4514
> Work? 225-343-7525
> Fax? ? 225-343-7550
> zumzum at cox.net
> jeffcobb1 at me.com??? ??? ??? ??? 
> 
> On Jan 15, 2012, at 9:32 PM, Ken Green wrote:
> 
>> OK,
>> ? 
>> ? ? Having talked to a number of people about cooling systems it seems like if you ask 3 builders you'll get 5 different answers.? I kinda think some engine just run hotter than others.? I'm hoping that going to FAST XFI controlled injection, I will be able to control the ignition timing and fuel mixture very accurately and avoid some problems.? 
>> ? 
>> ? ? I also have read that modern radiator design has changed a lot of things, and that old radiator liked vey high flow rates which tend to add back pressure, and newer radiator don't care about flow rate, so a big single pass radiator may be optimal.? But faster flow is still always better.? Some one posted a tech article off the Stewart Components web site a while back that was vyer good.
>> ? 
>> Ken
>> 
>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> To: Bill at incendium.com 
>> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com> 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:? "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> Date:? Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>> maybe in parallel.? Somebody educate me
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Asa,
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? I have? Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.? I
>>> don't
>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>> WP123B.? The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do
>>>> something different for warm up.? Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>> Londry about that).
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>> GPM
>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>> 3,500
>>>> RPM.? So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>> road
>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>> less
>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>> &? Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:42:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: "Bill at incendium.com" <Bill at incendium.com>,
>    "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>,    "detomaso at realbig.com"
>    <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1326692527.67322.YahooMailNeo at web30801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> The advantages are probably more coolant flow at low RPM and less parasitic drag at high RPM.? The disadvantage is less flow at high RPM if you need the increased flow.
> ?
> Ken
> 
> From: Bill Moore <Bill at incendium.com>
> To: michael at michaelshortt.com 
> Cc: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>; Bill Moore <bill at incendium.com> 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ? 
> 
> 
> Regards:
> Bill Moore
> Incendium Supply Ltd
> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
> Calgary, Alberta
> T3A 0Z9
> 
> 403 202 0055
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25 
> To: <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; <Bill at incendium.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> 
> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
> breaking.
> 
> Michael
> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com" <
> michaelsavga at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>> 
>> MICHAEL
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore" <Bill at incendium.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:? "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>> Date:? Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>> maybe in parallel.? Somebody educate me
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green" <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Asa,
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? I have? Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.? I
>>> don't
>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>> WP123B.? The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>> do
>>>> something different for warm up.? Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>> Londry about that).
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>> GPM
>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>> 3,500
>>>> RPM.? So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>> road
>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>> 
>>>> ? ? They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>> less
>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>> 
>>>> Ken
>>>> 
>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Asa Jay
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>> &? Shelley Marie
>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>> ******************************
>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:45:06 -0800
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: detomaso at list.realbig.com
> Message-ID: <4F13B962.1010309 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Ken,
> 
> The web site mentioned something about slight modifications to that pump 
> if used on a Cleveland.  Did you have to do anything to it when used 
> with the 351C specific block plate?
> 
> Asa Jay
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &  Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> 
> On 1/15/2012 7:09 PM, Ken Green wrote:
>> Asa,
>> 
>>     I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I don't think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to do something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave Londry about that).
>> 
>>     The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33 GPM in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at 3,500 RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open road race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move plenty of coolant.
>> 
>>     They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything less than sustained high RPM.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>> their Ford 351C?
>> http://www.meziere.com
>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Asa Jay
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:54:53 -0800
> From: Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: Bill at incendium.com, Pantera List <DeTomaso at realbig.com>
> Message-ID: <4F13BBAD.6090105 at emspace.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> The 55 gpm is the free-flow rating.
> Meziere seems to be happy with the 35 gpm up to 650 hp although we don't 
> know at what duty cycle.
> I certainly prefer the 55 gpm pump for a built Cleveland.
> If you use a variable speed motor control you can
> - Toss the thermostat and lose all of that particular restriction - 
> which lets you get closer to the rated flow.
> - Use pump speed for temperature control; both set-point and warmup 
> characteristic.
> - Bring the coolant flow up to max before bringing the fans in,
>  then variable speed control the fans too.
> - let the controller run a cool-out cycle after shutdown
> The HP gain claims vary a lot, but if you are going to run high rpms
>   you don't have to find the underdrive pulley or the anti-cavitation 
> impeller
>   and if you compare it to the power to drive a cavitating pump.
> The Des Hamill Cleveland-book suggests there is 12 HP
>  going into the stock pump at 7000 rpm.
> 
> dave
> 
> 
> On 15/01/2012 7:29 PM, Bill Moore wrote:
>> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ?
>> 
>> 
>> Regards:
>> Bill Moore
>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>> Calgary, Alberta
>> T3A 0Z9
>> 
>> 403 202 0055
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25
>> To:<michael at michaelshortt.com>
>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>;<Bill at incendium.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>> 
>> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
>> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
>> breaking.
>> 
>> Michael
>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com"<
>> michaelsavga at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>>> 
>>> MICHAEL
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore"<Bill at incendium.com>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards:
>>>> Bill Moore
>>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>>> T3A 0Z9
>>>> 
>>>> 403 202 0055
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>> 
>>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>>> 
>>>> MICHAEL
>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green"<kenn_green at yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Asa,
>>>>> 
>>>>>     I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>>> don't
>>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>>> do
>>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>>> Londry about that).
>>>>> 
>>>>>     The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>>> GPM
>>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>>> 3,500
>>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>>> road
>>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>>> 
>>>>>     They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>>> less
>>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ken
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>> &   Shelley Marie
>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>> ******************************
>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>> 
>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>>> 
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:25:12 -0800
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: detomaso at list.realbig.com
> Message-ID: <4F13C2C8.2000905 at asajay.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Dave,
> 
> Does anyone -make- such a controller?
> 
> Asa Jay
> <becoming more technically challenged the older I get>
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &  Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> 
> On 1/15/2012 9:54 PM, Dave Londry wrote:
>> The 55 gpm is the free-flow rating.
>> Meziere seems to be happy with the 35 gpm up to 650 hp although we don't
>> know at what duty cycle.
>> I certainly prefer the 55 gpm pump for a built Cleveland.
>> If you use a variable speed motor control you can
>> - Toss the thermostat and lose all of that particular restriction -
>> which lets you get closer to the rated flow.
>> - Use pump speed for temperature control; both set-point and warmup
>> characteristic.
>> - Bring the coolant flow up to max before bringing the fans in,
>>   then variable speed control the fans too.
>> - let the controller run a cool-out cycle after shutdown
>> The HP gain claims vary a lot, but if you are going to run high rpms
>>    you don't have to find the underdrive pulley or the anti-cavitation
>> impeller
>>    and if you compare it to the power to drive a cavitating pump.
>> The Des Hamill Cleveland-book suggests there is 12 HP
>>   going into the stock pump at 7000 rpm.
>> 
>> dave
>> 
>> 
>> On 15/01/2012 7:29 PM, Bill Moore wrote:
>>> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25
>>> To:<michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>;<Bill at incendium.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
>>> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
>>> breaking.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com"<
>>> michaelsavga at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>>>> 
>>>> MICHAEL
>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore"<Bill at incendium.com>   wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards:
>>>>> Bill Moore
>>>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>>>> T3A 0Z9
>>>>> 
>>>>> 403 202 0055
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:   "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>>> Date:   Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>>>> maybe in parallel.  Somebody educate me
>>>>> 
>>>>> MICHAEL
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green"<kenn_green at yahoo.com>   wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Asa,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>      I have  Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.  I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>>>> WP123B.  The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>>>> do
>>>>>> something different for warm up.  Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>>>> Londry about that).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>      The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>>>> GPM
>>>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>>>> 3,500
>>>>>> RPM.  So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>>>> road
>>>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>      They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>>>> less
>>>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>> &    Shelley Marie
>>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>> ******************************
>>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 23
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 23:25:50 -0800 (PST)
> From: Curt Hall <cuvee at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: detomaso at realbig.com, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1326698750.12085.YahooMailClassic at web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> I believe Bud Williams in So-Cal has been running a Electric Water Pump in his Pantera for some time! Maybe contact him? I know he drove it to Reno last year!
> 
> --- On Sun, 1/15/12, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sunday, January 15, 2012, 10:25 PM
> 
> 
> Dave,
> 
> Does anyone -make- such a controller?
> 
> Asa Jay
> <becoming more technically challenged the older I get>
> 
> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
> &? Shelley Marie
> Spokane, WA
> ******************************
> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
> 
> 
> On 1/15/2012 9:54 PM, Dave Londry wrote:
>> The 55 gpm is the free-flow rating.
>> Meziere seems to be happy with the 35 gpm up to 650 hp although we don't
>> know at what duty cycle.
>> I certainly prefer the 55 gpm pump for a built Cleveland.
>> If you use a variable speed motor control you can
>> - Toss the thermostat and lose all of that particular restriction -
>> which lets you get closer to the rated flow.
>> - Use pump speed for temperature control; both set-point and warmup
>> characteristic.
>> - Bring the coolant flow up to max before bringing the fans in,
>> ? ? then variable speed control the fans too.
>> - let the controller run a cool-out cycle after shutdown
>> The HP gain claims vary a lot, but if you are going to run high rpms
>> ? ???you don't have to find the underdrive pulley or the anti-cavitation
>> impeller
>> ? ???and if you compare it to the power to drive a cavitating pump.
>> The Des Hamill Cleveland-book suggests there is 12 HP
>> ? ? going into the stock pump at 7000 rpm.
>> 
>> dave
>> 
>> 
>> On 15/01/2012 7:29 PM, Bill Moore wrote:
>>> I agree, what's the upside to an electrical W/P, if it provides the required coolant flow ?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards:
>>> Bill Moore
>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>> T3A 0Z9
>>> 
>>> 403 202 0055
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:26:25
>>> To:<michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>> Cc: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<detomaso at realbig.com>; Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>;<Bill at incendium.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>> 
>>> I personally wouldn't use one, I've had far more electrical malfunctions
>>> (battery, alternator, etc) than I have had waterpump failures or belts
>>> breaking.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:23 PM, "michael at michaelshortt.com"<
>>> michaelsavga at gmail.com>???wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Right you are, I stand corrected.
>>>> 
>>>> MICHAEL
>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM, "Bill Moore"<Bill at incendium.com>???wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Michael, Ken did say Parallel not series. However the size of coolant
>>>>> lines, diameter and length also enter into the equation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards:
>>>>> Bill Moore
>>>>> Incendium Supply Ltd
>>>>> Suite 416, 305-4625 Varsity Dr NW
>>>>> Calgary, Alberta
>>>>> T3A 0Z9
>>>>> 
>>>>> 403 202 0055
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:???"michael at michaelshortt.com"<michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sender: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>>> Date:???Sun, 15 Jan 2012 22:14:15
>>>>> To: Ken Green<kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>>> Cc: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>; detomaso at realbig.com<
>>>>> detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not an engineer nor do I have any training in fluid dynamics, but I
>>>>> don't see how running two in a series will move any additional coolant,
>>>>> maybe in parallel.? Somebody educate me
>>>>> 
>>>>> MICHAEL
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM, "Ken Green"<kenn_green at yahoo.com>???wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Asa,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ? ? ???I have? Meziere WP311B which is rated at 55 GPM with no load.? I
>>>>> don't
>>>>>> think they make a Cleveland specific pump, but they make a back plate PN
>>>>>> WP123B.? The original recirculation passage is covered, so you need to
>>>>> do
>>>>>> something different for warm up.? Maybe a PWM controller (talk to Dave
>>>>>> Londry about that).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ? ? ???The folks at Meziere told me that the pump actually pumps about 33
>>>>> GPM
>>>>>> in a car, and that's about what a really good mechanical pump does at
>>>>> 3,500
>>>>>> RPM.? So it's better than a good mechanical pump below 3,500, and pumps
>>>>>> less above 3,500, so it's not the hot setup if you want to run an open
>>>>> road
>>>>>> race at 5,000 RPM, but you can run two remote pumps in parallel and move
>>>>>> plenty of coolant.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ? ? ???They have a great reputation and should be very good for anything
>>>>> less
>>>>>> than sustained high RPM.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Asa Jay Laughton<asajay at asajay.com>
>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:29 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Meziere water pumps
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyone on this list installed a remote Meziere electric water pump with
>>>>>> their Ford 351C?
>>>>>> http://www.meziere.com
>>>>>> If so, what parts, part numbers did you use and how did you go about it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Asa Jay Laughton, MSgt, USAFR, Retired
>>>>>> &? ? Shelley Marie
>>>>>> Spokane, WA
>>>>>> ******************************
>>>>>> http://www.racingagainstautism.com
>>>>>> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>>>>>> http://facebook.com/racingagainstautism
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
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> End of DeTomaso Digest, Vol 90, Issue 16
> ****************************************