[DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines

Fri Apr 20 15:07:17 EDT 2012

He didn't build one. It was a Maserati V6 out of the Citroen aera.
It was a three seater. The idea was: In Italy it was discussed to let 16 
years old kids drive, but only with adults on board. So DeTomaso, as clever 
he was, prototyped a Pantera with three seats for the rich's. He thought it 
would be nice, to drive to the golf clubs or restaurants with the parents on 
the passenger seats. A similar car was build in France, the Matra Bagheera. 
The law lever came thrue, so only one was build.

Roland jaeckel

--------------------------------------------------
From: <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 8:56 PM
To: <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines

> I mean he ONLY built one.
>
>> Detomaso built a V6......He built one...for good reason.
>>
>>> How about a new Ecoboost V6?  No weight savings when you consider the
>>> turbos and all other stuff, but it has a ton of low end torque.
>>>
>>> Yeah, you lose the "vibration".
>>>
>>> Corey
>>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Dave Londry <davel at emspace.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But would sound like a lawnmower convention.
>>>>
>>>> dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/04/2012 10:34 AM, Asa Jay Laughton wrote:
>>>>> Since we are going out on limbs here...
>>>>>
>>>>> How about a three-rotor Wankel?  You know, the rotary put into most
>>>>> Mazda RX models.  Add another rotor (they make kits for this).  That
>>>>> would be sweet.  Add a turbo to it and you'd have an engine that would
>>>>> rev to 10 grand easily and have enough power to push some interesting
>>>>> limits.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't look like much though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Asa Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Will Kooiman<will.kooiman at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've even considered a Ford 2.3 Turbo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep - I said it.  A 4-cylinder in a Pantera.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 2.3 Turbo is a really cool and simple engine.  It can do 400+ HP
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> too much effort.  It is cheap, light, reliable, and strong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You lose the V8 thump-thump-thump, but you gain a nice whistle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's also very small, so fitting it in the Pantera should be easy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I decided to go non-351, my first choice would probably be a 347
>>>>>> Boss.
>>>>>> My second would likely be a 2.3T.  I'd love a 392 Hemi or 429/514
>>>>>> Boss, but
>>>>>> that's too much work for me right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Corey Price [mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:58 AM
>>>>>> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at list.realbig.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 450+ hp and 400 lb-ft of torque for the Coyote...  Big improvement
>>>>>> over that
>>>>>> '98 Mustang.  People are reporting 400 rwhp in their Mustangs with
>>>>>> simple
>>>>>> bolt-ons and tuning.  Having driven a bunch of the new Mustangs, only
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Pantera kept me away!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the coyote is ugly with all of the wiring and plastic shielding,
>>>>>> but it
>>>>>> can be made to look great. Google the SOHC-style valve covers...  My
>>>>>> blog
>>>>>> has a link to a Coyote engine in a Pantera.  Not too bad, and the guy
>>>>>> put
>>>>>> 180's on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Http://pantera1998.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love both the Coyote and the Cleveland, but am less of a fan of the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> mod motors.  What would be really cool is an all aluminum version of
>>>>>> the 6.2
>>>>>> truck engine, like the Roush 777 concept... 7 liters, 700 hp @ 7k
>>>>>> rpm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corey
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 9:10 AM, "Will Kooiman"<will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We talk about the beauty of the Pantera.  The engine is part of the
>>>>>>> car.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> may as well look the part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought a 98 Mustang Cobra with the 32v 4.6.  It was pretty cool
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> engine that would rev to the moon.  It was smooth too.  I sold it
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> had no soul.  It felt like a Toyota.  A muscle car needs to feel
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> muscle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought I wanted a 4.6 DOHC in a Pantera, but I’ve been afraid of
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> another smooth running, Toyota-esque engine.  Plus, I think the rear
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> engine is ugly.  If I did one, I’d have to do something with the
>>>>>>> valve
>>>>>>> covers to show the plugs-through-covers/hemi look.  I’d also have to
>>>>>>> clean
>>>>>>> up the sensors and such near the rear of the valley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m probably being too hard on the looks of a 4.6.  They don’t look
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> bad.  I haven’t seen the rear of a Coyote 5.0, but it looks like it
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> of a packaged EFI look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder, so what I say is ugly,
>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> else
>>>>>>> might say is beauty.  I just don’t like a big complicated looking
>>>>>>> EFI
>>>>>>> engine.  I like simplicity + muscle.  There isn’t much that says
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Chrysler Hemi.  I like the look of the 429 Boss more, but it’s
>>>>>>> getting to
>>>>>>> that too-large-for-me size.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _____
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: cengles at cox.net [mailto:cengles at cox.net]
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 9:57 AM
>>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com; Will Kooiman; 'Thomas Tornblom'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...tasteful engines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Will,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uh-oh. Now you've done it. You've steered the conversation into that
>>>>>>> subjective morass of *engine aesthetics*!! Hunker down. The opinions
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> fly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very (tongue in cheek) concerned, Chuck Engles
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---- Will Kooiman<will.kooiman at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> But it is ugly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would consider a Boss 302/347, a 392 Hemi or a Boss 429/514.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
>>>>>>>> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Thomas Tornblom
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:35 AM
>>>>>>>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] The continuing saga of...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally I would look hard at the Coyote Boss 302 crate engine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With a redline of 7500, it would solve the low gearing of my GT5
>>>>>>>> also,
>>>>>>>> and 444 bhp out of a modern fuel injected production engine would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> good enough for me. It also seems like it would fit below the
>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2012-04-20 06:14, ParaPantera at aol.com skrev:
>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think if you have the resources you should pony up
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> those "New" MME Cleveland blocks, the list of reasons for a
>>>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>>>>>> block is getting long.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a message dated 4/19/2012 11:47:35 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>>>>>>>> kirby.schrader at gmail.com writes:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> my engine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A 4 bolt replacement cap from Will fit well and the block was line
>>>>>>>>> bored
>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>> Everything cleaned up except the block web on both sides where the
>>>>>>>>> cap
>>>>>>>>> mates with the block.
>>>>>>>>> Driver's side is a little over .001".
>>>>>>>>> Passenger side is .004".
>>>>>>>>> 75% of the bearing surface is good... those areas aren't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My choices:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) Run it like it is... (maybe in Granny's old Ford...)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2) Line bore it some more, but it'd have to go a long way
>>>>>>>>> vertically to
>>>>>>>>> make up .004 laterally... I don't think this is really an option.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3) Bore that main more and machine a spacer. (I was not aware of
>>>>>>>>> this,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> apparently drag racers do this all the time? Comments?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4) Use my other block and start over. (Sigh...)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I should know about the crankshaft condition Friday or Monday.
>>>>>>>>> Getting
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> crack tested and checked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> New question:
>>>>>>>>> I had thought about this before, but dismissed it.
>>>>>>>>> Asked two other people and they said no way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But. I'll ask again. How about side loading with lots of belts too
>>>>>>>>> tight
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> one side?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have this scenario, but was wondering. Can you trash a
>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>> bearing
>>>>>>>>> due to accessory belt load?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> FWIW,
>>>>>>>>> Kirby
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Real life: Thomas Törnblom Email: thomas at hax.se
>>>>>>>> Snail mail: Banvallsvägen 14 Phone: +46 18 32 31 18
>>>>>>>> S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden Mobile: +46 76 209 8320
>>>>>>>>
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