[DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection

Tue Oct 4 18:15:26 EDT 2011

To add to what Kirby has said, I have been running the old TEC 2 Electromotive engine management system on my Pantera for 7 years, with zero problems.  When it bites the dust I will probably go to the newest Electromotive system. 

I had someone set up the basic tune for me, and I took it from there. When I make any major changes (adding nitrous/methanol intercooling), I do an initial tune on a dyno, hiring a tuner I know to assist in order to minimize the cost of the dyno rental.

It goes without saying that if the installation is faulty, you will have problems.  

With a basic knowledge of how A/F ratio and spark advance correlate, tuning the engine is not that difficult.  With the logging facility most good EFI/ignition systems have, it is easy to look at the "history" of a run, evaluate what needs to be changed and then make the changes.  

While I still consider myself a novice compared to the guys that do this for a living, I make my own changes easily with my attached PC.    

For a naturally aspirated engine, most of the engine management systems also do a good job of auto tuning as one uses their car.    

If installation of a multiport fuel injection system is more than one wants to handle, The throttle body EFI systems do a fantastic job as well, and have the benefits that will provide the capability to optimize performance across the entire load curve. 

Dick Koch - Atlanta

-----Original Message-----
>From: Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2011 3:08 PM
>To: detomaso at realbig.com
>Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>
>This is with the new Electromotive system.
>I was completely happy with the old Haltech system for many years.
>
>I should note that the Pantera has been running a little over a week. Goes
>like stink.
>
>The Electromotive system in my GT40 is also working well. OK, as many people
>know, I did have issues with a defective harness in the beginning, but once
>that was tracked down and replaced, no problem.
>
>Several people have driven and ridden in the GT40 and nobody that I can
>think of wasn't impressed.
>So I consider it 100%.
>
>The Pantera will probably take me another two weekends. Unfortunately, I
>still work for a living...
>  :-)
>
>I might even do a dyno, but I've found my 'seat of the pants' methodology in
>conjunction with a wideband O2 sensor works pretty well. It's cheaper, but
>it just takes longer.
>
>FWIW,
>Kirby
>
>
>On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 12:12, Roland Jaeckel <pantera874 at t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> **
>> Tuning in progress means maximum 90 %
>>
>>  *From:* Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:55 PM
>> *To:* Roland Jaeckel <pantera874 at t-online.de>
>> *Cc:* detomaso at realbig.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>>
>> Roland,
>>
>> I have been running IR EFI on my Pantera since 2000.
>> Cast iron Cleveland.
>> What do you consider '100% functional'?
>>
>> I drove it work everyday for 2 years. Ran it on the track.
>>
>> Yes, a couple of months ago the old Haltech F9a let all its smoke out, but
>> I have it running again with a TEC GT.
>> Tuning in progress.
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:41, Roland Jaeckel <pantera874 at t-online.de>wrote:
>>
>>> That's why i have vintage cars. They still use technology, i can fix
>>> myself..
>>> I don't think, that there is any Pantera with a cleveland out there with a
>>> 100% functional fuel injection.
>>> 100% means, it has to work like a proper tuned new carb.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bill Lewis" <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > CARB MAN can now go nationwide!    HA  HA  HA  HAAAAAA!!!!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:13:07 -0400
>>> >> From: cengles at cox.net
>>> >> To: justingreisberg at hotmail.com
>>> >> CC: detomaso at realbig.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] final verduct on self-tuning fuel injection
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Justin,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for sharing your tale of EFI woe. It sounds like the nightmare I
>>> >> have feared I would suffer if I took the plunge. I know that these
>>> "bolt
>>> >> on" EFI systems are out there. I know that they supposedly work. I know
>>> >> that techno savvy owners have functioning systems that are more
>>> >> complicated than the bolt on versions.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also know that the old Holley Pro-jection system didn't work well. I
>>> >> know of a Pantera owner in the northwest that pursued EFI on his 351C
>>> >> with frustrating results I know of a Pantera owner in OKC with EFI and
>>> >> lots of driveability problems. These problems can also be found on
>>> carbs,
>>> >> I know, but the PITA factor and the cost of screwing around with EFI
>>> >> versus carbs persuades me to stick with carbs for the near and
>>> >> intermediate future.
>>> >>
>>> >> Yeah. I am a Luddite in this regard.
>>> >>
>>> >> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ---- Justin Greisberg <justingreisberg at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Everyone might be sick by now of hearing my ongoing troubles with
>>> EFI,
>>> >> > but I am hoping I can help save someone else the pain. $2500, 2 years
>>> >> > of tuning, well over 100 miles of driving a car in circles around the
>>> >> > block. Have come to a point where problem can not be fixed by me. I
>>> >> > have professional products retrotek powerjection 1 system. Older
>>> system
>>> >> > (2 years) but the techs at the company can not offer me any help. Can
>>> >> > not fix driveability issues (goes way lean under mild acceleration,
>>> so
>>> >> > accelerating from a stop light leads to severe bogging and just about
>>> >> > stalling in the middle of an intersection.) I have asked for a refund
>>> >> > or a free upgrade to their new system, powerjection 3, so that maybe
>>> >> > they can provide better tech support (which would be a downgrade
>>> since
>>> >> > new system is cheaper than old system), but they stopped returning my
>>> >> > calls.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I have a 351 cleveland with CHI heads, roller cam, CHI intake. makes
>>> >> > 8-12 inches vacuum at idle, which makes it harder for fuel injection
>>> >> > system to work.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I now am throwing away the entire system and starting over with a
>>> carb.
>>> >> > Have to redo entire fuel system to non-EFI pump. close to $1000 to
>>> >> > spend on carb and fuel pump and plumbing now. Totally disgusted. I am
>>> >> > not made of money, and my hobby has become a source of endless
>>> stress.
>>> >> > The EFI was supposed to make cold starting easier, but never worked
>>> >> > properly. Was supposed to just start right up when you turn the key.
>>> >> > well, sometimes it does. cold idling was supposed to be better than
>>> an
>>> >> > electric choke. Doesn't do it, though. Was supposed to make driving
>>> >> > better, but just fouled multiple spark plugs and totally carbon
>>> fouled
>>> >> > the combustion chambers of my new heads and engine. Was supposed to
>>> be
>>> >> > easily tuneable by computer, but not so easy, even for a
>>> knowledgeable
>>> >> > person like me. If anyone has questions about these issues, feel free
>>> >> > to ask me, since I understand these issues well. It is just that this
>>> >> > system doesn't work as designed.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I know others have found some success with these systems, but I
>>> >> > strongly recommend staying away. Others have said I should just find
>>> a
>>> >> > tuner - but I don't know how much more time I can give this. I have a
>>> >> > job, and taking a day off from work to go to some tuner (flatbed the
>>> >> > car who knows where!) becomes an expensive option for a system that
>>> is
>>> >> > clearly advertised as just put it on and drive! And if the techs at
>>> the
>>> >> > company can't fix it, then why would anyone else be able to???
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Anyone want to buy a slightly used EFI system? for sale, cheap? NO
>>> >> > REFUNDS justin
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