[DeTomaso] it wasn't that much fun

Sat Dec 1 17:32:02 EST 2012

I think there is another point. A flat wide tire; especially one with
limited sidewall needs to remain flat on the ground to have good tire
contact. Suspension geometry for racing or driving hard is often different
then that of a car set up for general road travel.

A more narrow fat tire can malform to maintain contact better in less then
optimal suspension changes. I have had this discussion many times with the
advantages of Nascar still running 15" rims with fat tires.

> Dear Michael and Jim,
>
>
>            FWIW, years ago when I bought my first set of seventeen inch
> wheels from Pantera Performance, I discussed tire selection with Dennis
> Quella.   It was his recommendation that the 315-35-17 was a better choice
> for handling than the 335-35-17.   I have been very happy with the
> handling
> of both cars using the 315s.  From what little I know, you are right that
> the 335s promote understeer by having such a big rear footprint compared
> to
> a front 245 or 255 foot print.
>
>
>                         Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: Pantdino; DeTomaso Forum
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] it wasn't that much fun
>
> There is simply IMHO ( and in the shared experiences or other knowledgable
> drivers on the forum it seems ) the conclusion that 335's just Provide way
> too much of a footprint, depending upon compound ( i have used PZero,
> Kumho
> and Pilot Sports) - too much grip, less lateral movement and do add
> understeer to the car in a disproportionate ratio to be overcome by any
> reasonable size front rubber.
> There is simply too much back there to either 4 wheel drift/slide or point
> and stab your way around in the fastest manner possible.
> The 315/35 & 245/40 combo is vastly superior on my car with 17" wheels.
> But as I said in the first email, 335's IMHO do look much cooler on the
> car.
> And if I were going to have dedicated track car, I'd seriously explore
> 295's
> as a viable performance option.
>
> Michael
> On Dec 1, 2012 4:35 PM, "Pantdino" <pantdino at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>> Why do the 335's suck?
>>
>> I would expect them to make the car understeer.  Is that what they did?
>>
>> Jim Oddie
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: michael at michaelshortt.com <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> To: spkorb <spkorb at gmail.com>
>> Cc: List Pantera <detomaso at realbig.com>
>> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2012 11:13 am
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] it wasn't that much fun
>>
>>  I discovered that as well on my first time with it on a racetrack,
>> 335/35/17 looks cool on the street, they SUCK on the racetrack.
>>
>> The 315/35/17's did much better on both the local road course tracks
>> and on both visits to the Tail of the Dragon.
>>
>> If I had a dedicated Pantera track car, I would try even smaller tires
>> in the stock body config, may 295 even, I I were going to track it on
>> a reg basis.
>>
>> The car is fairly well balanced and wants to oversteer, but that can
>> be easily countered with lots of right foot action as long as you have
>> the horses to back it up.
>>
>> When leaving the pits, on sandy, gritty pavement, a showy take off
>> will about turn you sideways, so avoid those if at all possible.  ;-)
>>
>> Having done the track thing with it, I think #1660 is retired from
>> that experience again, until a new opportunity arises worthy of the
>> risk.
>>
>> What I need is a second Pantera....
>>
>>
>> Michael Shortt
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Sean Korb <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > That's something I noticed about the Pantera shortly after getting
>> > mine running.  It handles extrordinarily well at the limits of
>> > adhesion.  It handles something awful over the limits of adhesion.
>> > My
>> > '69 Mustang was a much better ice skater on its bias ply tieres, but
>> > could never hope corner like a Pantera.
>> >
>> > You can have it all, you just ahve to collect more cars to do it.
>> >
>> > sean
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM, David in Durango
>> > <adin at frontier.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > > "A certain well-known Pantera owner and member of this forum
>> > > burned
>> > himself
>> > > right into a ground-up restoration while doing a smoky exit from a
> club
>> > > meeting many years ago.   He disappeared from view in a spectacular,
>> > > tire-spinning fashion, and nobody saw the big bang as he then lost
>> > control, hit a
>> > > concrete barricade and completely destroyed the whole right side of
> the
>> > > car--sheetmetal, wheels, suspension, the lot.   He managed to then
> duck
>> > into a
>> > > parking lot and thus was out of view when the others went to see
>> > > what
>> > made that
>> > > gawdaful sound! :>)
>> > >
>> > > The repair bill could easily have paid for another complete Pantera.
>> > >
>> > > That car has been back on the road for years, earning numerous
>> > > concours
>> > and
>> > > car show awards and delivering many thousands of happy driving
>> > > miles at
>> > the
>> > > same time.   He doesn't do burnouts anymore!
>> > >
>> > > Point being, even though the story has a happy ending, I'm sure he
> didn't
>> > > want to go there, and you don't either.   Go buy a $2000 Mustang and
> do
>> > > burnouts to your heart's content. :>)"
>> > >
>> > > I once asked "a certain well-known Pantera owner" why he painted
>> > > his
>> > car.  The above was the answer!
>> > >
>> > > Hahahaha
>> > >
>> > >
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>> >
>> > --
>> > Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
>> > '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
>> > #1382 "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>> > "Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P.
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>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael L. Shortt
>> Savannah,
>> Georgiawww.michaelshortt.commichael at michaelshortt.com912-232-9390
>>
>>
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