[DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
doug sedon
sedond at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 31 17:16:15 EDT 2011
those articless (about the uaw, not about teachers) are 4 & 6 years old. the info i got is recent...
doug s.,
#2602
>________________________________
>From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>Cc: "wkooiman at earthlink.net" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>
>
>According to the Indianapolis Star:
>Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the average reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour, GM says. - September 26, 2007 UNITED AUTO WORKERS OFF THE JOB, Striking back at globalization. By Ted Evanoff
>
>According to the National Review:
>Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."
>Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners,
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>but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.
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>But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
>"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."
>The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).
>It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.
>- November 29, 2005, Labor Pains, Detroit needs to play by market rules. By Henry Payne
>Source(s):
>The Indianapolis Star and the National Review
>
>On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 4:34 PM, doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>ya, i pulled it from a website. if it's bogus, it's cuz it was from a CONSERWATIVE website. ;~)
>>
>>
>>http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/06/25/number-of-the-week-u-s-teachers-hours-among-worlds-longest/
>>
>>
>>doug s.,
>>#2602
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: "wkooiman at earthlink.net" <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
>>>To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>; Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:22 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>
>>>We have several teachers in the family.
>>>
>>>They absolutely do not spend 1913 hours working per year. That figure is completely bogus. I know you pulled it from a website but it is BS.
>>>
>>>The first few years they teach, they create lesson plans, and then they reuse their lesson plans each year. They have to
grade tests, but they are almost completely off on weekends, summers, and holidays.
>>>
>>>It's also bogus to assume salaried workers work 2,000 hours a year. I work closer to 3,000, and that doesn't include time spent in airplanes and hotels. I think I hit 4,000 last year, even though I get paid for 2,000.
>>>
>>>I don't agree that all teachers are bad. I think in general they are pretty good. The biggest problem is the parents.
>>>
>>>My wife donates time to a local school. It's the Montgomery County Pet Partners program. She brings the dog to the school and kids that are having problems read to the dog. She completely turned around a kid last year that was on a path to prison. His family had been brought to court twice for truancy. The kid's brother had been killed, and his parents had taught him to look for drugs in the house. With a home life like that, what do you expect out of the
kid? You have to have a license to drive, but they let anyone spit out kids like watermelon seeds.
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>>>>Sent: Oct 31, 2011 12:11 PM
>>>>To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>, GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>, "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>
>>>>average teacher salary in the usa is <$42k. average teacher hours per year is 1913 vs 1932 for other workers. yes, even tho many teachers get summers off, they still average only 19hrs/year less than everyone else's hours. 1/3 of 'em suck? not sure how scientific that stat is, but even if true, it doesn't sound any worse than any other profession. i bet the percentage of sucky lawyers is even higher.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>the average uaw worker gets about $28/hour plus about $10/hour in benefits. your figures are bs and have been passed off as gospel for far too long. yes, some uaw members make more, and yes, some pull down $100k/year, when they work 20-30 hours of overtime/week.
>>>>
>>>>it is so tiresome hearing such pure bs spouted as
facts. :>/
>>>>
>>>>doug s.,
>>>>#2602
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>; GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>Sent:
Monday, October 31, 2011 1:29 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Doug,
>>>>>
>>>>> First off, I think we all agree that the government should not bail out companies that are managed for short term profits and high executive pay. But I disagree with your other statements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Teachers make big bucks for half time jobs, and make huge bucks when you consider the benefits. At least 1/3 of my daughter's teachers were turkeys who couldn't hold a real job if they had to, and when we complained, the answer was always the same, tenure. 20 years ago I shared an office with another engineer whose wife was a high school teacher, and hated her job, but made about $90K, and now has a killer pension. Sorry, but I've seen way too many real examples to ever think
teachers are underpaid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Japanese companies can build cars here, pay $50 an hour to non-UAW workers, and make a profit. GM etc. sends work to China because the UAW wants $75 an hour and really stupid work rules to increase costs even more. Who's the bad guy in this picture? Have you looked at the work rules the UAW wants? They kill companies and then the unions cry because the jobs are gone.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:34 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>the bad guy in the picture is the govt for refusing to hold the corporations' feet to the fire - the govt should not prowide welfare to failing company's. the govt should not, thru its tax & regulation policies, be rewarding american companies to move off-shore.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>keep looking,
before you know it, unemployment in america will be over 30%; and in a few years, the chinese will be running everything...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>doug s.
>>>>>
>>>>>From: Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>; GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 11:16 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Doug,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last time I looked, I have a choice if I buy a GM, a Ford, or a used car, no one is holding a gun to my head. Also, the last time I looked, if I don't want to pay taxes, I go to jail. Who's the bad guy in the picture?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>To: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>; "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
>>>>>>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:54 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>somebody needs to bring the corporations to their
>>>> knees. cuz if it doesn't happen, then the corporations, not the unions, will bring the usa to its knees. hell, it's already happening. after all, corporations are people, too...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>doug
s.,
>>>>>>#2602
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>________________________________
>>>>>>>From: GW <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>>>>>>>To: michael at michaelshortt.com
>>>>>>>Cc: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>; "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:32 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Union words I have heard which
shows exactly what unions are "We are going to bring this country to it's knees!".....And they do...and then the industry in this country looks like Detroit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Unions rob the worker too. Just one more nickel per dollar. It's no big deal. Again and again. And then the pension is not there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>michael at michaelshortt.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really admire the CEO of Quantas wbo shut down the whole airline this week because the unions were bleeding it dry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really feel for the NBA owners, but they caused this to
>>>> happen by overpaying the players to start with. Personally, the NBA can die for all I care.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unions had a time in history, but the ideals were polluted by politics and the mob. Anytime massive sums of money are involved it creates an opportunity for the degradation of morals and honor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Children shouldn't work in sweat shops, workplaces should be safe to avoid disasters like the Triangle Shirt factory fire, Miners shouldn't breathe coal dust, unions helped change these things before government agencies like OSHA existed.
>>>>>>>> They served a purpose that should never be forgotten.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Shortt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2011 6:01 PM, "doug sedon" <sedond at yahoo.com <mailto:sedond at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it is not the unions that are causing the problem w/companies'
>>>>>>>> greed and their going off-shore. what is wrong w/the idea that an
>>>>>>>> honest working class blue collar worker can support a family on a
>>>>>>>> decent wage? unions made this possible. the problem we are
>>>>>>>> having is that the federal government deregulation has allowed
>>>>>>>> companies to move offshore, cutting their costs substantially,
>>>>>>>> while keeping the prices of the products the same. great for the
>>>>>>>> rich stockholders and ceo's, screw everyone else. if these
>>>>>>>> companies were
regulated so as to not be able to reap the
>>>> profits
>>>>>>>> of slave-wage-rate labor, no off-shore safety/enwironmental
>>>>>>>> regulation, etc.; then there would not have been such a huge
>>>>>>>> exodus of american manufacturing to third-world countries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> interesting article, tracking the fate of america's middle class,
>>>>>>>> and its unions:
>>>>>>>> http://talkingunion.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/decline-in-unions-a-leading-factor-in-income-inequality/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regarding ceo's being overpaid, i support, where possible,
buying
>>>>>>>> from non-american companies, who use american labor. non-american
>>>>>>>> companies typically pay their ceo's ~30 times what their average
>>>>>>>> workers earn; w/american companies this figure is more
>>>> like 300
>>>>>>>> times the salary of the average worker. here's a guide for
>>>>>>>> wehicles and where they're made. notice many foreign auto
>>>>>>>> companies have "off-shored" a lot of the work to america. but at
>>>>>>>> least here, there are reasonable safety/enwironmental standards,
>>>>>>>> etc., and the workers are paid more than subsistence wages...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/content/db/b-db-autos.shtml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ymmv,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> doug s.,
>>>>>>>> #2602
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>--
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>
>Michael L. Shortt
>Savannah, Georgia
>www.michaelshortt.com
>michael at michaelshortt.com
>912-232-9390
>
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