[DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))

[Ken Green]

Doug,
 
        The auto workers scored billions in the government bailout of GM, and scored again on getting out of Nationalized Health care (AKA Obamacare).  Tenured union teachers get to keep their jobs unless they kill or rape a student.  It sounds like the government has sold out to the unions more than to corporations.  AND, Wall Street folks gave more to dems than to reps.  
 
        But I think the problem is BIG government, regardless of who is in the White House.  When the government spends money, the middle class gets screwed.


________________________________
From: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
To: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Cc: de tomaso digest <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))

michael sez:
1. Unions were once upon a time a good thing, I think that time has passed.
doug s. sez:
- unfortunately, cuz government has sold out to the corporations - aiding and abetting their goals in item #'s 2 & 3 below, not regulating them for the benefit of all society - unions are one of the few tools left.


michael sez:
2. Corporations exist to create wealth for shareholders.  It is 
management's sole duty to maximize profits, however they are not 
required to be good citizens or have any loyalty to our country. I feel 
this is a fundamental flaw and should be of prime consideration to those who invest personally and on behalf of others with pension funds, 
401ks, etc.  
3. Management should be compensated based on real profits, not 
valuations, or other means of manipulating numbers to look like income.  REAL MONEY.  I like a formula that is open for all to see.
doug s. sez:
- i agree w/the above items 2 & 3.  and i am ok w/it, too.  as long as there's something to keep them reined in.  the govt used to do it, but that's been effectively eliminated over the past 30 years.  now the govt is in the corporations' pockets; and there's no one left to control them...  :>/  certainly most of those who inwest are not gonna do it, or are ewen capable of doing it if they wanted to.  management, for the most part compensates itself totally unregulated - it's an incestuous little club, w/everyone sitting on everyone else's executive boards, scratching each other's backs, paying each other ludicrous amounts of money, and paying them even more when they get fired and are losing money.


michael sez:
4. Union workers in many cases 
need a reality check.  There are dudes who work for GM who make $65.00 
an hour to clean The bathroom because they have been doing it for 20 
years.  WISE TF UP. A job has a value, period.  Just because you're too 
stupid, dumb or lazy to do anything else doesn't mean that your job is a career.  Either cross train, get an education or move on.   Just 
because you're still there doesn't make the original 15.00 an hour job 
any more valuable.
doug s. sez:
- of course no one should be making $65 an hour to clean the bathroom.  and, seriously, i don't think this is really what's happening.  i am sure there are a small minority of union folks at gm who are overpaid for what they do.  but, that's not the problem.  for the most part, unions simply help their members keep up w/inflation...  and i certainly believe that they would not be needed so much - if the government were able to better regulate corporations.

of course any corporation will off-shore its work if it is allowed to have children work in sweat shops, allowed to have unsafe workplaces w/no health ins, no overtime, pay its workers $100/month instead of $100/day, no workmen's comp, no unemployment ins or social security, let miners 
breathe coal dust, etc etc, etc.  if the federal government does not put a stop to it, who will?!?  or do you think american workers should simply agree to accept these same working conditions here?  then we can be "competitive"!  yippee!  we can go back to the late 1800's!  yippee!  give the corporations more power, less regulation!  yippee!  you know, when the unions gained some power to help the workers?  we could go full circle!  :>/


unfortunately, i see wery little in the govt to turn things around.  initially, barack talked a good game, so much so that the oligarchs started calling him a communist or a socialist.  many of his "conservative" detractors still do.  i wish!?!  he's sold out to big biz in a huge way - the banks, wall street, the insurance companies, the oil companies, the drug mfr's...  and his "opposition"?  all they want is to deregulate the corporations even more!?!  ya, it's all this "regulation" that caused the economic meltdown!?!  let the corporations have more power, less regulation, cut taxes even more!  ya, let's put out the fire w/gasoline!?!  :>/


ymmv,

doug s.,
#2602


>________________________________
>From: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
>To: doug sedon <sedond at yahoo.com>
>Cc: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>; "gow2 at rc-tech.net" <gow2 at rc-tech.net>
>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] unions? (was: Re: Something to shoot for (NPC))
>
>
>Doug, 
>To be honest, I'm unsure of your position on the viability of unions.
>Let me be clear about my views.
>1. Unions were once upon a time a good thing, I think that time has passed.
>2. Corporations exist to create wealth for shareholders.  It is management's sole duty to maximize profits, however they are not required to be good citizens or have any loyalty to our country. I feel this is a fundamental flaw and should be of prime consideration to those who invest personally and on behalf of others with pension funds, 401ks, etc.  
>3. Management should be compensated based on real profits, not valuations, or other means of manipulating numbers to look like income.  REAL MONEY.  I like a formula that is open for all to see.
>4. Union workers in many cases need a reality check.  There are dudes who work for GM who make $65.00 an hour to clean The bathroom because they have been doing it for 20 years.  WISE TF UP. A job has a value, period.  Just because you're too stupid, dumb or lazy to do anything else doesn't mean that your job is a career.  Either cross train, get an education or move on.   Just because you're still there doesn't make the original 15.00 an hour job any more valuable.
>Michael Shortt
>
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