[DeTomaso] DeTomaso Digest, Vol 82, Issue 11

Wed May 11 08:26:38 EDT 2011

Message 19

The car is a Ferrari 365 GTC/4 (1971)
regards

Etienne
Pantera THPN1DO1324

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of detomaso-request at realbig.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:00 PM
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: DeTomaso Digest, Vol 82, Issue 11

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Today's Topics:

   1. NPC - Where are vehicles made (Mikael)
   2. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Bill Lewis)
   3. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Szwab,Konrad,HOUSTON,IT)
   4. NPC - Yenko Pontiac T/A (Larry Finch)
   5. NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions (Cullen McCann)
   6.  NPC - Where are vehicles made (Larry Finch)
   7. Fun Rally rememberances (P6746 at aol.com)
   8. A real "barn find" Pantera (Charles McCall)
   9. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (detomasoregistry at gmail.com)
  10. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Charles McCall)
  11. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Bill Lewis)
  12. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (detomasoregistry at gmail.com)
  13. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Bill Lewis)
  14. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Curt Hall)
  15. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Charles McCall)
  16. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Bill Lewis)
  17. Re: Great Down Under Pantera racing photos (robert stewart)
  18. Re: Great Down Under Pantera racing photos (tmshinro at aol.com)
  19. Re: Great Down Under Pantera racing photos (Arjun Ghosh-Dastidar)
  20. Re: Great Down Under Pantera racing photos
      (michael at michaelshortt.com)
  21.  NPC - Where are vehicles made (Larry Finch)
  22. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Curt Hall)
  23. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (John Bentley)
  24. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (JJD1010 at aol.com)
  25. Re: Great Down Under Pantera racing photos (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
  26. Re: NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions
      (wkooiman at earthlink.net)
  27. Re: NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions
      (gow2 at rc-tech.net)
  28. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Bill Lewis)
  29. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Sean Korb)
  30. Fun Rally Deadline (detomasoregistry at gmail.com)
  31. Re: NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions
      (MikeLDrew at aol.com)
  32. 2011 Summer Summit Open Invitation June 3-5, NC
      (michael at michaelshortt.com)
  33. Re: NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions (GW)
  34. Re: NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions
      ( Charles Engles)
  35. FYI: free Valvoline synthetic racing oil NPC ( Charles Engles)
  36.  NPC - Where are vehicles made (Larry Finch)
  37. Re: NPC - Where are vehicles made (Christopher Kimball)
  38. Re: A real "barn find" Pantera (Charles McCall)
  39. Re: REALLY, TOTALLY NPC - Where are vehicles made (Larry Finch)
  40. Re: REALLY, TOTALLY NPC - Where are vehicles made (Curt Hall)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:11:52 +0200
From: "Mikael" <mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk>
Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID: <008101cc0f13$d5556340$800029c0$@mail.tele.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I'm neither for nor against "Buy American", hard to have an opinion about
from over here. I do tell my colleagues to "buy American", when their Mini
is in the garage for cold start problems for the 5th time, and my then Jeep
GC never had a problem. J

But on whether to buy from one's own country or not, I want to share a
story. I worked for Eastman Kodak from 1988 to 1998. Kodak had a bad time,
kept laying off people. I then read a book about it, called Changing Focus.
In that book was stories about families that had always worked for Eastman
Kodak, it was the place to work if you lived in the Rochester area. And you
would work there all your life. Husband and wife had been laid off, and
didn't get work for years, had to sell cars and later house, very tragic. 

And now to the point. That man and wife couple were critical of their fellow
Americans, because they bought Fujitsu film, why wouldn't their fellow
Americans support American companies and workers, and buy Kodak? A valid
question I guess. But on the next page it was mentioned that they had to
sell their 3 cars: A Volvo, a Saab and a BMW. They clearly couldn't be
satisfied with anything being produced in the US at that time, but they
expected their fellow Americans to buy Kodak film, even if Fujitsu may have
been better value (which is was, due to subsidies from the Japanese
government) 

"Buy Danish!" We're big in bacon, windmills, insulin and container shipping
J

Mikael

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:25:54 +0000
From: Bill Lewis <lotus0005 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W55731F2AA83C3BADBF1AC9BB870 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Mikael, are the windmills, "American style," or "Danish style?"   We have
quite a few of the former down here in Texas!   --Bill (lots of wind in
Texas, too) Lewis

> From: mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:11:52 +0200
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made
> 
> I'm neither for nor against "Buy American", hard to have an opinion about
> from over here. I do tell my colleagues to "buy American", when their Mini
> is in the garage for cold start problems for the 5th time, and my then
Jeep
> GC never had a problem. J
> 
>  
> 
> But on whether to buy from one's own country or not, I want to share a
> story. I worked for Eastman Kodak from 1988 to 1998. Kodak had a bad time,
> kept laying off people. I then read a book about it, called Changing
Focus.
> In that book was stories about families that had always worked for Eastman
> Kodak, it was the place to work if you lived in the Rochester area. And
you
> would work there all your life. Husband and wife had been laid off, and
> didn't get work for years, had to sell cars and later house, very tragic. 
> 
>  
> 
> And now to the point. That man and wife couple were critical of their
fellow
> Americans, because they bought Fujitsu film, why wouldn't their fellow
> Americans support American companies and workers, and buy Kodak? A valid
> question I guess. But on the next page it was mentioned that they had to
> sell their 3 cars: A Volvo, a Saab and a BMW. They clearly couldn't be
> satisfied with anything being produced in the US at that time, but they
> expected their fellow Americans to buy Kodak film, even if Fujitsu may
have
> been better value (which is was, due to subsidies from the Japanese
> government) 
> 
>  
> 
> "Buy Danish!" We're big in bacon, windmills, insulin and container
shipping
> J
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Mikael
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> 
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
> 
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:51:19 -0500
From: "Szwab,Konrad,HOUSTON,IT" <Konrad.Szwab at AlconLabs.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made
To: "detomaso at realbig.com" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID:
	<89A0AF10144D2045A89347DF7977A73A10DEC1BF4E at USFTW4121.alconnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There are ways to rationalize any decision. I believe this trend of
exporting jobs and importing poverty will continue and eventually the
country will crash. Many questions will be asked and the "blame" will be
spread all around as it is being tried with any failure of leadership
lately.

I have heard the coined term "systemic failure" and no one is held
accountable. Well, the ones that were supposed to take care of the "system"
should be tried and executed.

To me, the trend is quite criminal in nature by those in positions of power
that choose short term material gain over the long term healthiness of the
US economy. No, I am not talking about buying $2 trinkets or a 20K$ car, but
exporting millions of manufacturing jobs, facilitating wholesale industrial
espionage or, worse, choosing to manufacture military devices in third party
countries that then sell the same designs that were initiated here, to our
enemies, as China or Russia are.

We have a duty to protect the US from all enemies, foreign or domestic. When
whole cities are abandoned because there are no jobs, people kill themselves
in desperation or are kicked in the street with their families, what is the
difference between those that chose to steer the companies they lead in that
direction to make one more million dollars over the billions they ALREADY
have or a terrorist detonating a bomb ?

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Lewis
Sent: 2011-05-10 08:26
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made

Mikael, are the windmills, "American style," or "Danish style?"   We have
quite a few of the former down here in Texas!   --Bill (lots of wind in
Texas, too) Lewis

> From: mikael_hass at mail.tele.dk
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 15:11:52 +0200
> Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC - Where are vehicles made
>
> I'm neither for nor against "Buy American", hard to have an opinion about
> from over here. I do tell my colleagues to "buy American", when their Mini
> is in the garage for cold start problems for the 5th time, and my then
Jeep
> GC never had a problem. J
>
>
>
> But on whether to buy from one's own country or not, I want to share a
> story. I worked for Eastman Kodak from 1988 to 1998. Kodak had a bad time,
> kept laying off people. I then read a book about it, called Changing
Focus.
> In that book was stories about families that had always worked for Eastman
> Kodak, it was the place to work if you lived in the Rochester area. And
you
> would work there all your life. Husband and wife had been laid off, and
> didn't get work for years, had to sell cars and later house, very tragic.
>
>
>
> And now to the point. That man and wife couple were critical of their
fellow
> Americans, because they bought Fujitsu film, why wouldn't their fellow
> Americans support American companies and workers, and buy Kodak? A valid
> question I guess. But on the next page it was mentioned that they had to
> sell their 3 cars: A Volvo, a Saab and a BMW. They clearly couldn't be
> satisfied with anything being produced in the US at that time, but they
> expected their fellow Americans to buy Kodak film, even if Fujitsu may
have
> been better value (which is was, due to subsidies from the Japanese
> government)
>
>
>
> "Buy Danish!" We're big in bacon, windmills, insulin and container
shipping
> J
>
>
>
>
>
> Mikael
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> Archive Search Engine Now Available at http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at list.realbig.com
> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:21:03 -0400
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC - Yenko Pontiac T/A
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Message-ID: <8CDDD34A0D28E9F-1128-4F8E at webmail-d096.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 And you (and I) thought all Yenko modified cars were Chebbies...

http://tinyurl.com/Yenko-Pontiac

Larry - I've already learned something today. Back to bed........

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 09:39:01 -0500
From: "Cullen McCann" <cmccann1972 at gmail.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] NPC - Barn Finds that could be worth Millions
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID: <007901cc0f20$01dde070$0599a150$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

This may just be of interest to a few people, but I LOVE barn finds..its a
history thing for me, volumes of moments lost in history.peoples dreams
coming true once or shattered later..love of machines detrailed by wars, or
sidetracked from loss.just fascinates me. Yes I watch American pickers and
yes I watch chasing classic cars.love that stuff. 

I also found this interesting:

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/autos/1105/gallery.barn_finds/index.html

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:01:40 -0400
From: Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso]  NPC - Where are vehicles made
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Message-ID: <8CDDD3A4D577853-1128-59F7 at webmail-d096.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

 Konrad wrote -

...When whole cities are abandoned because there are no jobs, people kill
themselves in desperation
or are kicked in the street with their families, what is the difference
between those that chose to
steer the companies they lead in that direction to make one more million
dollars over the billions
they ALREADY have or a terrorist detonating a bomb ?
---------------------

What is the difference?

One action is done in the name of Hatred.

The other action is done in the name of Capitalism.

Capitalism by itself, in any country,  is not by any necessity a bad thing.

But when executed solely for the financial benefit of those directly -
management - or indirectly - investors -
affected, with no thought as to the other results to Country, fellow
citizens, or employees, it can indeed see its
final results morph into something not too easily differentiated from the
results displayed by terrorism.

Sadly, too many in this country, and no doubt others, view their freedom to
run their business 'legally' (with
no thought given to 'morally') as total justification for their actions and
any results that may consequently appear.

How different things might be if we had only wholly embraced these
sentiments:

"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you -
ask what you can do for your country."

Larry -

If you have 3-4  minutes, you can read the full JFK inaugural speech here -

http://tinyurl.com/JFK-inaugural

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 13:21:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: P6746 at aol.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Fun Rally rememberances
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Message-ID: <344e7.182e5c02.3aface05 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

So here's the story.  While  getting into Fun Rally mode, I recall sitting 
at my spot at the bar at the  Plaza greeting all the great friends I hadn't 
seen for a year.  Then I  realized that many of them were no longer with us.

 I then assumed  that I'm probably not the only one missing them, so I put 
together a list of the  late individuals that I could remember.  I plan to 
have this list on  display at this year's Fun Rally for others to look at
and 
contemplate.  If  anyone has a name they think should be added to the list, 
please let me  know.    Bob Reid   
Names to  remember 
The following is a  list of deceased individuals who were once frequent and 
noticeable attendees of  the POCA Fun Rally.  Please study  the list, 
hopefully it will bring back some pleasant memories, possibly even  start a 
conversation or two. 
Fred Bloss 
Howard Bourquin 
Stan Cooper 
Spencer Cottingham 
Homer Dean 
Phil Dye 
Bob Escalle 
Perry Foster 
Roger Gossett 
Gary Hall 
Tony Harvey 
Ahti Kaend 
Mark Obermeier 
Glen Pascal 
Don  Peak 
George Peloquin 
Jerry Pentaleri 
Joe Perrucci 
Gary Powley 
Bill Santos 
Orville  Sass 
Wayne Stevens 
Grant Stockwell 
Rob Stuhr 
Judy Waite 
Gary Wilson 
Ellis  Woumnn

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 20:14:21 +0200
From: Charles McCall <charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Subject: [DeTomaso] A real "barn find" Pantera
To: "'De Tomaso List'" <detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID: <7AB3B939FBEB40D686E9A74498C61C49 at Sisteplant.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Speaking of barn finds.

On various car forums here in Spain, I've heard rumors of an abandoned
DeTomaso Pantera a little over an hour from where I live. 

It was sounding like urban legend - there were some grainy photos every now
and then, but nothing to be able to determine if they were taken in Spain,
in Europe, in the US. 

Nobody had any first-hand knowledge of the car. It was all "a friend of my
cousin's neighbor saw it once.." So trying to get more information was
difficult, if not impossible. 

A couple of weeks ago, while attending a car rally, someone mentioned the
famous "abandoned Pantera", and said that they knew someone who had actually
seen it. It was supposed to be in decent shape, but missing the engine and
transaxle.

They sent me the GPS coordinates of a garage where the car was supposedly
located. No street name, no garage description, just GPS coordinates. 

I plugged the coordinates into my GPS to get an idea of where the car was,
and about 2 weeks ago, on the way to work, stopped by. I spent roughly an
hour walking up and down the street looking for a garage that looked like it
might have a Pantera inside, but since I didn't really know what I was
looking for, it was difficult. The street was full of multi-story apartment
buildings with their large, common underground parking lots. After an hour I
gave up and went to work. 

But I kept thinking about the car all day, and since it was just before
Easter break, a 5 day weekend, I decided to give it another shot in the
afternoon.

I went back to the same place, parked, and looked around. There were roughy
6 garages within sight, so I just hung around. When I saw a car coming out
of one, I ran up and tapped on the window. I was wearing a suit and tie, so
I didn't look too homeless-like, and they rolled down the window. I asked if
they had seen a red sports car abandoned in their garage. They looked at me
strangely and said "no", rolled up the window a little quicker, and headed
off. 

I repeated this strategy with car number two, about 15 minutes later. No
luck. At 15 minutes per garage, this could take a while. It could also be
difficult to explain to the cops exactly what I was trying to do. 

I saw a young couple come out of a third garage, so I went up and asked
them. 

"Yes, it's been there for years!" they said. 

"Cool!", said I. "Would you mind letting me into the garage so that I can
leave a note and take some pictures?"

They looked at me rather suspiciously and mumbled something about being in a
hurry and shuffled off. But I had located the car!

It only took another 10 minutes for a car to come out - while the garage
door was open, I scooted in behind before the door could close. 

And there it was! A Pantera!

It was completely covered in dust, and as mentioned I was wearing a white
dress shirt and a suit, so I couldn't really touch it too much. I also
couldn't find the lights, so I only had the emergency lights to go by.
Stumbling around I found the switch, but it really didn't help - the garage
was dark. Far too dark to be able to see the serial number. I opened the
front hood (the doors were unlocked), wiped off the serial number area with
my finger and took a photo, hoping to be able to read the number in the
photo. 

I was unsure as to whether it was an original GT5 or a conversion. The
interior has the old style AC controls, and the rear delta wing isn't stock.
There are also some funky air intake things on the rear decklid that aren't
stock. However it wears original Campys GT5-style, the antenna is located in
the Euro-location, and not in the US front fender location, and the rear
license plate area is wide, for a Euro-plate. So I was thinking that it was
at least a post Ford-era pantera, but was hoping the photo would shed light
on it. 

Interestingly enough, it has BRITISH license plates! WTF? 

It had the original spare up front, which is pretty rare. 

Unfortuantely I couldn't read the serial number in the photo, but the first
number sure looks like a "9" to me, which would make it a late-model, real
GT5. Later analysis of the date code shows it to be a 1984 car. 

Overall condition appeared to be decent - at least two dents in the fenders,
but I didn't see rust oozing out from every pore, although in the dark and
with the dust, who knows? 

Now the tricky part - getting out of the garage. Without a key, you don't
get in or out. Some kids were passing by, so I asked them if they knew
anything about the car. they told me that it had been there for years and
that nobody knew anything about it. They were kind enough to let me out, or
I'd still be there now!

Pix may be seen here: http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=30786

I managed to get the phone number of the garage management and gave them a
call the next day. Here's where the trail cooled off. 

"Yes", they know the owner. "Yes", someone is paying community fees and
taxes on that spot. "No", the car isn't abandoned. He knows perfectly well
that it is there. "No", he isn't interested in selling it. 

The best I could get has a half-hearted commitment to pass my name and phone
number on to the owner to have him call me to see what the deal is. I don't
exactly have high hopes. 

As it has British plates, I contacted the British club, but they don't know
anything about it or recognize the car. 

So it is still sitting there, still collecting dust. And it appears it will
continue to do so indefinitely :-(

That was my adventure from a couple weeks ago. A real "barn/garage find",
although I couldn't do anything with it.

Charles McCall

1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375

"Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"

 <http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323>
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 11:26:55 -0700
From: detomasoregistry at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] A real "barn find" Pantera
To: "'Charles McCall'" <charlesmccall at gmail.com>,	"'De Tomaso List'"
	<detomaso at realbig.com>
Message-ID:

<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAAgNzaHR515Pl7C2a/8manvCgAAAEAAAAKSMgkddCVhFt1wn+RSw
a2QBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Way cool...

A little spit and you could have had the VIN.  Let me do a little research.

Chuck