[DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection

Wed Oct 5 21:19:41 EDT 2011

That's a perfect description of EFI.  People sometimes forget this is a hobby.

I might do EFI one of these days, but I will be doing it for the joy of tinkering around.

I switched to Webers because my Holley was too boring.  It started every time, got 19-21mpg, made great power, and basically did everything a carburetor is supposed to do.

My Webers ran very well right out of the box.  They cut mpg to about 15, but the power is unreal.  It feels like it has 100hp more.  I haven't spent any time tuning them, so I suspect that I will improve on the 15mpg.  If I get bored with the Webers, that's when I might try EFI.

The only negatives with Webers are cutting the decklid, and the slippery slope of making one more modification.  My car is still dead, and that's how it will remain until I get the time to finish it.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Rich <hoppe1 at cox.net>
>Sent: Oct 5, 2011 8:05 PM
>To: Steve Hawkins <shawkins777 at comcast.net>, 'Roland Jaeckel' <pantera874 at t-online.de>, 'Bill Lewis' <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>, detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>
>Ok
>I don't respond very often.
>I have an electromotive tec 3 unit in one of my cars.
>I wanted to learn about EFI so that is why I did it.
>I have to say one car I built with a carb ran good from the first day I 
>started the engine.
>It took three different EFI systems for me to get my car running to where I 
>am.
>I had it on a dyno for a week.  Ouch!
>Is it perfect? -- no.
>If you want EFI and not a learning experience-- have a vendor do it.
>I wanted to learn the new technology and just like in the 60's ( yeah I am 
>old) I had to learn the hard way with carbs and points and cams .....
>I am glad I did it.   I learned a lot an now feel I am even knowledgeable to 
>how new cars run.
>After the EFI experience, I now have a lot more respect for carbs.  They 
>really deal with a lot of engine changes.
>The precise system of EFI has a hard time with the programing to meet a 
>specific engine needs that make it painfull to get right.
>Carbs are a lot easier and so is a pencil and paper compared to learning a 
>computer.
>But it is the age we live in.
>Rich Hoppe
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Steve Hawkins
>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 3:36 PM
>To: 'Roland Jaeckel' ; 'Bill Lewis' ; detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>
>You would be wrong.
>
>Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
>Behalf Of Roland Jaeckel
>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:41 AM
>To: Bill Lewis; detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>
>
>That's why i have vintage cars. They still use technology, i can fix
>myself..
>I don't think, that there is any Pantera with a cleveland out there with a
>100% functional fuel injection.
>100% means, it has to work like a proper tuned new carb.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Bill Lewis" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>
>To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>
>
>>
>> CARB MAN can now go nationwide!    HA  HA  HA  HAAAAAA!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:13:07 -0400
>>> From: cengles at cox.net
>>> To: justingreisberg at hotmail.com
>>> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Justin,
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing your tale of EFI woe. It sounds like the nightmare
>>> I
>>> have feared I would suffer if I took the plunge. I know that these "bolt
>>> on" EFI systems are out there. I know that they supposedly work. I know
>>> that techno savvy owners have functioning systems that are more
>>> complicated than the bolt on versions.
>>>
>>> I also know that the old Holley Pro-jection system didn't work well.
>>> I
>>> know of a Pantera owner in the northwest that pursued EFI on his 351C
>>> with frustrating results I know of a Pantera owner in OKC with EFI and
>>> lots of driveability problems. These problems can also be found on carbs,
>
>>> I know, but the PITA factor and the cost of screwing around with EFI
>>> versus carbs persuades me to stick with carbs for the near and
>>> intermediate future.
>>>
>>> Yeah. I am a Luddite in this regard.
>>>
>>> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Justin Greisberg <justingreisberg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Everyone might be sick by now of hearing my ongoing troubles with
>>> > EFI,
>>> > but I am hoping I can help save someone else the pain. $2500, 2 years
>>> > of tuning, well over 100 miles of driving a car in circles around the
>>> > block. Have come to a point where problem can not be fixed by me. I
>>> > have professional products retrotek powerjection 1 system. Older system
>
>>> > (2 years) but the techs at the company can not offer me any help. Can
>>> > not fix driveability issues (goes way lean under mild acceleration, so
>>> > accelerating from a stop light leads to severe bogging and just about
>>> > stalling in the middle of an intersection.) I have asked for a refund
>>> > or a free upgrade to their new system, powerjection 3, so that maybe
>>> > they can provide better tech support (which would be a downgrade since
>>> > new system is cheaper than old system), but they stopped returning my
>>> > calls.
>>> >
>>> > I have a 351 cleveland with CHI heads, roller cam, CHI intake.
>>> > makes
>>> > 8-12 inches vacuum at idle, which makes it harder for fuel injection
>>> > system to work.
>>> >
>>> > I now am throwing away the entire system and starting over with a
>>> > carb.
>>> > Have to redo entire fuel system to non-EFI pump. close to $1000 to
>>> > spend on carb and fuel pump and plumbing now. Totally disgusted. I am
>>> > not made of money, and my hobby has become a source of endless stress.
>>> > The EFI was supposed to make cold starting easier, but never worked
>>> > properly. Was supposed to just start right up when you turn the key.
>>> > well, sometimes it does. cold idling was supposed to be better than an
>>> > electric choke. Doesn't do it, though. Was supposed to make driving
>>> > better, but just fouled multiple spark plugs and totally carbon fouled
>>> > the combustion chambers of my new heads and engine. Was supposed to be
>>> > easily tuneable by computer, but not so easy, even for a knowledgeable
>>> > person like me. If anyone has questions about these issues, feel free
>>> > to ask me, since I understand these issues well. It is just that this
>>> > system doesn't work as designed.
>>> >
>>> > I know others have found some success with these systems, but I
>>> > strongly recommend staying away. Others have said I should just find a
>>> > tuner - but I don't know how much more time I can give this. I have a
>>> > job, and taking a day off from work to go to some tuner (flatbed the
>>> > car who knows where!) becomes an expensive option for a system that is
>>> > clearly advertised as just put it on and drive! And if the techs at the
>
>>> > company can't fix it, then why would anyone else be able to???
>>> >
>>> > Anyone want to buy a slightly used EFI system? for sale, cheap? NO
>>> > REFUNDS justin
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