[DeTomaso] unions?

[GW]

It is nearly impossible to see where the unions stop and our government 
starts.

We all know the democrat housing bubble crashed this economy. Several 
tried to stop it including Bush who tried 13x and brought it to a vote 
2x which was slapped down by the dems. But when did the bubble burst? 
When Obama was seen as the obvious victor to the elections, stockholders 
began draining the market. Their not dumb. They saw what was coming and 
it became a game of who can get their money out fast before the markets 
drop. The good economy we had under Bush was gone!

There was a week where McCain gained momentum. If you look at that week 
the market began to recover. As the excitement for McCain dropped and 
obama became the obvious winner, the markets went into a nose dive.

Do you remember a time when Walmart pushed "Made in the USA"? Do you 
remember when it stopped? It stopped when Hillary Clinton got on 
Walmarts board of directors. She set Walmart up with Chinese vendors and 
changed the direction of Walmart and stopped the "Made in the USA" campaign.

When Hillary was campaigning it was found one of her major backers were 
the Chinese. When Hillary became secretary of state what was the first 
thing she did? Hillary went to China to secure loans for the bail 
outs...aka government expansion and union pensions. You can still see 
the videos of Hillary in China. Hillary stood up at several meetings in 
China and said "We are reseting relations" (A childish dig at Bush she 
kept repeating at the time; remember the reset button she carried 
around) She continued to say "We are no longer interested in your human 
rights issues, we are just interested in securing funds for bail outs!"

The liberals understand spending in the past has pulled bad economies 
up. When they don't understand is what spending. During WWII much 
industry was working for the government. The government pumped a huge 
amount of money into the country for the war. When the war was over, 
industry had to re-start for post war production but industry 
(corporations) had money because of war funding. What happened next? We 
had an economic boom!!!

In the 50's Eisenhower nearly bankrupting this country building 
highways. But what did the money do? It went to corporations building 
infrastructure but more importantly, it opened a door to commerce this 
country never had. The highways opened the doors for companies 
nationwide to do business like they never had before. This created the 
boom called the Roaring 50's!

It is common knowledge that wars (no there is no real comparison of the 
Iraq conflict to a real war) and infrastructure expansion such as 
highways both increase our national debt substantially but also kick 
start the economy.

The liberals see that and think spending money kick starts the economy 
but look at what the liberals have done over the last few years? 
Expanded government and shored up the union base. Much of the expanded 
government went to states which not only expanded the state government 
but required that when the stimulus money ran out in a year or two the 
states would have to continue the funding!!! It is really a sly move. 
The government spends a one time check to make your state government 
larger and then expects the states to keep it larger when the government 
money runs out. Expansion of government shifting the cost. Now the 
stimulous 2 obama is touting it trying to shore up the states and unions 
longer so the states don't drop the funding.

The spending from WWII and from the highway system launched some of the 
best economies this country ahs ever had. What did the stimulus spending 
do? Shored up unions, expanded government, and stopped this economy in 
it';s tracks. Instead of helping people and corporations create jobs, it 
expected the corporations and and those who create jobs to pay more of 
their fair share.

In effect the stimulus not only burned a buttload of cash for no good 
reason but it brought this economy to it's knees. Now we have debt our 
children and grand children will never able to pay. There is no way we 
can inflate our way out of what was spent this time around!!

There is little if any discernible difference between unions and a 
liberal government.










Ken Green wrote:
> Doug,
>  
>         The auto workers scored billions in the government bailout of GM, and scored again on getting out of Nationalized Health care (AKA Obamacare).  Tenured union teachers get to keep their jobs unless they kill or rape a student.  It sounds like the government has sold out to the unions more than to corporations.  AND, Wall Street folks gave more to dems than to reps.  
>  
>         But I think the problem is BIG government, regardless of who is in the White House.  When the government spends money, the middle class gets screwed.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
> To: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
> Cc: de tomaso digest <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>
> michael sez:
> 1. Unions were once upon a time a good thing, I think that time has passed.
> doug s. sez:
> - unfortunately, cuz government has sold out to the corporations - aiding and abetting their goals in item #'s 2 & 3 below, not regulating them for the benefit of all society - unions are one of the few tools left.
>
>
> michael sez:
> 2. Corporations exist to create wealth for shareholders.  It is 
> management's sole duty to maximize profits, however they are not 
> required to be good citizens or have any loyalty to our country. I feel 
> this is a fundamental flaw and should be of prime consideration to those who invest personally and on behalf of others with pension funds, 
> 401ks, etc.  
> 3. Management should be compensated based on real profits, not 
> valuations, or other means of manipulating numbers to look like income.  REAL MONEY.  I like a formula that is open for all to see.
> doug s. sez:
> - i agree w/the above items 2 & 3.  and i am ok w/it, too.  as long as there's something to keep them reined in.  the govt used to do it, but that's been effectively eliminated over the past 30 years.  now the govt is in the corporations' pockets; and there's no one left to control them...  :>/  certainly most of those who inwest are not gonna do it, or are ewen capable of doing it if they wanted to.  management, for the most part compensates itself totally unregulated - it's an incestuous little club, w/everyone sitting on everyone else's executive boards, scratching each other's backs, paying each other ludicrous amounts of money, and paying them even more when they get fired and are losing money.
>
>
> michael sez:
> 4. Union workers in many cases 
> need a reality check.  There are dudes who work for GM who make $65.00 
> an hour to clean The bathroom because they have been doing it for 20 
> years.  WISE TF UP. A job has a value, period.  Just because you're too 
> stupid, dumb or lazy to do anything else doesn't mean that your job is a career.  Either cross train, get an education or move on.   Just 
> because you're still there doesn't make the original 15.00 an hour job 
> any more valuable.
> doug s. sez:
> - of course no one should be making $65 an hour to clean the bathroom.  and, seriously, i don't think this is really what's happening.  i am sure there are a small minority of union folks at gm who are overpaid for what they do.  but, that's not the problem.  for the most part, unions simply help their members keep up w/inflation...  and i certainly believe that they would not be needed so much - if the government were able to better regulate corporations.
>
> of course any corporation will off-shore its work if it is allowed to have children work in sweat shops, allowed to have unsafe workplaces w/no health ins, no overtime, pay its workers $100/month instead of $100/day, no workmen's comp, no unemployment ins or social security, let miners 
> breathe coal dust, etc etc, etc.  if the federal government does not put a stop to it, who will?!?  or do you think american workers should simply agree to accept these same working conditions here?  then we can be "competitive"!  yippee!  we can go back to the late 1800's!  yippee!  give the corporations more power, less regulation!  yippee!  you know, when the unions gained some power to help the workers?  we could go full circle!  :>/
>
>
> unfortunately, i see wery little in the govt to turn things around.  initially, barack talked a good game, so much so that the oligarchs started calling him a communist or a socialist.  many of his "conservative" detractors still do.  i wish!?!  he's sold out to big biz in a huge way - the banks, wall street, the insurance companies, the oil companies, the drug mfr's...  and his "opposition"?  all they want is to deregulate the corporations even more!?!  ya, it's all this "regulation" that caused the economic meltdown!?!  let the corporations have more power, less regulation, cut taxes even more!  ya, let's put out the fire w/gasoline!?!  :>/
>
>
> ymmv,
>
> doug s.,
> #2602
>
>
>   
>> ________________________________
>> From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>> To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>; "gow2 at rc-tech.net" <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>>
>>
>> Doug, 
>> To be honest, I'm unsure of your position on the viability of unions.
>> Let me be clear about my views.
>> 1. Unions were once upon a time a good thing, I think that time has passed.
>> 2. Corporations exist to create wealth for shareholders.  It is management's sole duty to maximize profits, however they are not required to be good citizens or have any loyalty to our country. I feel this is a fundamental flaw and should be of prime consideration to those who invest personally and on behalf of others with pension funds, 401ks, etc.  
>> 3. Management should be compensated based on real profits, not valuations, or other means of manipulating numbers to look like income.  REAL MONEY.  I like a formula that is open for all to see.
>> 4. Union workers in many cases need a reality check.  There are dudes who work for GM who make $65.00 an hour to clean The bathroom because they have been doing it for 20 years.  WISE TF UP. A job has a value, period.  Just because you're too stupid, dumb or lazy to do anything else doesn't mean that your job is a career.  Either cross train, get an education or move on.   Just because you're still there doesn't make the original 15.00 an hour job any more valuable.
>> Michael Shortt
>>
>>     
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