[DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines

Sat Apr 21 17:39:58 EDT 2012

An Ls9 presents a number of problems. The super charger uses an offset
drive that won't clear the fire wall. It would be much easier to use an LS3
and supercharge it with one of the after market super chargers that allows
for a centered drive and a rear intake. You also need to accomodate a dry
sump with an LS9 which is another space and weight issue.  If you can over
come the super charger drive problems of the LS9 you could acheiv
practically the same result for almost half the price by going with an LSA
. 560 hp and a 6 bolt main with direct injection and lots of other neat
trick stuff  (or 630HP with a pulley change) The LSA has many of the same
features as the LS9 but has a smaller super charger. You can buy an LSA for
$11,000 and change  and don't need a dry sump while an LS9 is more like
$21,000. You can also buy an LS3 fuel injected coil on cylinder ignition
that puts out 525 hp and 489 ft lb's of torque the LS 376/525  at 6300 rpm
,you can pick one up for around $7000. If 525 hp isn't enough you can
stroke it to 427 Cu inches , orIf you super charged it  you could easily be
looking at 700 + hp . The biggest problem is what are you going to do with
your ZF and all that torque?
Boyd

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Terry Appleby <taappleby at bigpond.com>wrote:

> What about an LS9?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of Corey Price
> Sent: 2012-04-21 04:06
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines
>
>
> How about a new Ecoboost V6?  No weight savings when you consider the
> turbos and all other stuff, but it has a ton of low end torque.
>
> Yeah, you lose the "vibration".
>
> Corey
>
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com> wrote:
>
> > But would sound like a lawnmower convention.
> >
> > dave
> >
> >
> > On 20/04/2012 10:34 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
> >> Since we are going out on limbs here...
> >>
> >> How about a three-rotor Wankel?  You know, the rotary put into most
> >> Mazda RX models.  Add another rotor (they make kits for this).  That
> >> would be sweet.  Add a turbo to it and you'd have an engine that would
> >> rev to 10 grand easily and have enough power to push some interesting
> >> limits.
> >>
> >> It wouldn't look like much though.
> >>
> >> Asa Jay
> >>
> >> Quoting Will Kooiman<will.kooiman at gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>> I've even considered a Ford 2.3 Turbo.
> >>>
> >>> Yep - I said it.  A 4-cylinder in a Pantera.
> >>>
> >>> The 2.3 Turbo is a really cool and simple engine.  It can do 400+ HP
> without
> >>> too much effort.  It is cheap, light, reliable, and strong.
> >>>
> >>> You lose the V8 thump-thump-thump, but you gain a nice whistle.
> >>>
> >>> It's also very small, so fitting it in the Pantera should be easy.
> >>>
> >>> If I decided to go non-351, my first choice would probably be a 347
> Boss.
> >>> My second would likely be a 2.3T.  I'd love a 392 Hemi or 429/514
> Boss, but
> >>> that's too much work for me right now.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Corey Price [mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:58 AM
> >>> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at list.realbig.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines
> >>>
> >>> 450+ hp and 400 lb-ft of torque for the Coyote...  Big improvement
> over that
> >>> '98 Mustang.  People are reporting 400 rwhp in their Mustangs with
> simple
> >>> bolt-ons and tuning.  Having driven a bunch of the new Mustangs, only
> the
> >>> Pantera kept me away!
> >>>
> >>> Yes, the coyote is ugly with all of the wiring and plastic shielding,
> but it
> >>> can be made to look great. Google the SOHC-style valve covers...  My
> blog
> >>> has a link to a Coyote engine in a Pantera.  Not too bad, and the guy
> put
> >>> 180's on it.
> >>>
> >>> Http://pantera1998.blogspot.com
> >>>
> >>> I love both the Coyote and the Cleveland, but am less of a fan of the
> other
> >>> mod motors.  What would be really cool is an all aluminum version of
> the 6.2
> >>> truck engine, like the Roush 777 concept... 7 liters, 700 hp @ 7k rpm.
> >>>
> >>> Corey
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:10 AM, "Will Kooiman"<will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> We talk about the beauty of the Pantera.  The engine is part of the
> car.
> >>> It
> >>>> may as well look the part.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I bought a 98 Mustang Cobra with the 32v 4.6.  It was pretty cool
> having
> >>> an
> >>>> engine that would rev to the moon.  It was smooth too.  I sold it
> because
> >>> it
> >>>> had no soul.  It felt like a Toyota.  A muscle car needs to feel like
> it
> >>> has
> >>>> muscle.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought I wanted a 4.6 DOHC in a Pantera, but I’ve been afraid of
> having
> >>>> another smooth running, Toyota-esque engine.  Plus, I think the rear
> of
> >>> the
> >>>> engine is ugly.  If I did one, I’d have to do something with the valve
> >>>> covers to show the plugs-through-covers/hemi look.  I’d also have to
> clean
> >>>> up the sensors and such near the rear of the valley.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m probably being too hard on the looks of a 4.6.  They don’t look
> that
> >>>> bad.  I haven’t seen the rear of a Coyote 5.0, but it looks like it
> has
> >>> more
> >>>> of a packaged EFI look.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, so what I say is ugly,
> someone
> >>> else
> >>>> might say is beauty.  I just don’t like a big complicated looking EFI
> >>>> engine.  I like simplicity + muscle.  There isn’t much that says that
> like
> >>> a
> >>>> Chrysler Hemi.  I like the look of the 429 Boss more, but it’s
> getting to
> >>>> that too-large-for-me size.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  _____
> >>>>
> >>>> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:57 AM
> >>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com; Will Kooiman; 'Thomas Tornblom'
> >>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear Will,
> >>>>
> >>>> Uh-oh. Now you've done it. You've steered the conversation into that
> >>>> subjective morass of *engine aesthetics*!! Hunker down. The opinions
> will
> >>>> fly.
> >>>>
> >>>> Very (tongue in cheek) concerned, Chuck Engles
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---- Will Kooiman<will.kooiman at gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>>> But it is ugly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would consider a Boss 302/347, a 392 Hemi or a Boss 429/514.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:
> detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> >>>> On
> >>>>> Behalf Of Thomas Tornblom
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:35 AM
> >>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Personally I would look hard at the Coyote Boss 302 crate engine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With a redline of 7500, it would solve the low gearing of my GT5
> also,
> >>>>> and 444 bhp out of a modern fuel injected production engine would be
> >>>>> good enough for me. It also seems like it would fit below the screen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thomas
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2012-04-20 06:14, ParaPantera at aol.com skrev:
> >>>>>> Personally, I think if you have the resources you should pony up to
> one
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>> those "New" MME Cleveland blocks, the list of reasons for a
> replacement
> >>>>>> block is getting long.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In a message dated 4/19/2012 11:47:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> >>>>>> kirby.schrader at gmail.com writes:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> my engine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A 4 bolt replacement cap from Will fit well and the block was line
> bored
> >>>>>> again.
> >>>>>> Everything cleaned up except the block web on both sides where the
> cap
> >>>>>> mates with the block.
> >>>>>> Driver's side is a little over .001".
> >>>>>> Passenger side is .004".
> >>>>>> 75% of the bearing surface is good... those areas aren't.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My choices:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1) Run it like it is... (maybe in Granny's old Ford...)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2) Line bore it some more, but it'd have to go a long way
> vertically to
> >>>>>> make up .004 laterally... I don't think this is really an option.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3) Bore that main more and machine a spacer. (I was not aware of
> this,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>> apparently drag racers do this all the time? Comments?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 4) Use my other block and start over. (Sigh...)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I should know about the crankshaft condition Friday or Monday.
> Getting
> >>>>> it
> >>>>>> crack tested and checked.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> New question:
> >>>>>> I had thought about this before, but dismissed it.
> >>>>>> Asked two other people and they said no way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But. I'll ask again. How about side loading with lots of belts too
> tight
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>> one side?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I don't have this scenario, but was wondering. Can you trash a main
> >>>>> bearing
> >>>>>> due to accessory belt load?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FWIW,
> >>>>>> Kirby
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> --
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