[DeTomaso] EFI

Wed Oct 5 17:56:20 EDT 2011

I remember it well....The cheerleaders were always more FUN then the Prom Queen! Baw ha ha ha

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Larry - Ohio Time Corp <larry at ohiotimecorp.com> wrote:

From: Larry - Ohio Time Corp <larry at ohiotimecorp.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] EFI
To: michael at michaelshortt.com, "'Jerry R Knotts'" <knottsj at galstar.com>
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com, "'Mikael'" <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 11:47 AM

<< landing the prom queen for your prom date?>>

Speaking of "Young Larry" (only guy I know on the list that did drive his
Pantera to the prom)is he still around?  Last time I heard from him is when
he stayed at my house a few days...5 years ago??

He was doing a lot with the HID head lights.

Good guy, anyone heard from him?

Larry - Cleveland

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 12:55 PM
To: Jerry R Knotts
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com; Mikael
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] EFI

Not to sound like a smarta#$, but why don't y'all just use a simple
intake and carb temporarily so you can drive and enjoy your cars.

I mean if the whole point is to make them more "road-friendly", seems
to me like you have accomplished the polar opposite with these
systems.

I would truly love a set of eight funnels sticking up off the top of
my engine, I could go with Webers ( talk about a sync and linkage
headache)

or I could go with an EFI system and get the same look with supposedly
increased performance, but in either case I have to cut the decklid

for clearance and I won't do that.

Unless you are like Kirby or Mike Trusty and are a genius at this
whole EFI thing, why reinvent the wheel?

Is it the challenge of doing it, landing the prom queen for your prom date?

Why not go with one of the proven cheerleaders, Holley, she can be a
Demon I've also heard.

Better to go with something that actually puts out than have the
coolest looking one that just sits at home doing doing.

Michael

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Jerry R Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
> I have the usual Project From Hell.  I decided in my infinite wisdom to
put
> a 393 Windsor in my '95 mustang.  Cutting out large pieces of the
> frustarting story, I jump to the laptop dyno tunning in Omaha at BJs.  We
> thought something was wrong with the MAF since I was using an EEC tuner
> board.  I had to adjust the flow numbers much differently than I had
> previously calculate.  About the time we were making headway one of the
> multidisc clutches burned up from the torque.  Later found it had been put
> in backwards and had stripped the female splines out of half of it.  Took
> the car back to Oklahoma and worked on the tuning for about 6 months,  In
> that time I found the the EEC tuner that I had bough from the manufacturer
> did not data log as it was supposed to so I bought an auxilary data
logger.
> Had extreme trouble getting the idle to work.  After about a year I took
it
> to OKC for another dyno tune.  At the tuners we found that the engine shop
> in Omaha had iinstalled a set of 30 lb injectors instead of the 36lbers I
> had taken.  Also that the EEC tuner working on a W4HO box that I bought at
> the Omaha was for an auto and worked quite differently from the T4MO box
> that I had had.  Later I found the addresses for both decoded boxes were
> incorrect so a number of the changes that I had been working on wer not
what
> the boxes used for the combustion process.  There is much more to the stoy
> but the car still sits in the back of the barn with the idea I will start
> work on it again.
>
> On the other hand the box I modified with LSTuner runs like stink in my
LS1
> RX7.
>
> Go figure,
> Sitting here with my sharp stick waiting to polk it in my eye,
> jerry knotts
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
> To: "Mikael" <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
> Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] EFI
>
>
>> Good suggestions. Sometimes there are really strange things. I am trying
>> to
>> tune my Pantera and was having difficulties. Turns out my 13 year old MAP
>> sensor is reading 45kpa when it should be saying 101. And it seems to be
>> intermittent at that. Makes for difficult tuning.
>>
>> As a comment though... most systems I know about and have read about are
>> only closed loop during cruise.
>> I could be wrong, but they all switch off closed loop during full
throttle
>> and fall back to a map.
>>
>> These so called 'self learning' systems are all BS as far as I'm
>> concerned.
>> You have to get close manually before you can go closed loop. There's no
>> way
>> the system will compensate for something that's completely out in left
>> field. No way. I don't care what you read in the marketing blah blah
blah.
>>
>> This is the same as a carburetor. You have to pick the right type of
carb,
>> CFM and jetting to get close and then you start tuning for YOUR engine. I
>> bought a carburetor once that was supposed to work as is. My car would
>> hardly run.
>>
>> And remember... when a new EFI system is put on a production car, the car
>> companies literally have a full team of engineers and technicians who run
>> the engine on a dyno and then take the cars out to all parts of the
>> country
>> and run them through tests in all conditions. Altitude, cold, hot, humid,
>> etc..
>> Why? To set up the maps and feedback loops so the system works as you
>> would
>> expect it to when you buy it off the showroom floor.
>>
>> Ever seen the documentary on the development of the Ford GT? They
couldn't
>> even get the engine to START the first time around!
>> The 'EFI expert' of Ford ended up using what I think I remember hearing
as
>> a
>> program from a Crown Vic! Just to get it running! Then they started
>> tuning.
>>
>> So even the experts have to work hard to get a EFI system set up the
first
>> time around.
>>
>> And we're talking about each an every one of us having a completely
>> different engine. Different heads, cams, compression, bore, stroke, blah,
>> blah, blah.... so each and every map and setup will be different.
>>
>> OK, I'm off my soapbox now... I like my EFI setups and will continue to
>> use
>> them.
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 09:06, Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> Suggestions: I was sitting here thinking, can I suggest some remedy for
>>> the
>>> lean and severe bogging. Justin, I'm sure you've done all the sensible
>>> things, so I'll give you a few totally weird suggestions, forgive me.
>>> -Some EFI systems work strange if they don't get enough juice
>>> (electricity).
>>> Is your alternator fine? Grounding? Are there grounding wires from
engine
>>> and gearbox to chassis?
>>> -I once had a car that did the same, but with a carb. It turned out to
be
>>> a
>>> wire that was neither isolated nor fastened properly, so the g-force
made
>>> it
>>> short against the engine
>>> I know, weird suggestions.
>>>
>>> Some comments, from many angles, from a carb fan:
>>> -Not many people can feel the difference between a properly tuned EFI
and
>>> a
>>> properly tuned carb
>>> -On non-fuel-economy cars, I'd never do EFI. Why add complexity? Why
>>> spend
>>> money?
>>> -All carbs I've had have on an O2 meter shown a little lean when
>>> accelerating, and still have excellent throttle response
>>> -Buying things partly because the company claims to have experts sitting
>>> waiting to take your call is very optimistic. These are slightly trained
>>> call center employees, with targets on number of calls per day. My
>>> experience is that you quite soon know more about their product than
they
>>> do
>>>
>>> Question: Are any of those EFIs closed loop? That's how OEM works, and
if
>>> it
>>> is, then tuning should be unnecessary
>>>
>>> Mikael
>>>
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-- 

Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390

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