[DeTomaso] EFI

[Bill Lewis]

Giggling!!  --   (CARB MAN)



> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:38:20 -0500
> From: kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> To: mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] EFI
> 
> Good suggestions. Sometimes there are really strange things. I am trying to
> tune my Pantera and was having difficulties. Turns out my 13 year old MAP
> sensor is reading 45kpa when it should be saying 101. And it seems to be
> intermittent at that. Makes for difficult tuning.
> 
> As a comment though... most systems I know about and have read about are
> only closed loop during cruise.
> I could be wrong, but they all switch off closed loop during full throttle
> and fall back to a map.
> 
> These so called 'self learning' systems are all BS as far as I'm concerned.
> You have to get close manually before you can go closed loop. There's no way
> the system will compensate for something that's completely out in left
> field. No way. I don't care what you read in the marketing blah blah blah.
> 
> This is the same as a carburetor. You have to pick the right type of carb,
> CFM and jetting to get close and then you start tuning for YOUR engine. I
> bought a carburetor once that was supposed to work as is. My car would
> hardly run.
> 
> And remember... when a new EFI system is put on a production car, the car
> companies literally have a full team of engineers and technicians who run
> the engine on a dyno and then take the cars out to all parts of the country
> and run them through tests in all conditions. Altitude, cold, hot, humid,
> etc..
> Why? To set up the maps and feedback loops so the system works as you would
> expect it to when you buy it off the showroom floor.
> 
> Ever seen the documentary on the development of the Ford GT? They couldn't
> even get the engine to START the first time around!
> The 'EFI expert' of Ford ended up using what I think I remember hearing as a
> program from a Crown Vic! Just to get it running! Then they started tuning.
> 
> So even the experts have to work hard to get a EFI system set up the first
> time around.
> 
> And we're talking about each an every one of us having a completely
> different engine. Different heads, cams, compression, bore, stroke, blah,
> blah, blah.... so each and every map and setup will be different.
> 
> OK, I'm off my soapbox now... I like my EFI setups and will continue to use
> them.
> 
> FWIW,
> Kirby
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 09:06, Mikael <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk> wrote:
> 
> > Suggestions: I was sitting here thinking, can I suggest some remedy for the
> > lean and severe bogging. Justin, I'm sure you've done all the sensible
> > things, so I'll give you a few totally weird suggestions, forgive me.
> > -Some EFI systems work strange if they don't get enough juice
> > (electricity).
> > Is your alternator fine? Grounding? Are there grounding wires from engine
> > and gearbox to chassis?
> > -I once had a car that did the same, but with a carb. It turned out to be a
> > wire that was neither isolated nor fastened properly, so the g-force made
> > it
> > short against the engine
> > I know, weird suggestions.
> >
> > Some comments, from many angles, from a carb fan:
> > -Not many people can feel the difference between a properly tuned EFI and a
> > properly tuned carb
> > -On non-fuel-economy cars, I'd never do EFI. Why add complexity? Why spend
> > money?
> > -All carbs I've had have on an O2 meter shown a little lean when
> > accelerating, and still have excellent throttle response
> > -Buying things partly because the company claims to have experts sitting
> > waiting to take your call is very optimistic. These are slightly trained
> > call center employees, with targets on number of calls per day. My
> > experience is that you quite soon know more about their product than they
> > do
> >
> > Question: Are any of those EFIs closed loop? That's how OEM works, and if
> > it
> > is, then tuning should be unnecessary
> >
> > Mikael
> >
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